Well Used 720 Diesel Won't Start... its like banging my head against a wall

[TrouseLife]

I'm in Chattanooga currently. I mostly spend my time between Chattanooga, Knoxville, Asheville, and Dahlonega, GA - the Southern Blue Ridge Mountains section of the Appalachians. My family (and where I spend the holidays) is in central Alabama.

 

Oh, and the IP Controller I've got looks really good... sitting in a milk crate behind the passenger seat ;-P

I'm still thinking it'll be optimal to just run a push/pull choke cable rather than installing my newer IP Controller.

 

Paying the $36 core charge seems mighty cheaps to be able to rebuild my current starter and have another one around. Can't say its not a bad idea, and from what I read about starter rebuilds is that simply cleaning up and de-gunking it goes much further than figuring outhow to braze on new brushes as well. Luckily my pops and brother are much more electrically minded than me.

 

New starter gets here on tuesday... lets see how this goes.

 

 

TrouseLife

[TrouseLife]

Might as well ask some questions as I wait on this new starter:

 

So, my speedometer doesnt work. It hasn't worked for a (long) while from what i understand from the previous owner. The odometer reads 186,xxx-ish, and that's laughable as well. The speedo cable has been replaced, and the transmission is not original to this truck as well as having been rebuilt this year. Just can't seem to get any spin to the cable. /perplexed/

Would there be a way that I'm missing to fix this issue at the back of transmission? cable? dash?

 

I'd also like to eventually install a tachometer so that its easier for other people to drive my truck (especially if the speedo still refuses to work) without having to listen for the engine to say when to shift. I wouldn't even know where to start with this project. Mechanically measured off the motor? the alternator? This is quite different than my drive-by-wire TDI.

 

My radiator fan bearing feels loose but ever so slightly. I have it in my head that its beginning to gradually have more and more play to it, and as I continue to maintain proper tension on my belt it wears worn bearings faster. Am I making things up now? Or should I just continue to keep the belt tight? I honestly just don't want to pull the radiator and front end apart to replace a bearing that might not need it yet.

 

I'd also like to do some interior work this winter and really really really want to figure out how to fit a split bench seat in this king cab. I'd assume this would be a from the floor up modification from a pick-a-parts yard score out of another make of small truck. Has anybody else made this split bench goal a reality? or learned better?

 

Perhaps I'm just crazier than i think i am.

[wayno]

First of all, you have buckets in your kingcab, correct?

 

This is the tach I use in my diesels now.

http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=CeEWJU9SEVMyNF9DK-QPglYGQAtHCspAHieCLko0BwceejoYCCAQQAygFYMn-yI30pNQZoAH3j7zLA8gBB6oEJ0_Q107velb29p0uBoiH4_J7KXCmdCYYRWXF6bYrkF-PqnzsIb65XcAFBaAGJoAH8e_DNIgHAZAHAqgHpr4b4BKEian10OGYyfYB&sig=AOD64_2QfLXu5dBQlkLKOUoy5Ol0ZZ0SsA&ctype=5&rct=j&q=&ved=0CCwQwg8&adurl=http://www.partdeal.com/isspro-electric-tach-4000rpm-2-pulse-2in-r8503.html%3Fzmam%3D74973193%26zmas%3D1%26zmac%3D4%26zmap%3D77173401

 

I used to buy tinytach, but they sent me one that didn't work right and did not fix it, so I don't buy them anymore, and I tell my story when people consider buying one. :(

 

I don't think you can replace the bearing in the water pump, you just need to buy another water pump.

Might as well ask some questions as I wait on this new starter:

 

So, my speedometer doesnt work. It hasn't worked for a (long) while from what i understand from the previous owner. The odometer reads 186,xxx-ish, and that's laughable as well. The speedo cable has been replaced, and the transmission is not original to this truck as well as having been rebuilt this year. Just can't seem to get any spin to the cable. /perplexed/

Would there be a way that I'm missing to fix this issue at the back of transmission? cable? dash?

 

I'd also like to eventually install a tachometer so that its easier for other people to drive my truck (especially if the speedo still refuses to work) without having to listen for the engine to say when to shift. I wouldn't even know where to start with this project. Mechanically measured off the motor? the alternator? This is quite different than my drive-by-wire TDI.

 

My radiator fan bearing feels loose but ever so slightly. I have it in my head that its beginning to gradually have more and more play to it, and as I continue to maintain proper tension on my belt it wears worn bearings faster. Am I making things up now? Or should I just continue to keep the belt tight? I honestly just don't want to pull the radiator and front end apart to replace a bearing that might not need it yet.

