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Oil filter on a l20b


Scgreen620

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Fram PH8A. Yes, for a Ford Ranger.

 

My dad has used Fram PH8A for years, and I'm using one now. Never once a problem. Old Fram filters were cardboard crap. New ones are better.

 

This is counter to what I have seen. I guess the thing to do is sped $2 or $3 on a fram and cut it open and look. Technically you may be right they are 'better' than before, but not as good or 'better' than the good ones mentioned here like WIX..

 

 

any opinions on Royal Purple filters? and be sure to use plenty of neodymium magnets on your filter to catch all the free floaters.

 

Buy one, cut open, and compare to a WIX (or whatever) At best they are made by the same company and an extra is added to the cost for the name.

 

Magnets? On the outside? The best magnetic shield is a a steel enclosure around the object to be shielded.

 

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This is very simplified but placed on the outside of a steel enclosure, the magnetic lines of force will travel through and along the steel easier than penetrating and out the other side.

 

If you want this to work, cut the magnets up and put inside the filter. Keep in mind that billions of engines use oil filters and steel particles are not a concern to the internal bearings. The filter will remove anything large enough to do damage, it's what it does. Change the filter on time and no worries.

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If you looked at the jeep forum link, you clearly saw that the same company, and even the same factory can produce similar looking products, including oil filters with widely varying degrees of quality.

 

This is why I use OEM filters on my vehicles.  Motorcraft on Ford engines.  AC/Delco on GM engines.  Nissan filters on Datsun (and Nissan) engines.

Car companies make money selling cars.  That is where their profit comes from.  It is to the car company's advantage to have a reputation of quality, reliability, and many other favourable factors.  

Lets focus on the oil filter that a car company puts on their engines.  If the car company goes too cheap, and compromises quality of an oil filter, at some point, that increases the probability of an oil filter related engine failure.  Directly, that affects the car company, because that may lead to having to do an warranty engine replacement.  One warranty engine replacement will pay for A LOT of oil filters.  it will cost less to specify higher quality oil filters from whatever company makes the oil filters, than to replace the engine.  Never mind if you have a new car, and have to get the engine replaced under warranty, for whatever reason, you are going to tell your friends, you may trade the "lemon"  car in, and never buy that brand of car again.

Because of these factors, it is not in the car company's favor to "go cheap" on oil filters.

 

Now, lets take a company that derives a lot or most of its profits from selling filters, to the after market auto community.  You HAVE to make a profit on selling oil filters.  You have to reduce costs on each oil filter you make, to stay competitive with the other oil filter companies, and that is always compromising the quality you can put in the oil filters.  Remember, a car company can afford to lose money on the oil filter, because it makes profit selling cars, not oil filters. 

 

When a car company designs an engine, they test a lot of things, on the engine design.  I have been told GM spends MILLIONS of dollars on lubrication system design, and even on oil filters.  I am sure Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes Benz, VW, Nissan, Toyota, and every other car company does the same.   The oil filter the car company recommends for their engine is the one tested and designed for that engine, or at least one that has a history of working with that engine design.

 

One thing unique in a Datsun "L" engine, at least the L-16, and L-18 is this.  The block has an oil filter relief valve in the block.  It is the ball you see next to the pipe you screw the oil filter on, under the oil filter.  Because of this, the OEM Nissan oil filter does not have a relief  valve in the filter.   Most aftermarket oil filters do have the relief valve in the filters.  This is done so one filter can be used on more engines, and the oil filter company does not have to make as many different types of filters.

 

So maybe the current Fram filter is a better quality than the one from a few years ago.  What is to say that after a few "factory tours" by auto journalists, some favourable articles in car magazines, that also happen to receive advertising money for the oil filter company, that in a few years, the interest for profits creeps back in, and the filter quality is again compromised.  

 

Another minor issue.  When was the last time you saw an ad for a Nissan (or other car company) oil filters?  You probably have not seen one. 

Now when was the last time you say an ad for "pick your oil filter oil company" ?  Probably a lot.  Remember the advertising is paid for out of the gross profit from oil filter sales.  That advertising cost is taking away from the amount of money that can be used on quality, materials, and design of the oil filter.

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I think fram had a slogan years ago. It was an auto mechanic saying "Ya pays me now or ya pays me later" found it....

