difrangia Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Anyone care to share any wisdom on zinc/phosphate addatives for the older engines. I've spent a few hours studying this on-line and would like to tap the knowledge on the subject here on Ratsun. My dad was a Chevy dealer machanic all through the 50's and into the 60's and taught us to coat all mating/moving surfaces with EOS (GM's ZDDP addative). I've always used it on rebuilds and would like to know what the experts here can add. Thanks. Steve Quote Link to comment
john510 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Im no expert but you can use Shell Rotella for diesels or even the Mobil Delvac.Its got the zinc in it. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Every year it seems, the ZDDP level is decreased in gas engine oils. Newer engines don't need it and it is not good for the new cats. It's like a conspiracy to see how low they can go at the (possible) expense of 'flat tappet' engines. Well I have no interest in finding out how well or not protected my engines are, but I also refuse to use additives also. I use the 15W40 Shell Rotella T but Chevron Dello 400 is about the same. It's a 'light' diesel oil and still contains the same level of ZDDP as the other gas engine oils did in the past but slightly lower overall detergents than in most diesel oils. Quote Link to comment
DanielC Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Valvoline VR-1 racing oil also has the higher levels of ZDDP in it. Quote Link to comment
difrangia Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks, guys. These oils that you've named are the ones that are also mentioned in most of the data that I've gone over so far. Also read that that on the other end of the spectrum, too much Z & P can be just as bad as not enough. Quote Link to comment
DanielC Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I have ran Valvoline racing oil since it came in cases of 24 cans that looked like this. In those days, I was towing a two horse trailer, and two horses all over the Pacific Northwest, with a 521. If this oil was going to cause a problem, I think I would have seen it. I too have heard of using GM's Engine Oil Supplement in a newly rebuild engine. Generally the oil is changed soon after a camshaft break in run. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 ZDDP clogs the new catylitic converters... maybe that's where the info is from. Perhaps 'clogs' is missleading. It coats the catalyst with zinc. Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 No quite on topic, but what the hell is up with selling oil in gallon jugs and no longer selling cases of quarts. Pisses me off to no end. Quote Link to comment
DanielC Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Four or five quarts of oil in a gallon jug uses less garbage (containers, boxes) to pack the oil. Also, my curbside recycling will not pick up quarts of used oil, they want it in a gallon container. Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 My curbside recycling will not take any used oil containers. 1 gallon (4 quarts) does not fill most of my cars. Quote Link to comment
EricJB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 In my V8 rigs, I squeeze some of this in. Some people use a whole bottle every other oil change. Some a half a bottle every time. Quote Link to comment
DanielC Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 My curbside recycling does not take used oil containers either. But they will take used oil in one gallon, or a little more plastic bottles, or jugs. So if I get oil in a single four or five quart container, I can put the used oil back in it, for recycling and pickup. I just wish Valvoline VR-1 racing oil came in one gallon containers. 1 Quote Link to comment
EricJB Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Anyone coming to Hobospyders gig this weekend, if you have any unwanted used motor oil, bring it with you and I will gladly take it. if you want your can back I will run down the street, dump it and bring it back. Quote Link to comment
thisismatt Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 All the Oreilly's around here take used motor oil, and the curbside takes oil jugs like any other recycled plastic. I wonder why yours don't? Quote Link to comment
Dalesun Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I just have a 5 gallon bucket with a lid. When it fills up I take it to an auto parts store that has a tank for it and have them dump it. 2 Quote Link to comment
JoeCool Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 In my V8 rigs, I squeeze some of this in. Some people use a whole bottle every other oil change. Some a half a bottle every time. up NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! As a technician I have seen a few engines gooked up by Lucas. Some locked up because it clogged the oil pump. Quote Link to comment
EricJB Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! As a technician I have seen a few engines gooked up by Lucas. Some locked up because it clogged the oil pump. Jeezus, how much did they use? Quote Link to comment
scooter Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I like brad penn oil or if im feelin rich ill get the joe gibbs oil. both is good shit Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 My curbside recycling does not take used oil containers either. but they will take used oil in one gallon, or a little more plastic bottles, or jugs. So if I get oil in a single four or five quart container, I can put the used oil back in it, for recycling and pickup. I just wish Valvoline VR-1 racing oil came in one gallon containers. That is awesome. All the Oreilly's around here take used motor oil, and the curbside takes oil jugs like any other recycled plastic. I wonder why yours don't? Cause they suck. :lol: I just have a 5 gallon bucket with a lid. When it fills up I take it to an auto parts store that has a tank for it and have them dump it. That's what I do. It would be nice to get a 24 qt case though, I have more than one vehicle and it's nice to be able to just grab a quart out of the box when I need one. Can't really do that as easy with the gallon jugs and they require a funnel which is also a pain compared to just dumping a quart in. Quote Link to comment
JoeCool Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Jeezus, how much did they use? 1 quart bottle each oil change per Lucas directions. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 One quart is about 25% additive. That can't be right. Back in the day we had STP. It was thick like honey. Trouble was it took forever to drain and I never used it. Quote Link to comment
difrangia Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 What I've read about GM's E.O.S. and several of the other additives in a couple of the articles that I've visited, is that it's used to coat mating surfaces on the build up and approximately two ounces is added at oil fill-up and changes. I'm sure that the oil change addition may vary with the zinc/phosphorous content of the additive used. The GM stuff is about $30 for a 16 oz. container. Also, what I've picked up is that using too much can be as bad as not using any. I am leaning toward going with the Rotella T oil, which gets a number of mentions, and if it works out OK maybe changing my other old-timers over to it. I have been using Castrol products for a number of years. A lot of what I've read is on the 50's-70's Brittish car postings. Datsun pushrod engines of that era were, to a great degree engineered/designed take-offs of the BMC motors as Nissan had built Austin vehicles under license during the 50's, or something to that effect. An E1 or J13 engine looks a hell of a lot like an MG or Healy engine of that period, and even a MINI engine to a great degree. Some parts will even interchange. Steve Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 60s oils and before used 1200-1500 PPM (or however it was measured) It was needed back then. Today, most cams are roller and don't need the extra protection of ZDDP ZDDP is not good for todays catalytic converters so less is better. Oil makers have slowly been lowering levels over the years. Some say it was artificially high to begin with so it still protects flat tappet engines even at 400-600 PPM Now I am not ever buying additives, I think they are bullshit expensive and designed to take advantage of flat tappet owners gullibility and fears. I'm also not going to take someone's word that my cam is still protected with todays oils either. The ZDDP controvercy is over thought nonsense. I will continue to buy Dello 400 15W40 engine oil that has close to the same ZDDP levels as when my L series was made and sleep at night. Quote Link to comment
difrangia Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sounds like a plan, Mike. Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 The controversy and scare tactics suck, but when it's a decision between not having to replace a cam and having to, I'd buy the additive. I agree with you Mike. I don't use additives...unless I'm breaking in a cam or firing a new engine for the first time. For a new engine with a new cam and resurfaced lifters, use Redline engine assembly lube or equvalent on all cam surfaces, use cam break in additive in the oil, and ask your machinist what weight of oil he thinks you should use. Depending on the measurements of the main bearing/rod bearing bores/journals, the weight of the oil can change significantly. If it's got .003" clearance on the mains, I would run a 40 wt oil. Quote Link to comment
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