 

I'd also like to do some interior work this winter and really really really want to figure out how to fit a split bench seat in this king cab. I'd assume this would be a from the floor up modification from a pick-a-parts yard score out of another make of small truck. Has anybody else made this split bench goal a reality? or learned better?

 

Perhaps I'm just crazier than i think i am.

[TrouseLife]

Yes, bucket seats indeed. I'd assume Id need to find a 60/40 split with room for the gear shifter similar to the early 90's Toyotas rather than the flat front bench seats that are more common. I always feel like I'm reaching for the glove box when shifting into 5th, and I'd assume the shift lever has more throw to it than most of the newer trucks with their small shifters.

 

 

Eh? not as much bench as I'd want. Just wondering if anybody has already gone down this path. Kinda just hoping for a pick-a-part easter egg at this point.

I know i said the word "Toyota." I apologize.

 

 

I like that tach. Magnets too. Why didnt i think of that? Works just like a bicycle speedometer.

 

 

Sigh. New water pump it shall be then. Oh how i love new parts.

[84720FourWheel]

Fan clutch bearing is not serviceable. I drilled mine off when the electric fans went in to reduce clutter. Sucks that whenever my waterpump goes out I'll have to do it again.

[TrouseLife]

The starter has arrived. It is a refurbished part. The mounts are the same, solenoid looks the same; but the starter motor itself is definitely bigger. Much bigger and it wouldn't have been able to fit. The side of the starter body just barely touches the motor when bolted in.

 

Here are the pictures:

Size Difference

 

And from above.

 

 

 

So now its installed, and I've still got nothing when trying to crank it. Oh, and the injector lines are bled too. The manual pump worked much better than last time. Carried the battery down to the AutoZone to test/charge it, and it tested bad twice in three tests. It is 3 and a half years old, but I was hoping I'd get some more life out of it after I installed my auxiliary battery last year. So about to walk back and buy a new one.

 

[What happened when I went to crank it: First time I keyed up, I just ran the glow plugs. Keyed up again, ran the glow plugs, and went to start - nothing. /scratched head/ When I keyed it up again, the relays went crazy clicking, and the "On" beeps sounded horrible. This says improper voltage to me, and I then go get it tested.]

 

 

**Also** I desperately need to replace my air intake hose between my filter can and the large metal connector of the air intake. It is almost in the two pictures above but barely cut out. It is a ~2.5" ID flexible hose with hose clamps at each end. This hose of mine is shredded in multiple places, and I've just wrapped it in duct tape to make it solid again. Originally it was a rubberized wire-coil hose I believe, but I can't track down anything similar at auto parts stores, hardware stores, or even plumbing supply stores. My only other idea is to check at a RV supply store. The duct tape works but looks shabby and has to be replaced each time I remove the hose. Has anyone found a proper replacement or figured out a work-around?

 

 

Thanks,

TrouseLife

[wayno]

I use electrical tape to fix that hose, but mine are not shredded either, there is no OEM replacement that I know of.

 

The starter you received is a direct drive unit, it is an early unit as far as I know, they don't work as good when it is cold, the gear reduction starters like your old one work better when it is cold, they both work fine under normal circumstances.

When you say you get nothing, do you mean it doesn't turn over, or do you mean it doesn't hit?

If you are just getting clicking now, or the engine turns over very slowly, the battery is toast, or the cable going from the battery to the starter is bad, or has a bad connection at the battery or starter connections.

 

Just because the glow plug light in the dash lights up, doesn't mean you have power to the glow plugs, it's never going to start if the glow plugs have no power when the engine is cold.

 

I think I have already said this, but here we go again,

 

You have a good battery, and all the connections are clean, correct?

You connected the starter activation wire, correct?

Your fuel filters have been changed, correct?

The injection pump controller arm has been disconnected from the injection pump(IP), correct?

You have tested with a light or volt meter that you have power to the glow plugs when you turn the key on, correct?

 

When you turn it over, you cannot just keep turning it over continuously, it will ruin the starter if it gets to hot, if you cannot touch the starter because it's to hot, you turned it over to long.

 

OK, now if it starts but dies after running for less than a minute, that would be a fuel supply issue, I believe air would be in the line between the filter and the IP.

 

Do not assume that all the things above are working, you need to know the glow plugs have power, you need to know the injection pump is in the correct position, you need to know you have fuel.

[TrouseLife]

Good news everyone,

 

after replacing the battery, glow plugs, and starter, bleeding the injector lines, and getting a bit more juice from a jumper battery, the diesel datsun purrs again.

