Rack and pinion exploration. Building a bolt in conversion

[afracer]

Very cool, now you can do very very slight modifications to this kit and expand your customer base! For example; the 510 crossmember directly bolts into a 74-78 B210 and only needs the LCA holes drilled 1/2" closer together, or adjustable LUCas. The 1200/B110 would almost be drop in as well except in addition to the B210 mods, the crossmember mount holes have to be a little closer together. The B310 is able to use the newer 510 crossmember (A10) as a direct bolt in, except I'm not sure how much different the older 510 crossmember would be from the A10. So B110/B210/B310 guys could probably use your kit with some very minor mods in their cars too! Would you like a test car to see?

[Icehouse]

Very cool, now you can do very very slight modifications to this kit and expand your customer base! For example; the 510 crossmember directly bolts into a 74-78 B210 and only needs the LCA holes drilled 1/2" closer together, or adjustable LUCas. The 1200/B110 would almost be drop in as well except in addition to the B210 mods, the crossmember mount holes have to be a little closer together. The B310 is able to use the newer 510 crossmember (A10) as a direct bolt in, except I'm not sure how much different the older 510 crossmember would be from the A10. So B110/B210/B310 guys could probably use your kit with some very minor mods in their cars too! Would you like a test car to see?

 

 

We plan on it at some point.  We just want each of the cars in our possession so we can measure them for our 3D model.  Good call! 

[datsunfreak]

Very cool, now you can do very very slight modifications to this kit and expand your customer base! For example; the 510 crossmember directly bolts into a 74-78 B210 and only needs the LCA holes drilled 1/2" closer together, or adjustable LUCas.

 

Or just use 510 LCAs.   :thumbup:

 

Or enjoy your extra negative camber from using the longer B210 arms.  B)

 

 

The 1200/B110 would almost be drop in as well except in addition to the B210 mods, the crossmember mount holes have to be a little closer together. The B310 is able to use the newer 510 crossmember (A10) as a direct bolt in, except I'm not sure how much different the older 510 crossmember would be from the A10. So B110/B210/B310 guys could probably use your kit with some very minor mods in their cars too! Would you like a test car to see?

 

One slight problem, though. The B110, B310, and A10 use a double-shear control arm mount, not single shear like the 510, 610, and B210. So it would put the control arms in the wrong spot fore and aft. This would not be a "drop in" for anything but a B210 or a 610. Anything else might require enough mods that it would not be cost-effective to use this set-up.

 

Also, since this is designed for a specific steering rack, moving the LCA pivots around will likely cause bumpsteer issues. 

[Icehouse]

One slight problem, though. The B110, B310, and A10 use a double-shear control arm mount, not single shear like the 510, 610, and B210. So it would put the control arms in the wrong spot fore and aft. This would not be a "drop in" for anything but a B210 or a 610. Anything else might require enough mods that it would not be cost-effective to use this set-up.

 

Also, since this is designed for a specific steering rack, moving the LCA pivots around will likely cause bumpsteer issues. 

 

 

That's why it would be cool to have to car in my garage, that way we could draw the front end in Solid Works and sort everything out.  

[datsunfreak]

That's why it would be cool to have to car in my garage, that way we could draw the front end in Solid Works and sort everything out.  

 

Well, you have a 1200 truck, so...   ^_^

 

I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it was specifically built for a 1200.  :thumbup:

[afracer]

Same here! I'd buy one for a 1200 immediately, so long as it still clears my SR20DET.

[Icehouse]

Well, you have a 1200 truck, so...   ^_^

 

I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it was specifically built for a 1200.  :thumbup:

 

 

Same here! I'd buy one for a 1200 immediately, so long as it still clears my SR20DET.

 

 

 

Trust me boys!!  Soon there will be a 1200 unit!!!!  My truck used to be my "nice" driving Datsun.  Now it feels like a junk heap!  

[ol' 320]

Jeff: What about some love for trucks? I thought you had a 620 now. What about a bolt-in for 521/620 trucks?

[Icehouse]

Jeff: What about some love for trucks? I thought you had a 620 now. What about a bolt-in for 521/620 trucks?

 

 

 

haha Yeah Sam picked up a 521 as well :)  Maybe down the road, kids, house, and a yard full of broke down cars slows the list of parts we want to build.  hopefully down the road we will build a conversion for the truck.  

[flatcat19]

That would need a new steering column then too.

 

That would be huge for truck guys wanting to shorten the column. I'd be interested.

[paradime]

Same here! I'd buy one for a 1200 immediately, so long as it still clears my SR20DET.

Another beni of the R&P conversion is SR swaps can keep the bottom mount turbo setup. Plenty of room for the stock position of the down pipe.

[heywier427]

Bump for manual racks to be back in stock :)  Please.  Getting sick of constantly fixing this rotary!!!

[Laecaon]

Another beni of the R&P conversion is SR swaps can keep the bottom mount turbo setup. Plenty of room for the stock position of the down pipe.

Why I am doing my own for the CA swap. I really wanted to keep my bottom mount manifold.

[paradime]

Why I am doing my own for the CA swap. I really wanted to keep my bottom mount manifold.

 

Add CA's to the list. As for the bottom mount, stick with what already works, right. :thumbup:

 

I've heard there's SR guys who keep the bottom mount and bend the pipe around the box. Making a hard U turn right off the turbine can't help performance.

