I bought a basket case. Now what?

[Sierra]

Very cool!

I will be following your built for sure!

Talk about thinking outside the box.

[The Engine Room]

I get the strangest feeling working on this car. Everything about it is just tiny. I have all of these parts laying around that were stock take-offs from other projects that are just HUGE by comparison.

 

That being said, I've decided to use the 40mm throttle body. It's good for 150+ hp on this car and it already has the provisions for the IAC valve that I'm going to use. The cast adapter piece for it has provisions for throttle linkage, EGR, PCV, and it doesn't have water passages.

 

I had cut the cast throttle body adapter piece off of the original Ford intake because it was going to interfere with the radiator. I'll end up putting a bend between it and the plenum. It has a huge mounting boss for the EGR that I won't be using. I cut it down really short and re-drilled the holes to accept the MAP/IAT sensor that I have. It's a combination 2.8 bar / open element IAT sensor that came off of a VW Golf TDI. I had to cut off so much of the EGR boss to get below the tapped holes that I ended up making a 10mm spacer to get it back up into the air stream. I also bored the snout back to the 60mm so it'll be easier to weld back onto the plenum.

 

Before:

 

After:

[The Engine Room]

I really want to use an air/water intercooler set up on this thing but I already have a factory intercooler for the TDI from earlier that would be just about right (I had actually saved it with the intention of welding a box around it and making it into an air/water exchanger). This intercooler is only $60 or so new so if I punched a hole in it, so what?

 

I took off the grille and mocked it up:

 

If i turn it right, the angled inlet points through a hole beside the radiator. One less hole I have to cut:

 

The end tank on the opposite side points down, which would make routing a bigger deal but I think my radiator guy can take it off and flip it over:

 

I have all kinds of room up here if I flip the tank around:

[The Engine Room]

I built a jig to keep the flanges from moving around while welding. Now I don't have to weld it in the car or take the engine out. It's a piece of 2x3 angle that I drilled the stud pattern into. I also engraved the port location onto it so I could just line it up and go.

 

 

I had a lot of trouble getting the Ford material to weld properly. I called in a favor and took it to a friend of mine who is a legit race car fabricator. He had a lot of trouble too. It seems like the manifold material has a lower melting temperature than the runner material (it appeared to be brazed from the factory). The trick to welding it is to back-purge the pipe and to use a blunt tip 2% thoriated tungsten. It came out okay:

 

 

(I don't know why that picture is so blurry. I guess you'll see the results in a later picture)

[The Engine Room]

Since I already had it bolted to the welding jig, and it would all fit in the furnace at work, I stress-relieved and heat treated the manifold. When I unbolted it from the jig it didn't move at all; even after all of the welding. It slipped right on the engine no problem at all. Win!

 

 

I machined the fuel rail for the injectors and the factory Civic banjo fitting. I also machined a threaded plug and an adapter for the Civic fuel pressure regulator (I made 2 in case I messed one up).

 

 

 

The only part of the Civic fuel system that I won't be using is the pulsation damper (not pictured). I was going to put the fuel pressure regulator on the TB end of the fuel rail and sandwich the banjo fitting between the pulsation dampener and that plug I made for the end of the fuel rail; but there would have been a clearance problem between the throttle body adapter and the fuel rail. I swapped the regulator to the opposite end and I'll just put a plug in the front of the rail in case I need to add a pressure gauge port.

 

I threaded the bottom of the fuel rail so I could attach the banjo fitting to the bottom instead of the end. You can see where I rotated it downward:

 

 

I mocked up the throttle body to check for clearance. You can see that I may end up with a clearance problem with the MAP/IAT connector. It would fit but I'd have to take the sensor off of the manifold in order to unplug it:

 

 

 

 

I still ended up with a clearance issue between the TB adapter and the fuel rail: I wouldn't be able to remove the fuel rail once it is welded up. I bought a 1 foot piece of fuel rail and this is all that I had to trim off:

 

 

I found that I would also have a hood clearance problem if I were to mount the throttle body level with the intake. I will need to rotate it down several degrees. I also may need to increase the angle of the bend angle to something closer to 45` in order to fully clear the radiator if I upgrade it later.

 

 

I decided to tap the hole in the end of the fuel pressure regulator adapter in case I need to run an  aftermarket regulator.

