Fulcrum pin

[datzenmike]

I have the thrust bearing shown at the bottom. Actually if you think about it the bearing isn't supporting the vehicle weight if at the top.

[]2eDeYe]

I asked Mike Klotz about making them and he referred me to Benjamin who had a machine shop make them in the past.

 

I PM'd Benjamin so we will wait and see.  If not maybe Mike will come through.

 

 

I got a set from Benjamin as he had extra sets made, nice pieces. Have not installed them yet, still need to get my new kingpins bushed and reamed. 

[Charlie69]

Benjamin has not gotten back to me.  So Mike Klotz is working on a cad drawing.  Wayno if you have any examples of the different sizes for the 320 521 and 620 please let Mike do some measuring.

[wayno]

I have the 320 and 520/521 sizes, don't know about the 620, but I suspect it's the same as the 521.

I only have the lower pins that go in the lower spindle, I don't have any of the pins that go into the kingpin itself, at least not any loose ones.

Benjamin has not gotten back to me.  So Mike Klotz is working on a cad drawing.  Wayno if you have any examples of the different sizes for the 320 521 and 620 please let Mike do some measuring.

[therealdatsunnazi]

thats good to know, maybe we can get some of these made and on hand when people need them 

[Charlie69]

I have the 320 and 520/521 sizes, don't know about the 620, but I suspect it's the same as the 521.

I only have the lower pins that go in the lower spindle, I don't have any of the pins that go into the kingpin itself, at least not any loose ones.

 

Wayno are you saying the 320 520 and the 521 take the same pins?

That is what Mike Klotz needs is the various pins (cotter bolts, Charlie's Wedgets, or Datzenmike's spin- cotter pins, or Charlies Wedgie) that is what Mike Klotz is drawing up. 

 

Outlined in RED.

 

I checked the Datsun Factory Parts Manuals for 1963 320 and the 520-521 and the 620 threw July of 1977 for part numbers.  According to these Datsun Part Manuals this is what the Manuals show:

320 520 521 take the 40023-3000 Pin

620 threw July of 1977 take the 40023-B5000 Pin

After July of 1977 was Ball Joints and Disk Brakes

 

Wayno I know the parts manuals are not 100 percent correct as I have found some discrepancies in them myself.

 

At this point Wayno what ever pins you have that you know what they came out of please get with Mike so he can measure them and take notes of what they came out of.

[wayno]

Mike already knows the 320 pins are smaller, he has been doing so many of these kits that he has to know, he did my NL320.

I thought you were referring to part number 18 at some point, which is another pin, he installed this pin on my kingpin rebuilds he did, so he also knows about that one also.

Funny thing about the 320 pins(part 88), they use the same pin to hold on the column shift transmission levers/arm on the transmission.

I have 320 pins, and 521 pins for part 87 in the diagram above, the 521 pins are larger.

Here is a photo of some used pins, the larger one on the left is for the 521, the others are 320 pins.

Here is a photo of 2 320 pins with nuts on the left(part #88), then another 320 pin without a nut(part #88), then a 521 pin without a nut, then part #18 in new condition that came with a kingpin kit, see how the used 521 pin is larger than the 320 pins left of it.

I am fairly sure that Mike has examples of all these pins, but I will message him with a link to this thread and ask him if I need to bring him any samples.

[mklotz70]

Wayne just pm'd me about this....I haven't seen this thread yet, but I'll go ahead and add my 2 cents. 

 

I've always referred to them as cotter bolts and fulcrum pins.....that's what the manual called them......at least the one I was using at that time. 

 

 

I've noticed on more than one occasion the cotter pin doesn't tighten down all the way in the hole and make full contact with the king pin. You can test this by sticking the bare king pin and tightening the cotter bolt down most of the way not all of the way and you'll see the the cotter pin is snug but the king pin moves around a little.

 

I sand/dremel my cotter pins a bit for this reason.

 

I have noticed this before.  In one of my kingpin rebuild vids, I go over how/why I had to clean the hole up with a drill bit.  With the kingpin removed, the cotter bolt should be able to go all the way through the hole.  Grinding the pin down with a dremel should gain the same result, so I can't think of a reason you couldn't do either.

 

 

 

Also there is some debate on putting the bearing on the top or bottom. I put mine on the bottom. Either or test fit first then put the bearing in last tapping it in gently so you have a nice tight fit all around.