 

 

The old battery was assuredly bad, and with the new one in there, it was short work to get her started up again. The glow plugs were still getting power (even with the old battery) as I ensured testing them while warming them. I paid attention to how much time the new starter was spinning to be sure not to burn up a brand new one. Also, the engine will continue getting its xmas presents as I continue to replace parts and fluids once down in Alabama with the family.

 

Thanks for all the support Wayno and friends,

TrouseLife

 

 

...Now to go drive my baby around the block. Its been too long.

[wayno]

This is good news, and you know a lot more about your diesel engine now, so you can help others if they have issues.

I am happy it is running now, it gets frustrating sometimes, but your on the road again.  :thumbup:

[All Diesels]

I see this posting is 4 years old but this goes alone with my problems on my 82 SD 22.   A few days ago I had been working on this little diesel a lot.  So I bleed all the injectors and it will still not start, it was probably around 50 degrees.  The engine cranks over real good.  I pull it and it starts immediately ??.    I let it warm up a little and put it in my shop, I find out it has no power to the glow plugs.  My timer works when i turn on the key, beeps for about ten seconds, but i am not getting power to the Glow plugs.  I actually think i have more than one problem.  I have a block heater and after it has been plugged in for a while the engine is nice and warm when i feel the top of the valve cover.  I do have meters and test lights, I just don't know what i should do.  I want to make this rig as simple as possible.  Last time i checked my injection pump controller was working, I am going to check that again tomorrow. 

I really need to get this little rig to start up on it own with having to pull start it.  I am alone most of the time.  Help will be appreciated. 

[All Diesels]

Some further info, All my fuseable links seem to be okay. 

[wayno]

If your not getting power to your glow plus then something is wrong with the fusible links or the glow relay, and unless it is warm outside the starter is not going to start it.

If you use a heavy wire to jump the glow plugs from the battery to the rear glow plug for 30 seconds on the first start of the day and it starts then you know for sure the glow plugs are not getting juice.

Check for power at the rear glow plug when someone else turns the key on with a analog meter with a needle or a test light, the moment they turn the key on it should have power, if no power then turn the key off immediately, find the glow plug relay output side and turn the key on again, if no power turn off the key, move to the input side of the glow plug relay, turn the key on and you should have power, if no power check the fusible links again.

To check the fusible links you need to unplug the plugs connected to them, then with the large plug still connected to the battery make sure you have power to all 4 wires at the plugs you unplugged, if no power you need to figure out what to do as these fusible links are no longer available.

[All Diesels]

The Glow Plug relay is working,  Also I have a small black wire there that is not hooked up to any thing.  Would like to hook it up to the output side but not sure if i should.  So when i turn the Key on there is power to the out put side of the glow plug but no power to the rear glow plug.  I get the plug apart that is just a few inches from the relay, spray some WD 40 on the connectors as i couldn't find my electrical contact cleaner, did same to the other small plug near the rear glow plug.  Try to start the engine and it starts almost immeidately, but i did have the block heater plugged in for a while this morning.   So Wayno you got me checking the right things and now it starts right up, I am very happy about that.  I am learning more all the time.  So now i am having a great day.  So thank you Wayno.  

[wayno]

I am happy you figured it out, You are Welcome.

I only have one black wire in that area and it has a eye end on it, that wire goes to the dual wire plug with the white wire with a blue line, that black wire is grounded to the glow plug relay mount screw.

Another thing I forgot to mention is about the wire that goes to the oil pressure sender, if your engine refuses to start unless you remove the arm going from the injection pump controller to the injection pump arm, and the moment it starts running the arm moves to the run position when not connected, when you remove that wire from the sender it takes the low oil pressure out of the loop, then when you turn the key on the controller moves to the start/run position right away instead waiting till oil pressure builds up, my 720 is messed up, I cannot have it connected as it will not start, but once running it shuts the engine down but it will not start again until I remove the arm or wire, wire is easier to remove, so I put a mechanical oil pressure gauge in the truck and I leave that wire off the sender and my engine starts and stops like normal, something is wrong with something in my electrical system as I have changed out the DPC module, injection pump controller, and the glow plug timer and nothing changed, if that wire was connected to the oil pressure sender my engine would not start.

Sometimes the wiring harness plugs lose electrical continuity and need to be unplugged and plugged back in, I run into this all the time with these diesel engines, especially the plug going to the injection pump controller, I get asked all the time by people on craigslist because I am was selling diesel stuff why their engine starts just fine but it will not shut off, this is because the injection pump controller has stopped working in the run position, they come to my house and I unplug that plug and plug it back together and everything works fine again, I try to explain it via emails but most don't understand what I am talking about.