 

[]2eDeYe]

This thread is awesome :cool: 

[Sierra]

What ECU are you thinking of using?

[The Engine Room]

Random Knowledge Deposit:

I don't intend to keep a wideband on this car after I tune it. It won't be running enough boost to justify the extra expense and complication. I'm just going to tune it with my old dinosaur LM-1 and then switch over to a narrow band OE sensor.

I dug out and dusted off the ol' Innovate LM-1 just to make sure it works and to update the firmware. I couldn't find the programming cable and I'm pretty sure I haven't seen it in the last 10 years. The replacement cable isn't available from any vendor that I want to do business with and I wasn't successful in finding a (correct) wiring pinout of the mini-DIN 8 connector (the manual tells lies). Also I'm not patient enough to wait for shipping.

I decided to just add a 3.5mm jack to the LM-1 since I have several of the Innovate serial-to-3.5 cables (and it's the same cable used to program the Microsquirt). I just had to open up the case and followed the traces back to the serial transceiver IC.

I made this handy diagram:



I soldered the wires to the header but I couldn't find a panel-mount audio connector in my boxes-of-stuff. I did happen to have a bunch of those audio adapters that they give you on regional flights so I used that for now.

[The Engine Room]

What ECU are you thinking of using?

Probably a microsquirt. DIY Autotune is right up the road.

[The Engine Room]

This thread is awesome :cool:

 

 

I aim to please.

[The Engine Room]

I can't add pictures from mobile view?

 

I guess I'll update later.

[The Engine Room]

Okay, I figured that out.

 

Bonus points to anyone who can tell me what this is in my back yard:

 

[Lockleaf]

Saturn sl2

[DaveSpecB210]

Gee willickers Batman!

LoL.

That's no ordinary Saturn!!!!

 

Look threw the hole in the trunk floor!!!

 

It's freaking RWD!

[Lockleaf]

Haha I totally missed that. I'm blaming it on the tiny pic on my phone.

[The Engine Room]

 

About Me and About This Build:

 

 

I'm the R&D Managing Engineer for a large performance parts manufacturer. Many years ago I had a sign on my office that said "ENGINEERING". One of my interns changed it to read "ENGINE ROOM". He said "This is where we make power". It stuck.

 

Like I said in post #1, I've done a lot of builds. I have done several from scratch but more have been builds that other people have partially built and botched or never completed.

 

I find that most problems that people have when building a project car derive from the same fundamental problem that you have when you go to the grocery store while hungry: you don't have a real plan and you just throw everything in your cart that appeals to you; regardless of how it might fit into the plan as a whole.

 

When I start to build (or re-build) a project, I try to think about it like that TV cooking show from the 90s where that master chef with the goatee just goes to a random house, looks through the cupboards, and cooks a gourmet meal from the stuff they already have. (Remember that? Probably not).

 

The simple fact is that the internet doesn't have very many really good builds. The very best work is done by very talented craftsmen (not mechanics) who show little or no detail about how a project goes together, not because they are being secretive, but because they simply don't have the time. They just bust their asses every day and build really cool stuff and, if they are smart, they hire someone (with bony fingers, usually) to sell copies of the handy-work that they create from a desk in the tiny office at the front of the shop.

 

There are some really high-investment builds on some forums but the reality is that these are rarely innovative or special (I think the only exception is Volvo guys); you are just watching some wrench-turner squander his grandpa's inheritance or rack up a bunch of credit card debt on some "pussy getter" that's just going eventually to kill the grass in his yard as that tire goes flat for the final time; until his landlord bitches real hard so he has to push it into the back and lean up some plywood so you can't see it from the street.

 

Don't get me wrong: If you want to spend $10K on your 350Z, RX-8, Civic, or FR-S, that's your business. Just don't be deluded into thinking it's unique or special because I'll buy it on CL after I whittle you down to $1500 since your rent is due and you can't get evicted since you can't pass a credit check and your mom's new boyfriend isn't going to let you move back into the basement. You bought a lot of junk that wasn't really designed for your car and you made it LESS valuable, worth LESS to most people, and it was WORSE to drive when it ran at all. [/rant]

 

I have tested and vetted a LOT of aftermarket parts and I always find the same thing: OE parts are better. If you want a good, quality part, find a part from a car that makes the power that you are (realistically) shooting for and figure out how to fit that part into your car. Look at every part change and modification that you want to do and think "how would the factory have done that?". If you can't or don't know, go to the junk yard and start crawling around the cars and figure it out. Trust me. It'll be cheaper and better in the long run.