 

 

 

"A fram oil filter doesn't cost much." How embarrassing that they said that. Most oil filter do a job. Some do a superior job. If you like the comfort of knowing you have a good oil filter get a fram. If you like the superior comfort and a good sleep at night to worry about things other than your oil filter don't buy a fram. "Ya saves a few dollahs now or you pay for it later"

 

 

 

Bull shit. Nobody rebuilds engines today... they throw away if not under warranty. Four cylinder cars do not work harder than 6 or 8 cylinders. Today's cars last hundreds of thousands of miles reliably, mainly because of EFI and perfectly controlled fuel mixtures and emissions controls. Oils are far and away better than a car of the 50s and 60s that were doing good at 75K miles and lucky to turn 100K.

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All I know is I AM NOT DRIVING THIRTY MILES to get your damn precious NAPA oil filter! Not when I can drive less than five to Walmart for a Purolator. What is the deal? Is this site sponsored by Napa or something?

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If you looked at the jeep forum link, you clearly saw that the same company, and even the same factory can produce similar looking products, including oil filters with widely varying degrees of quality.

 

This is why I use OEM filters on my vehicles.  Motorcraft on Ford engines.  AC/Delco on GM engines.  Nissan filters on Datsun (and Nissan) engines.

Car companies make money selling cars.  That is where their profit comes from.  It is to the car company's advantage to have a reputation of quality, reliability, and many other favourable factors.  

Lets focus on the oil filter that a car company puts on their engines.  If the car company goes too cheap, and compromises quality of an oil filter, at some point, that increases the probability of an oil filter related engine failure.  Directly, that affects the car company, because that may lead to having to do an warranty engine replacement.  One warranty engine replacement will pay for A LOT of oil filters.  it will cost less to specify higher quality oil filters from whatever company makes the oil filters, than to replace the engine.  Never mind if you have a new car, and have to get the engine replaced under warranty, for whatever reason, you are going to tell your friends, you may trade the "lemon"  car in, and never buy that brand of car again.

Because of these factors, it is not in the car company's favor to "go cheap" on oil filters.

 

Now, lets take a company that derives a lot or most of its profits from selling filters, to the after market auto community.  You HAVE to make a profit on selling oil filters.  You have to reduce costs on each oil filter you make, to stay competitive with the other oil filter companies, and that is always compromising the quality you can put in the oil filters.  Remember, a car company can afford to lose money on the oil filter, because it makes profit selling cars, not oil filters. 

 

When a car company designs an engine, they test a lot of things, on the engine design.  I have been told GM spends MILLIONS of dollars on lubrication system design, and even on oil filters.  I am sure Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes Benz, VW, Nissan, Toyota, and every other car company does the same.   The oil filter the car company recommends for their engine is the one tested and designed for that engine, or at least one that has a history of working with that engine design.

 

One thing unique in a Datsun "L" engine, at least the L-16, and L-18 is this.  The block has an oil filter relief valve in the block.  It is the ball you see next to the pipe you screw the oil filter on, under the oil filter.  Because of this, the OEM Nissan oil filter does not have a relief  valve in the filter.   Most aftermarket oil filters do have the relief valve in the filters.  This is done so one filter can be used on more engines, and the oil filter company does not have to make as many different types of filters.

 

So maybe the current Fram filter is a better quality than the one from a few years ago.  What is to say that after a few "factory tours" by auto journalists, some favourable articles in car magazines, that also happen to receive advertising money for the oil filter company, that in a few years, the interest for profits creeps back in, and the filter quality is again compromised.  

 

Another minor issue.  When was the last time you saw an ad for a Nissan (or other car company) oil filters?  You probably have not seen one. 

Now when was the last time you say an ad for "pick your oil filter oil company" ?  Probably a lot.  Remember the advertising is paid for out of the gross profit from oil filter sales.  That advertising cost is taking away from the amount of money that can be used on quality, materials, and design of the oil filter.

 

You do realize they do not manufacture their own oil filters. I dunno who makes Nissan's, but I know for a fact Motorcraft is a Purolator, ACDELCO is a Fram, they used to made by Wix, but GM decided to cut costs.

