Questions for you all on a 521 landspeed project

[datzenmike]

Who the fuck needs numbers.

There is 1 thing only the 72 has.

 

Shoulder belts. Every 72 i have ever seen and owned has that.

 

 

Why is everyone so negative about this. Maybe it wasnt easy to get a 72 that he would go through the trouble to re-vin.

 

This is getting out of hand....

 

We are comparing a land speed racer to a vehicle driven on the street. A land speed competition has rules. Vehicle qualifications for running on the street have laws. Break the rules and get caught you are simply disqualified. Break the law and there is usually a fine or punishment for VIN tampering. Not condoning breaking any rules OR laws just saying they are not the same thing.

 

 

 

Easy enough to install shoulder belts to qualify as a '72... and then remove them for the roll bar and proper safety sear belts and safety restraints.

 

You are basically needing a '72 shell and nothing much else about this truck will be stock. Certainly the engine and transmission that powers it, nor for that matter, the rest of the drive train. So if, IF there were some dispute about the vehicle year the end result might be disqualification. This is not a truck patched together with salvaged VINs to sell to the public where there are laws and penalties to protect buyers from fraud and keep other people on the highway safe.

[ATP]

Who the fuck needs numbers.

There is 1 thing only the 72 has.

 

Shoulder belts. Every 72 i have ever seen and owned has that.

 

 

Why is everyone so negative about this. Maybe it wasnt easy to get a 72 that he would go through the trouble to re-vin.

You are actually correct I think. In terms of the rules it only requires proving its a 72. If the 72 was the only year with shoulder belts, then having the mounting holes for them is really all Id need to show given everything else is identical. Likely I could show up with something that has no tags, no vin, nothing and still prove it simply by those shoulder belt mounting holes.

 

There is actually a good chance I could show up with just a bill of sale saying the truck is 72, or even just pictures of other 72's to show the body lines and design is the same and that's even with everything to identify it (VIN tags and whatnot) removed it would likely be enough. Nobody cares about whether the car is numbers matching or if it has a title or crap like that, they just want to know if you are cheating and by cheating that implies you trying to gain an advantage that the rules prohibit. It's possible I could simply being a picture of a 72 to show all the diamentions and contours are all the same with mine and that would be enough. The only thing that matter is the body.

 

 

Andrew

[ATP]

Oh and yes...this IS happening, and it will be with a Datsun 521.

 

The first engine we will be using is a 2.3 turbocharged ford 4 cyl. With a 5 speed. This is because we already have this engine. It'll be all fuel injected with tons of geeky things that I love doing. Then ultimately after we figure the truck out some we are planning to step up to a turbocharged v8 if we can get all the packaging I to the small area. The goal is to get it on the salt in August, then just have fun with it as we get it dialed in.

 

 

Andrew

[datzenmike]

Get a 4 speed. Over drives will put monster hp stress on the counter gear and all its bearings. Fifth is not intended for high speed but cruise. Run in fourth it's not even a 'gear' actually, and is a straight through connection inside the transmission. Use the differential as a the final 'over drive' ratio.

[ATP]

Get a 4 speed. Over drives will put monster hp stress on the counter gear and all its bearings. Fifth is not intended for high speed but cruise. Run in fourth it's not even a 'gear' actually, and is a straight through connection inside the transmission. Use the differential as a the final 'over drive' ratio.

Yes this makes sense. Most always rear gear is the method used for increasing speed. This will probably come up in conversation soon. The project is just getting off the ground, so there are lots of details to work out still.

 

 

Andrew

[DanielC]

Not that it matter a whole lot, but I believe there are some Datsun (Nissan) five speeds that 5th is the one to one ratio.

[datzenmike]

Correct Daniel. This would be a DD direct drive 5th and cram an extra gear below the top one to one. This would be the F5C71B from Nissan Competition. Usually extremely low (below three to one first gear ratios) but this speeder would probably be push started anyway.

[Dolomite]

I'm not down with the fudging the vin, it is cheating in my book. However, the 2.3 Ford turbo is kick ass, I have one in an mgb, cammed with big injectors and it will decimate high end Euro cars on the freeway. Stock internals, if from a tbird or svo mustang, can handle over 20lbs boost and around 700HP with a good head gasket. My pop knows a guy that road races a ranger with this motor and he destroys with it. Good valve springs and who knows how hard you can twist it. Mine is happy at 7k rpm all day, granted its at 15lbs boost and not flat open for miles on end in hot weather.

[wayno]

It is fairly easy to determine the year of a 521 by just opening the door, it's really that easy.

Here is what the 1968/69 piece of metal looks like between the door and the rear window, it doesn't have the flat spot for the shoulder belt connection.

Here is the 70/71 flat spot for the shoulder belt connection, but it has no hole.

Here is a photo of the flat spot in a different color, it's kinda hard to see in these photos.

I do not have a photo of the shoulder belt connection in a 1972 521, and I searched this forum for 10 minutes trying to find one with no success. :(

Here are the door differences, the 68/69 door looks like this, there is no spot for a door lock pull.

Here is the 1970 door, it has the spot, but doesn't have a hole for the door lock pull.

And here is the 71/72 door with the door lock pull.

I am not trying to be negative here, I am just showing you the differences of the years, and if your inspectors are knowledgeable about Datsuns, they will know right away that your 1969 it is not a 1972.

If they only are worried about body shape, then you are good to go, as I said before, late 1968 thru 1972 are basically the same except for minor differences like I just posted above among other differences like side marker lights which the 1972 has, but the 1969 doesn't have, but it is easy to just install some marker lights.

[datzenmike]

I'm not down with the fudging the vin, it is cheating in my book.

