Wagon Wiring Woes. (is there a diagram?!)

[ByStickel]

So, I picked up a pretty solid Southeastern wagon a few weeks ago, and I just started looking into the wiring. Yikes. I'm finding plenty of non-functioning items, jumper wires, twisted splices, etc, etc. It's really bad.

 

Is there a diagram that shows the wagon-specific wiring? I searched but couldn't find anything. I'm using the Axsys diagram for sedans, but am running into big differences in the wagon.

 

The current project is to restore brake lights. On my wagon, the WB (white with black) brake wires become 'g' (light green) after the first connector, Then, when they get to the 6-pin connector at the firewall, behind the gauges, the 'g' wires become 'gR' and 'gB' and appear to travel to the steering column switch for the turn signals.

 

I assume that somewhere in there, a single wire comes off of the two light green wires in order to allow the brake switch to energize them, but I can't find anything.

 

I do have a mysterious GR wire that's energized all of the time, and has a factory barrel connector on it. I assume it could be the power to the brake switch, but i still need a wire to go out to the lights.

 

My running lights, turn signals, and flashers work. i just need the brake lights... before moving on to figure out why i have another 6-8 dead wires under the dash.

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[MikeRL411]

No ID as to the year or series of the "wagon".  You are wasting our time!

 

You know what you mean!  God knows that you know what you mean!  But God knows that no one else knows what you mean!

 

Readers of minds we are not [Yoda].

[DanielC]

Well, we got the model of car, and I assume the make is a Datsun, but what year?

 

Does the car have separate turn signals on the rear, or are the brake lights also the turn signals?

[ByStickel]

510, 1972.

 

To waste one's time, I did mean not.

 

Daniel,

 

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure, and the car is 30 minutes away from here, so I can't check before I post ignorantly, again, but here's a pic of the same style light, with WB at the top, WB and GW for the center, and RB at the bottom reverse lights.

photo courtesy of google image search.

[datzenmike]

The current project is to restore brake lights.

 

My running lights, turn signals, and flashers work. i just need the brake lights... before moving on

 

Electricity is invisible so looking at the wires doesn't tell you much. For $5 you can get a very good test light. It's a pointy 'screw driver' with a lamp in the handle and a length of wire with an alligator clip on the end. Clip it to ground and touch a bare wire ot terminal and if there is power the lamp lights.

 

 

 

Now check the two terminals on the brake switch. If no power, the brake lights are not going to work no matter how many diagrams you look at.

 

Maybe the switch is stuck, maybe broken.... maybe the fuse is bad. The tester is good for tracking things down.

[Laecaon]

Ill get you as many diagrams I have. No 2 are the same. Wagon tail light wiring is for sure different than sedan, starting with the turn signal stalk.

 

Give me 2 seconds...

[Laecaon]

http://nwdatsuns.com/download/file.php?id=11
 http://nwdatsuns.com/download/file.php?id=12

[Laecaon]

Basically, power comes from the Brake/Horn fuse, to the Hazard switch, to the Brake switch, to the turn signal switch, to the tail lights.

 

Lights ground on frame, make sure this is a good connection.

 

Both middle and top bulbs should light up with Brake or Turn signal, running light is middle only.

[ByStickel]

Mike, I've got voltmeters, but the problem is that my brake switch didn't have wires going to both terminals. I need to find out what color they're supposed to be so that I can hunt for them. I've already checked to see that I have continuity to the brake lights... I'd like to restore the power to the circuit, as the factory intended.

 

If I had a wagon diagram, I think I'd do a little better.

 

There are numerous places where some PO has taken other-color factory wiring and spliced it in to extend circuits, so a WL might be BR for a few inches... it's horrible.

[ByStickel]

Laecaon,

 

Thank you. I'll sift through those and, hopefully, will find what I need.

 

If any goon owners are willing to look at their brake switches and will tell me what color wires lead into the bullet connectors at the brake switch, that would help me a lot.

[Carwson]

71 510 wagon

 

Mine has a green with yellow stripe wire and green with red stripe wire. If you need any more info that I can get from my wagon pm me. 

[ByStickel]

Thanks, Carwson. I know that I have those, but don't think I have continuity from the GY to the back, so i need to figure that out, and why someone cut my GR wire, even though it seems to have 12V constant.

 

It should be a fun day.

[datzenmike]

The power to the brake light switch should be constant as the brakes work without the key on. (same as the horn, clock, headlamps, interior lamp...)

 

The switch closes when the pedal is depressed sending power to the lamps and then to ground. There should be two wires to the brake switch so look around near by for a loose wire.

[ByStickel]

A whole day gone by with no real progress.

 

I have the wires and connectors I'm supposed to have. That's good. The Green/Red has 12V. The Green/Yellow has continuity to the tail lights. The brake switch tests fine. I think it makes sense that closing the switch will send 12V to the brake lights...

 

Plug 'em together and no brake lights.

 

Running lights, turn signals, and hazards work.

 

I unplugged Green/yellow and applied 12V. Nothing. I turned on the hazards and watch the voltage jump up and down at the Green/yellow wire. It seems like everything should work.

 

Any ideas would be welcome.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Contack Icehouse on here

he said there is a C clip splice that does this alot on wagons where the rear light go bad.