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All I know is I AM NOT DRIVING THIRTY MILES to get your damn precious NAPA oil filter! Not when I can drive less than five to Walmart for a Purolator. What is the deal? Is this site sponsored by Napa or something?

You do realize they do not manufacture their own oil filters. I dunno who makes Nissan's, but I know for a fact Motorcraft is a Purolator, ACDELCO is a Fram, they used to made by Wix, but GM decided to cut costs.

Buy some of your precious purolator and fram filters as well as some of the brands mentioned and cut them open. Open out and count the pleats and get the surface area of the filter material. Take a good look at the quality of materials used inside. Draw your own conclusions as to how well hot melt glue and cardboard will stand up. Fram make shitty filters and have for a long time. Today's cars run cleaner longer than those 20-30 years ago and a shitty filter can get by. Give up my NAPA filter? from my cold dead hands...

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I do realize "fill in the blank car company" does not make oil filters.

The car company comes up with the specifications they require in an oil filter, and the oil filter manufacturer make the filter to those specifications.

 

If the same oil filter company also makes oil filters for aftermarket use, you can be assured, they are not the same as the OEM filters

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All I know is my old truck's engine has survived 35 years using cheap Fram or Purolator filters, and cheap, conventional oil. And going by the badly neglected mess I found it in, I don't think either of the previous owners went out of their way or spent a lot of money to buy quality parts! Hell, I have no idea when the last owner even changed the oil. It was black as tar and almost as thick, and the orange Fram filter was covered in surface rust, but the level was full, and it was still running, I drove it home.

 

As for filters being made differently, I don't doubt that and have seen proof. I knew one guy when I worked at the Ford dealer who used Amsoil oil and Wix filters. He had over 100,000 miles on his F150 and had done exactly FOUR oil changes, with filter changes every 12,000. But to the contrary, I have also seen Crown Victorias owned by taxi drivers approach 700,000 miles on the engine using Fram filters and the cheapest oil they could find. Seeing how those Arabs and Jamaicans barely maintained a car made me never want to ride in a taxicab ever again for the rest of my life!

 

So... you guys arguments are invalid! Go waste your money on Wix, Nissan or Napa filters, Royal Purple oil, Amsoil, whatever. I am going to keep using the same oil and filters my dad and grandfather used for decades...

 

 

 

 

Off topic, how many times has this topic came up here and been debated? :P

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Looks like we're having the Fram oil filter debate again.

 

Unless you're breaking in an engine or you happen to live in the Kalahari desert, any filter is going to do the job. A freakin coffee filter is probably good enough. Just be sure to keep the oil fresh and topped up. Change the oil every 3500, 5000, 10000 miles, depending on the oil and the engine. And change the filter along with the oil. No amount of crappy filter is going to compromise the life-span of a worn-in street motor. If it does, you'll probably be too old by then to care.

 

It's not worth the brain cells lost arguing about it.

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All I know is I AM NOT DRIVING THIRTY MILES to get your damn precious NAPA oil filter! Not when I can drive less than five to Walmart for a Purolator. What is the deal? Is this site sponsored by Napa or something?

 

As a matter of fact, when the site needed money to keep going, I donated.  And I work at NAPA.  So yes, I would say Ratsun.net IS supported by NAPA!   :D  And Autozone too 'cause metalmonkey.  But I would drive 30 miles for a good oil filter.  We have annual filter sales where all Gold filters are half off, twice a year.  That means you can get a 1515 filter for about $3.  For that price you can buy many of them and stock up so you don't have to drive 30 miles every time you want to change your oil.  In fact, if you give me your address, I will send you a NAPA filter, FOR FREE!!!!   ;)

 

And yes, you can run Pennzoil and a Fram filter all day long and you probably won't kill your engine if you drive like a grandma.  If you drive like I do and bang off the upper rpm all the time at autocross, you can bet your sweet ass I'm paying for a "better-than-average" oil filter.

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The FRAM company was sold in the late 60s, your father and grandfather especially, likely bought good filters when they were the original company, the new owners have been living off the name since, selling wallmart quality products made as cheap as they can be made, all it has to be is orange and black, right, that's a FRAM, they make good filters, well they used to anyway.