[Laecaon]

Add CA's to the list. As for the bottom mount, stick with what already works, right. :thumbup:

 

I've heard there's SR guys who keep the bottom mount and bend the pipe around the box. Making a hard U turn right off the turbine can't help performance.

With the CA, the turbo wants to exist in the same space as the box. There was just no way to keep the stock manifold and the steering box.

[Icehouse]

Bump for manual racks to be back in stock :)  Please.  Getting sick of constantly fixing this rotary!!!

 

 

We made a few more but sold them already.  We have the newest batch almost done.  We did a quick redesign to accommodate the RHD dudes.   

 

 

Why I am doing my own for the CA swap. I really wanted to keep my bottom mount manifold.

 

 

Better order up a  set of our steering arms so it doesn't steer super slow.  

 

Add CA's to the list. As for the bottom mount, stick with what already works, right. :thumbup:

 

I've heard there's SR guys who keep the bottom mount and bend the pipe around the box. Making a hard U turn right off the turbine can't help performance.

 

The CA should work with our S13 mounts (whenever we get those done haha :) ) 

[Laecaon]

Better order up a  set of our steering arms so it doesn't steer super slow.

Running S13 knuckles. Super modified though to help correct bump steer (or bring it into reality). I already determined that 510 knuckles wont even get a remotely close steering angle to park the car. I originally was going to run 280zx steering arms.

 

Plus, your knuckles dont take into account how much I have modified my crossmember or steering rack (its a little over 3 inches shorter).

[freekwonder]

Did you guys change something on the product website?  I though there was an package that had eveything in it?  Do you have to add the crossmember, steering knuckles, mounts and washers separately to the cart now? 

[Icehouse]

Running S13 knuckles. Super modified though to help correct bump steer (or bring it into reality). I already determined that 510 knuckles wont even get a remotely close steering angle to park the car. I originally was going to run 280zx steering arms.

 

Plus, your knuckles dont take into account how much I have modified my crossmember or steering rack (its a little over 3 inches shorter).

 

 

bump could be shimmed out with heim joint outter tie rods.  The ackerman and the steering speed would be right though.   I'll have to check it out at Canby.  

 

Did you guys change something on the product website?  I though there was an package that had eveything in it?  Do you have to add the crossmember, steering knuckles, mounts and washers separately to the cart now? 

 

 

No longer a kit option.  The web sight couldn't keep proper inventory.  Price is the same you just have to add it all to cart separately.  

[freekwonder]

No longer a kit option.  The web sight couldn't keep proper inventory.  Price is the same you just have to add it all to cart separately.  

 

Cool, no problem, just wanted to make sure.  

[dukerollo]

Really digging the R&D you guys have invested and that you are bringing such a cool product to market. I hope you sell a million of them.

 

A rack for the 210 is on the bucket list, so any info on that end is eagerly awaited. If you need any measurements hit me up.

 

With the shorter tension rods and the strut tops moved back, how many degrees of caster are you typically getting?

[SSSEXXX]

Hello!!!! Looks like we are going to swap to a to an MR2 manual rack.  You gentlemen want to give me some input? 

[paradime]

Hello!!!! Looks like we are going to swap to a to an MR2 manual rack.  You gentlemen want to give me some input? 

 

I'm sure you're aware the flex in the box setup is the weakest link in the 510's steering giving it that vague indirect feel at the wheel. The R&P conversion will help the 510's steering feel much more crisp and immediate like a modern car. I haven't got mine in yet, but I've talked to few people who've experienced it. 

 

I looked back through your build to see what front suspension work you've done and so far it appears Coilovers, Roll Center Adjusters, Camber Plates & Upper Hats. I don't believe any of these upgrades would conflict with Jeff's rack (I assume you're using his setup). 

 

Although I've learned to be confident in getting the most out of the 510's semi trailing arm rear suspension, controlling it through the spongy box is kind of an indirect art form. If you watch someone racing a 510 through an onboard camera you can see the wheel input is big and dramatic compared to modern race cars. I anticipate the rack will transfer information through the wheel and my reaction to it much faster and more accurately. I'm really excited about getting rid of the old Sponge Bob Square Box.

[SSSEXXX]

@paradime - Thank you for that.  Really nice of you to take the time to provide some thoughts.  This forum has been a bit slow as of late.  I am planning on running Jeff's cross member, but doing so does not come without its costs.  I am going to have to ditch the Datsport crossmember and steering bits too.  That means most likely replacing the miscellaneous pieces with T3 pieces that are not cheap.

 

Checking Jeff's website, it appears to the manual rack option is out of stock.  Going to have to hit up Icehouse!

[Icehouse]

Don't forget to give Sam credit, he's an amazing mechanical engineer that I work with and a good friend.  This would have never happened without Sam.  The SolidWorks model was intense!  

 

Yeah converting over from something like the Datsport kit or other upgrades may result in some parts being ditched.  SO SO worth it though!  If you can add some serious caster and the rack it drives amazing!  Sam and I both daily drive and race our cars.  It's fun to roll the car in the shop on Friday and out on Sunday for a race with completely new suspension to really feel the difference.  

 

We have a slightly new design and that's why we are out of stock.  It should be back in soon.  We have the crossmembers done we are just working on casting our own bushings.  We are so close!  Sorry for the delay.