 

The debate is actually about the bearing.....that goes on the bottom.  The debate was over the shims......should they be top/bottom.  If bottom, they would go on top of the bearing.  I have a vid up with my reasoning for where I put them, but I don't recall which way I did it.  It was a youtube vid and a viewer commented on which way it should go.  I'll have to go look up the vid and response to remember what's what.

 

 

 

 

Mike already knows the 320 pins are smaller, he has been doing so many of these kits that he has to know, he did my NL320.

I thought you were referring to part number 18 at some point, which is another pin, he installed this pin on my kingpin rebuilds he did, so he also knows about that one also.

Funny thing about the 320 pins(part 88), they use the same pin to hold on the column shift transmission levers/arm on the transmission.

I have 320 pins, and 521 pins for part 87 in the diagram above, the 521 pins are larger.

Here is a photo of some used pins, the larger one on the left is for the 521, the others are 320 pins.

Here is a photo of 2 320 pins with nuts on the left(part #88), then another 320 pin without a nut(part #88), then a 521 pin without a nut, then part #18 in new condition that came with a kingpin kit, see how the used 521 pin is larger than the 320 pins left of it.

I am fairly sure that Mike has examples of all these pins, but I will message him with a link to this thread and ask him if I need to bring him any samples.

 

Actually Wayne, I didn't realize there were 2 sizes.  I've got 320, 521 and 620 spindles here so I'll have to pull them back out and check them.  If they're different, it's only the diameter that would matter and I should be able to get that dimension off the holes in the dogbones.

[mklotz70]

Charlie is also right about me working on the cotter bolts.  I have NOS ones here for the Canby truck in case I don't get to these soon enough.  Here's a pic of the CAD work of the pin.....and the tool/adapter I will need to help make them.

 

 

[Charlie69]

Wayno Thank you for hoarding all the old Datsuns and Datsun parts.  Without you some of this info would still be lost in incorrect parts manuals.

 

Mike Thank you for doing all this for our old trucks.  I do appreciate you.

 

Denmarkboy Sold on the odd cluster. Please PM your PayPal so I can pay you.

[mklotz70]

You're more than welcome Charlie! :)

Thanks for buying parts! :)

[mklotz70]

I'm doing another on the fulcrum pin, but here's what I have so far.

 

[mklotz70]

[Charlie69]

Excellent Mike!  All cotter bolts same except the 620 threads are metric, got it.

[wayno]

Mike said that until a 320 LCA was taken apart, he didn't know what size that cotter pin was for the 320 Charlie, I say they are smaller, but I will try to take one of my 320 LCAs apart tomorrow just to double check.

I also found an easier way to get them lower cotter pins out, what I do is remove the nut, take the lock washer off, then put the nut back on to just about where it was when the lock washer was on it, then I take another nut and put it on till it hits the first nut, then I tighten them, then I use a punch that fits in the top of the second nut I put on, as it doesn't quite go on all the way, then I tap on it till it bottoms out, then I loosen the nuts a little and repeat, when it bottoms out the second time, I remove the second nut, and turn out the first nut till it is half way off, then I tap on it till it bottoms out, then I take off the nut and push the pin out the rest of the way with my finger, this doesn't work every time, but it works more often than it doesn't.

The reason I use 2 nuts is so that the pin doesn't bend or flare the threaded end of the pin.

[mklotz70]

Mike said that until a 320 LCA was taken apart, he didn't know what size that cotter pin was for the 320 Charlie, I say they are smaller, but I will try to take one of my 320 LCAs apart tomorrow just to double check.

I also found an easier way to get them lower cotter pins out, what I do is remove the nut, take the lock washer off, then put the nut back on to just about where it was when the lock washer was on it, then I take another nut and put it on till it hits the first nut, then I tighten them, then I use a punch that fits in the top of the second nut I put on, as it doesn't quite go on all the way, then I tap on it till it bottoms out, then I loosen the nuts a little and repeat, when it bottoms out the second time, I remove the second nut, and turn out the first nut till it is half way off, then I tap on it till it bottoms out, then I take off the nut and push the pin out the rest of the way with my finger, this doesn't work every time, but it works more often than it doesn't.

The reason I use 2 nuts is so that the pin doesn't bend or flare the threaded end of the pin.

 

The cotter pins are the same...that was verified in the vid.  The part I'm not 100% about is the fulcrum pin length for the 320.  The 320 LCA is narrower at the fulcrum pin or at least a bit different as I recall.  I think I still have a botched Z'd 320 arm in the shed.  I'll dig it out too and compare. 