 

Having said all of that, I have plans for this 1974 Datsun B210. It's 42 years old and it's in really good shape. It's not in "keep it in the garage on jackstands because those Coker's are like $300 each" shape; but it's all there and the rust hole isn't large enough for my son to fall through. I'm not going to build a show car or anything but I do intend to make this a good clean build with a lot of detail and to make it easy to replicate. I'm going on try to keep as many original parts as possible while upgrading the technology as necessary to suit my needs as a daily driver.

 

1: It has to start right up on the first crank. There's nothing worse than trying to keep your food hot while you fill the float bowl with a paper cup in the parking lot of Pizza Hut / AMC / GameSpot just as the 7:45 showing of Batman Returns is letting out and the D-bags are giving you "the look" while loading their hot skanks into their bone-stock late model Camaros and Chargers all around you.

 

2: It has to be safe. I already had to wipe out my photobucket under the advice of my attorney and remove anything that could be misrepresented by the prosecutor to provide proof that I have a history with cars that are irresponsibly fast, unsafe, or have obvious illegal modifications. My wife also has a snitch friend that used to be a drifter but now he rides his bicycle to work and has a ridiculous beard and a Bernie Sanders yard sign who is under strict instructions to alert her to any projects of mine that have the potentiality to necessitate her raising my kid on the life-insurance benefit.

 

3: It has to be as mechanically sound as a rental car. It's one thing to have a car that's irresponsibly fast but it's irritating to not be able to let someone use your car for fear that they will break it. (Get real, If you can hear the turbo chewing through the compressor housing, you need to park it. Also, do you really think you can feel by the seat of your pants that you are going to puke the head gasket? Perhaps you should have had it tuned at a shop that has less than 200 instagram pictures of some fat guy in a red shirt pointing at a torque graph that's shaped like a single blip on an EKG.) Let's use this newfangled technology called "electronics" to keep the shenanigans to within a certain oil/coolant temperature window of operation. Your brother's insurance will pay out when he slides backward into that guardrail that they put up last summer after that kid got killed on that corner; but they won't pay out when he slicks the road just outside his girlfriend's mom's apartment complex with oil that YOU paid for.

 

4: Every piece has to look like it was put there by an engineer. Because it was. If a part looks like an afterthought, It was an afterthought. Engineers don't red anodize parts because that's stupid. If I wanted to spend money to make my car look ridiculous, I would just do that. Someone said that, if a modification makes your car look broken to someone who doesn't know cars, it's a bad mod. The best way to make your car look OE spec is to use as many OE parts as you can. You'll notice that on nearly all of the parts that I make I just design clever ways to attach factory parts to other factory parts.

 

5: It has to be cheap. I'm a new dad and I am having to absorb the lost income since my wife is at home teaching my son how to be a badass. I'm a new and special kind of broke. I drive a bone-stock 12 year old pickup to work and park between M5's and Gen Coupes just to preserve my ability to throw up my 2 middle fingers and go hit the pub if I get pissed.

 

6: It has to retain all emissions and safety equipment. There is absolutely no reason to remove it other than laziness. I used to be in the "f- the Earth, I need power" crowd but then I went to China and saw the devastation caused by a lack of emissions regulations. Our understanding of how to keep the smog to a minimum has grown to the point that it's basically a closed science. If Dodge can get 700+ HP out of an engine that passes Federal Emissions, then why can't you get those 2 horsepowers without making the whole neighborhood smell like a Shell station? Engineering progress replaced smog pumps and EGR with better controls and spark timing but I will still be adding a cat and charcoal canister to this car.