It's only cheating if caught and proven. EVERYONE cheats. EVERYONE.

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/smizik-on-sports/2015/02/13/Bob-Smizik-Little-League-cheating-has-plenty-of-company/stories/201502130144

[Charlie69]

Here is Mike Klotz's Mend project link where he starts the process of adding the shoulder belt to an earlier 521. 

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/8175-mklotz70-project-mend/page-25?do=findComment&comment=401636

 

Datzenmike you should study before you post, "Easy enough to install shoulder belts to qualify as a '72... and then remove them for the roll bar and proper safety sear belts and safety restraints."

 

Remember it is the sole purpose of this to help in the deception!

[wayno]

From the sounds of it, he is working with the officials to see if this truck is going to work/be legal, fact is that he don't even need a title for this truck if it is not being driven on the roads, remember that hari kari truck guy looking for a title for that 520 that had been raced on the strip.

My post above was for pointing out the general differences in the years.

I am wondering where he is going to get the gearing he needs to go them type of speeds, as far as I know, Nissan didn't make what he is going to need, lets just say he has the 3.354 gearset in the rear, and he runs that 2.3 up to 8000rpms, with stock 14 inch size tires, lets say 195s, how fast would he be going?

[ATP]

The old saying goes "If you ain't cheatin, you aint tryin!" In my most redneck accent I can manage!

 

Again (I think this is like the 5th time I have said this) we are going to be in contact with the inspector, if we need to we will get all the things or a complete cab or something from a 72'. This isn't a concourse hot rod car show! I can build this out of 15 different 521s from all different years. If it has all the 72 specific things or even some of them, then it's a 72.

 

My 64 f100 pickup has police car front suspension, engine, trans, diff, brakes, steering. Most of the frame is 65 f100, the bed is 65 f100. GM brake master, GM column. Mustang fan and radiator, and 64 f100 cab, doors and fenders.....even the seat is only half f100 and half some international seat frame. So tell me...what is it?? See I have a title and vin that says its a 64 f100, it has all the body queues of 64 f100, so guess what, it's a 64f100.

 

 

Andrew

[Charlie69]

What good is it if you set a land speed record and then say ten tears down the line it gets challenged on a formality and gets stricken from the records.

 

I am not against you and your project I am against the idea of falsification to obtain it.

 

If you do everything you can with the officials and all that you do is deemed acceptable by the officials then all is good!

 

It would be great to see you win a land speed record with a Datsun 521 no matter what year it is.

 

I have a couple friends that in the late seventies was trying to set the land speed record on Harley Sporsters.  They had fun but never achieved their goal.

[datzenmike]

Nissan didn't make what he is going to need, lets just say he has the 3.354 gearset in the rear, and he runs that 2.3 up to 8000rpms, with stock 14 inch size tires, lets say 195s, how fast would he be going?

180.95 MPH @ 8,000

 

A 3.0 differential gives 202.3 not allowing for tire stretch from centrifugal forces.

[datzenmike]

Datzenmike you should study before you post, "Easy enough to install shoulder belts to qualify as a '72... and then remove them for the roll bar and proper safety sear belts and safety restraints."

 

Remember it is the sole purpose of this to help in the deception!

Easy in that it won't take much to make it look like it has, or had, over shoulder seat belts, besides you are going to need a real 5 point harness anyway... and most of all the techs are not experts on old Datsun trucks.

[ATP]

I'd put money on it many people will be like "what is it?"

[wayno]

They made an H190 with a 3.0 differential?

What did it come in?

180.95 MPH @ 8,000

A 3.0 differential gives 202.3 not allowing for tire stretch from centrifugal forces.

[datzenmike]

None that I know of. Just sayin' a 3.0 would reach 200 MPH. I assume you could run any axle differential you want as who would know what an H-190 even looks like. (we're getting back to the seat belts again)

[ATP]

There are some things that you have to remember when calculating top speed for a bonneville car. The very first thing is traction. The salt is basically like ice, there is no traction whatsoever, so one of the key things is to add weight. We will probably add between 2,000-3,000 lbs to the 521. Because of this and what it takes to run 200mph+ we will likely need 800+ HP to do it. This won't happen this year, the goal is to do that next year.

 

 

Andrew

[datson4life]

There are some things that you have to remember when calculating top speed for a bonneville car. The very first thing is traction. The salt is basically like ice, there is no traction whatsoever, so one of the key things is to add weight. We will probably add between 2,000-3,000 lbs to the 521. Because of this and what it takes to run 200mph+ we will likely need 800+ HP to do it. This won't happen this year, the goal is to do that next year.

 

 

Andrew

800+ hp, dang it i was off by 550 hp

[ATP]

Looks like some exciting things are happening with the project. There should be a racecar showing up at my shop soon that will be cannibalized...has most of the things we need to get this landspeed truck built!

 

 

Andrew

[]2eDeYe]

Here is a thread that should help build a fast 521. This is the fastest Lseries 521 that I know of. :)

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/39329-project-drag-521/page-2?hl=race&do=findComment&comment=617523

[Cahoon520]

Oh and yes...this IS happening, and it will be with a Datsun 521.

The first engine we will be using is a 2.3 turbocharged ford 4 cyl. With a 5 speed. This is because we already have this engine. It'll be all fuel injected with tons of geeky things that I love doing. Then ultimately after we figure the truck out some we are planning to step up to a turbocharged v8 if we can get all the packaging I to the small area. The goal is to get it on the salt in August, then just have fun with it as we get it dialed in.

Andrew

Hope it doesn't get rained out this year......I will be looking for your Truck in August.

[ATP]

Racecar showed up yesterday for cannibilizing!