I buy WIX because I don't change my oil enough, I just keep it full and drive the shit out of it, I figure WIX has a less likely chance of sucking flat because I didn't change the oil filter when I should have, and they will suck flat eventually, I have sucked a few fuel filters flat over the years because of not changing them, it's always the cheap ones that suck flat/collapse, I have never had a good one collapse.

To each there own, saving a couple bucks a year just don't make my top 40 list on something like this, it's actually not even on my top 100.

 

There are a few companys that rebuild parts I won't be buying from anymore either, I have had a master brake cylinder fail out of the box from Raybestos, it was rebuilt somewhere and it was assembled wrong, I pulled it apart to see what was up, I guess Chinese workers that don't drive don't understand the important role the brake system plays in a one and a half ton vehicle.

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I wish I could say that was uncommon Wayno, but brake master cylinders all come from China now.  I don't know of any besides Wilwood (maybe) that aren't made there, short of the remaining few rebuilds available.  Sometimes it takes a few to get a good one.  One thing I will say is bench bleed them, and be very gentle at the start.  I've found the rubber seals inside tend to stick on the bore.  If you just push them in first time, there's a greater chance of rolling the seals and then it's done.  I do a little tap tap tappy until I can feel it move.  I mean like a .5mm tap, then a 1mm tap, then a 3mm tap.  Etc.

 

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All I'm saying is that I can't believe we're still arguing about it. Change it often or never. Use a good one or a used one off your grandfather's Case tractor. Just reap what you sow.

 

High RPM or high HP engines I would not use an inferior filter eithere HRH. For the record, I buy OEM filters by the case from Toyota for my family car and I pay $18 each for the filters on my Cummins, but for the misc cars, trucks and tractors/equipment I have around the property, I use whatever I have on the shelf. I even go as far as to use the oil out of my Cummins for my John Deere diesel and I use the Mobil 1 oil out of my wife's Scion for the misc other small engines I need to keep running.

 

But I would not drive 30 miles for a good filter either...I would order a case of them from Summit and have them here next day for free.

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All I know is I AM NOT DRIVING THIRTY MILES to get your damn precious NAPA oil filter! Not when I can drive less than five to Walmart for a Purolator. What is the deal? Is this site sponsored by Napa or something?

 

Wait til a filter sale then buy 2 years worth. Duh. I would drive 30 miles for assurance that a filter wasn't going to sabotage my engine and stab me in the back. Do what you want.

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 I would drive 30 miles for assurance that a filter wasn't going to sabotage my engine and stab me in the back. Do what you want.

I guess that's my point. A crappy filter is not going to sabotage your engine. If the engine pops, it aint the filter. You've got other problems.

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I guess that's my point. A crappy filter is not going to sabotage your engine. If the engine pops, it aint the filter. You've got other problems.

 

Ditto. Unless the filter blows apart causing you to lose all the oil, then nothing is going to happen to the engine.

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I had a VW powered sand buggy, and had a remote full flow oil filter adapter on the engine.  I revved it up once, when it was cold, and it popped the gasket out from under the oil filter.  

That is why I let my engine warm up for a little bit, before driving it.

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Super thanks to Wayno for posting the thread link to Fram-Scam brand Oil fliters.

 

I just whipped one of those piles of shart on an L20B that I'm in the process of finishing a complete rebuild.

 

I have been planning on changing the oil & filter immediately after the break in process figuring that the filter

would catch all of the assembly lube and any fine grit.

 

I will be pulling that junk filter off first thing tomorrow evening.

 

More pleats = more surface area = better ! even if it had larger micron porosity.

 

 

http://vid657.photobucket.com/albums/uu297/DUBLXERO_GTX/1.mp4

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WOW I can't stop saying Thanks to HRH for laying down the photos for all of us !

 

and to Wayno for reposting the thread link.

 

Up to last week I was one of the fools that thought Fram was the Goods,

 

I admit it ... I was  wooed by some fuckin wrinkle paint, grip . Lol

 

I guess that I was under the Impression that most filters were very close to the same quality as far as internal pleated media.

 

DAMNIT Really ? Shitty paper board and glue for cartridge end caps ? Serious lack of pleats/cubic inches ?

 

 

Photo compliments of HRH

 

 

framsucks4.jpg

 

 

 

 

My L20B project

 

 

20141209_192526.jpg

 

20141209_193130.jpg

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