Its near the fuse box area I think but Ichouse(jeff Hino knows wagons)

[DanielC]

Take the tail light assemblies off the car, and test them with a 12 volt battery.  With four wires, on each tail light, you should get a tail light, a stop light, and reverse light and an turn signal.  Remember, with the tail light assembly off the car, you have to run a ground wire to the assembly.

Once you know each lamp works on the assembly, then you go back and check the car wiring. 

Make sure the tail light assembly grounds properly when you bolt it back on the car.  You can do this by turning the engine off, putting the car in reverse, with the key on, turning on the tail lights, and turning on the four way flasher.  

Then get a long wire, and using a volt meter, check the voltage between the negative battery terminal, and the tail light frame, or black grounding wire at the tail light assembly

[ByStickel]

Charging the new battery, since I found it at 1.6V, this morning...

 

I had the lights out and grounded, so that I could see if they were coming on. running, turn and flashers worked. I didn;t think for a second that reverse would; that would be too good.

 

Am I right that the Green/Red supplies power through the brake switch, sending it through the Green/Yellow, through the turn signal switch via the lt green/red and lt green black wires, the same ones that are used for the turn signals? What am I missing?

[DanielC]

A am not real familiar with 510 goon wiring. 

But on a 521, you have separate turn signals, and brake lights, on the rear.  The brake lights are totally independent from the turn signals.  the operation of one does not affect the other.

A 521 has fused power always supplied to one side of the brake light switch.  The other side of the brake light switch goes to the brake lights.

 

Brake light wiring on a 521 is green wire, with a yellow stripe, from the fuse box, through the brake light switch, to the tail lights.

[ByStickel]

At least it looks good. Daniel, it sounds like the 521 uses the same basic system. For some reason, this one stopped working and the brake circuits, along with many others, got hacked into.

 

Maybe tomorrow will be a better day.

 

[Laecaon]

Step one.

 

Check for voltage at the brake switch.

 

Then check for voltage on the other side of the switch when you press the pedal. I have seen many bad brake switches.

 

G/R from fusebox, it splices into G/Y on the way to the Hazard switch. With Hazard switch off power is sent to the brake switch via undocument wire color.

 

This wire color on my 71 wagon is Green/Red with a Yellow ferrule at either end (at the brake switch and the 3 terminal connector to the hazard switch)

 

Then again via an undocumented wire color we go from the brake switch to the turn signal switch. This wire is Green/Yellow on my car.

 

Considering your turn signals, your lights are properly hooked up for brake lights and the harness is good from the turn signal switch to the lights.

 

 

Again, you have 3 bulbs in each tail light. The bottom one is the reverse bulb. The middle bulb is dual filament, the top is single filament. Running lights light up the low output filament of the middle bulb. Brakes and Turnsignals light up BOTH the middle bulb bright filament and the top bulb. Yes the brake and turn signals are the same bulbs, yes that is why the brake switch is wired to the turn signal.

[ByStickel]

Ok. It was a much better day. I got numerous orphan wires tracked and labeled. I started looking for the parasitic draw, and ended up finding two, for a total of about 5.5 Amps. One was the alternator, a too-large internally regulated model from somewhere, and the second...

 

...was from my brake lights, which miraculously came to life!  Thanks to everybody for all the suggestions.

 

Of course, I lost the front running lights at some point, and my headlights are hi-beam only, meaning that they're hi-beams in the hi-beam setting and hi-beams in the low-beam position. The relay does sound as though it's working, but I need to dig into that. next.

 

Here's another question. A big reason why I bought this car is the '73 tach...

 

 

I ran out of time to check, but assume that the two bulbs from the original wiring will just pop into the two openings?

 

 

Oh, and where is the parking brake switch, if these cars actually came with them? I didn't see anything on the mechanism beneath the dash.

[DanielC]

Parking brake switch?

Parking brake switch?

We don't neeeed no parking brake switch!

 

It may not have had a parking brake switch.   Datsun 521 trucks do not even have a neutral safety switch.  They will crank, and start in gear, without stepping on the clutch pedal.

[banzai510(hainz)]

...was from my brake lights, which miraculously came to life!

 

Thats what Icehouse says there is a c clip spilce that does this near the fuse box he said. This will happen again I think.

 

 

head lights ? if works in Highbeam then the switch contacks are dirty Open up the realy and clean. Or highbeams dont work and lows work, Crap I forget.

Highbeams in Low beam? Ck to see if you got the correct lamps or they hooked it up that way.

 

 

 

way I troubel shoot is make sure all the lamp(lamp is ON) connection have 12volts using a test light that is grounded.

How it works is a ground is applied to one side of connector and lamp will come on.

Called a switchable ground

 

this is just a rough guess on this

[Charlie69]

When you finish working with the wiring each day/night disconnect the battery.  You have no idea what the previous owners might have done to the wiring and until you get it all squared away disconnect the battery.  I say this from experience.  I had a 55 Chevy that the whole harness burned one night.  There was not enough of it left to determine what the problem was.

[Laecaon]

Well UNLIKE 521s, 510s have both a parking brake switch and a clutch switch. Parking brake switch is located on the handle mechanism in the dash. You can see it from below.

 

Electrically speaking 521s are really not like 510s at all.