 

7: It needs to be interesting. But that comes automatically when you have a 42 year old car that does 1-6. If you are going to "customize" your car, you should make it an actual functioning mod and not some tacked-on appearance piece with no actual purpose on YOUR car other than to trick people into thinking that your ride is something that it isn't. Don't get me wrong. I love to see appearance only builds that are visually attractive and well-thought-out, and make the entire thing look like it flows together; but when I'm sitting in a lawn chair in my yard in a wife-beater and a pair of homemade jorts, with my pasty-white hams dangling into a kiddie pool floating with cran-berr-ritas; and you roll the stop sign in your bone stock Maxima-sans-muffler and try to lift-shift your CVT; no one would disagree that, between you and I, YOU are the bigger tool, and you're not fooling anyone but yourself.

 

8: It needs to retain the patina of the soul of the original car. This car is small, light, simple, cheap, and utilitarian. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the builds where a guy tries to transform his TL-S into a Veyron/Limousine/8-cinema movie theater or the guy who puts his F350 dually on a 12" lift kit and 44" Super Swampers. It won't ever really work and you have killed the things that those cars were good at.

 

I bet I can pull it off.

 

P.S... I'm going to keep a running tab of the money that I spend on this thing on pg 5. A lot of the parts that I'm using are freebies and leave-overs from other builds but I'll just post the price from Pull-A-Part, which should be a good comparo.

[fisch]

this thread is full or win.

[The Engine Room]

Gee willickers Batman!

LoL.

That's no ordinary Saturn!!!!

 

Look threw the hole in the trunk floor!!!

 

It's freaking RWD!

 

Bingo!

 

It's a SL-2 that I started back in 2012. It was the owner's first car and she actually started a business around (or rather because of) it. It had some sentimental value so she wanted to do something really unique to it. I converted it to RWD and started to build a boosted EcoTEC; but the owner fell on some hard times and stopped paying me so I stopped working on it. I had thoughts of scrapping it this weekend and using the chassis (it's an S13) for the B210, but the owner just happened to come up with a wad of cash today.

 

It's all good though. I really wanted to see that thing light up the rear tires.

[The Engine Room]

I found some old pictures that I took of the Saturn (with a potato, apparently) if you're interested. They're not sorted or cleaned up but you can see how far I got. You'll get the idea:

 

http://s722.photobucket.com/user/The_Engine_Room_/slideshow/Scattern?sort=2

 

Edit: The only way that Photobucket gets the order correct is to link it as a slideshow. Sorry. Just click the x in the UR corner.

[The Engine Room]

I call bullshit on the tech-wiki article about how to remove the coolant suction pipe and the PCV pipe pressed into the block. It says to clamp a pair of vice-grips to the pipe and tap it out with a hammer. I tried every combination of clamping and tapping and twisting and PB blasting imaginable.

 

Is there a trick that I'm missing? I really hate destroying parts.

 

Can someone just give me a really good measurement of the OD of the part that slips into the block so I can make new ones?

[The Engine Room]

Is there anybody out there?

[Cosmonaut]

I will give it a measurement when I get outside...Check back...

[Cosmonaut]

I have heated it along with the vise-grip trick in the past.

[The Engine Room]

So I had enough time to do some more welding between house projects (babyproofing) and mowing. I replaced that 30` bend with a 45` bend in order to clear the MAP/IAT sensor and the radiator.

 

 

It makes the intake hang out a little longer than I want but I think it'll be okay. I might have to run a support rod from the plenum to the injector adapter but I think I can make it look nice. I fully welded the TB adapter to the bend but I only tacked the bend to the plenum. In case I have to move it later.

 

 

I also added bungs for the other vacuum accessories on the back of the plenum. I have the 4-way barb adapter that came on the Ford TB that will work nicely. Oddly, the Ford factory routing diagram had the brake booster running from this port along with several other important vacuum devices. That is usually a no-no so I added a separate bung for the brakes. (the welds look better in person)

 

 

That leaves the 3 vacuum ports on the front of the intake that Ford provided. The one on the bottom of the TB is ported and is specific for the evap system. The 2 on the top are for PCV and the threaded one for the general purpose vacuum. I will use the PCV port for its intended purpose but I might block off the threaded one. I thought about putting a 90` fitting in it and using it for the PCV but it points directly at the IAT sensor.

 

 

I started to mock up the charge pipes. I will probably use 45mm or 2" pipes but 2.5" is what I what I had laying around. Those are both 2.5" tubing (forced perspective).

 

[Cosmonaut]

Very impressive set-up.