[therealdatsunnazi]

In the video you say you got the pins out of Mexico ? When was that ? Any idea of still available? Or used fulcrum pins the only way ? besides the $300 kit online

[wayno]

OK, I went to the wrecking yard that has the 1968 Datsun 520, but once I got there they said it had been removed, I had called first, so I was a little upset, I went in anyway to look around, and in the first row was a drum brake 620, so I pulled the pins as a sample, so off I went down the rows looking for Datsuns and there the 68 was still where it was all along, so them guys don't know what is them yards.

I pulled the pins out of the 68 also, they were a lot harder to get out, but I went there on a mission, and I was going to succeed, mission accomplished.

So this morning I pulled out the 2 sets of front suspensions I have in the shed, one is from a 1962 Datsun 320(right assembly), the other was from my early 1966 Datsun 520(left assembly) and I pulled the pins from both of them.

This is how I get them loose to start with, a double nut, I tap on the outside nut, that one is disposable. 

They are the same pins.

Here is everything, it all seems to be the same, even the seals which basically fell apart.

So then I went to the mentioned Vancouver wrecking yard and pulled them pins, the 68 520 pins are on the left, and the early 620 pins are on the right.

Except for the 620 pins being metric, they all seem to be the same, so now I am a little confused, as when I put my U320 suspension together with 521 lower control arms and spindles, I believe that I had to use 2 of the last 3 bigger pins I had, and right now it is to hard to lift the U320 up to check the size of the pins, and I have no 521 suspensions to pull apart, and in the photo above, the 620 pins on the right are a different color, maybe made of a different metal.

[Charlie69]

Mike Klotz says the 320, 520,521 trucks use the same pin and the 620 620 pin dimensions are the same as the earlier trucks except are threaded in metric instead of SAE.

 

Wayno Mike Klotz says the 320, 520,521 trucks use the same pin and the 620 620 pin dimensions are the same as the earlier trucks except are threaded in metric instead of SAE..  The 620 pins appear to be a different color and possibly made from a different material.

 

My research revealed:

According to these Datsun Part Manuals this is what the Manuals show:

320 520 521 take the 40023-3000 Pin

620 threw July of 1977 take the 40023-B5000 Pin

After July of 1977 was Ball Joints and Disk Brakes

[wayno]

I am wondering where that far left pin in the photo below came from, it is almost the same length as the 320 pins, but larger round, I only have Datsun pins here, and I used to have 3 of the one on the left until recently.

[mklotz70]

In the video you say you got the pins out of Mexico ? When was that ? Any idea of still available? Or used fulcrum pins the only way ? besides the $300 kit online

 

I just went and looked it up in my purchase history......I was wrong.  I got them from holee138 in singapore.  I've dealt with him quite a bit over the years.  He has more listed on ebay right now.  Looks like he's selling them individually.....truck has two.

 

eBay item number:

371228605748

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DATSUN-620-PICK-UP-LOWER-PIN-KIT-JAPAN-NOS-ONE-PIECE-a-/371228605748?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item566ef2fd34

[mklotz70]

I am wondering where that far left pin in the photo below came from, it is almost the same length as the 320 pins, but larger round, I only have Datsun pins here, and I used to have 3 of the one on the left until recently.

 

That's the pin that holds the kingpin in.

[Charlie69]

 

I just went and looked it up in my purchase history......I was wrong.  I got them from holee138 in singapore.  I've dealt with him quite a bit over the years.  He has more listed on ebay right now.  Looks like he's selling them individually.....truck has two.

 

eBay item number:

371228605748

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DATSUN-620-PICK-UP-LOWER-PIN-KIT-JAPAN-NOS-ONE-PIECE-a-/371228605748?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item566ef2fd34

 

I also have purchased from holee138 and the parts are quality.  The shipping is slow  up to 90 days one time.

[wayno]

No it is not Mike, I thought of that, so I went out and pulled the kingpin cotter pin, from left to right is a lower 320 pin, then the mystery what I thought was a 521 pin, and then the kingpin pin from my 1962 Datsun U320 assembly, each is progressively bigger.

 

That's the pin that holds the kingpin in.

[mklotz70]

No it is not Mike, I thought of that, so I went out and pulled the kingpin cotter pin, from left to right is a lower 320 pin, then the mystery what I thought was a 521 pin, and then the kingpin pin from my 1962 Datsun U320 assembly, each is progressively bigger.

Ahh....you're right....I didn't notice the threads being about the same.....the kingpin ones are bigger.  No clue what it's from.  Maybe OZ had different requirements or the original was drilled out and that's an oversized replacement.  Interesting.