Sr20VE's or SR20DET and Dogleg 5

[nb6179505]

I currently run an l16 with 32/36 on a matching dogleg 5 spd. Looking into engine swaps now!

 

Question is, anyone know anything about sr20ve? They're NA, so less shit to put in the bay than a turbo with all its components, ie intercooler. I know sr20det's are popular but the sr20ve has variable valve timing for some equivalent numbers as the turbo sr20. 

 

I just can't get the transmission with the sr20ve, so will it bolt right up to the dogleg 5?

[DrRocks0]

Highly doubt it will bolt up with the dogleg. Most people when the sway the sr20 in they take the trans too. There is a difference between the FRD and RWD blocks as well so make sure you get the right one when you pickup your motor. 

[Farmer Joe]

SRs in any form, have a different bell-housing pattern than the L series. 

 

the dogleg not only wont bolt up, but its very weak and would take a dump if you could use it. 

 

you'll need an SR trans for sure to do the SR swap. 

[nb6179505]

thanks guys for the information, now to source the sr20 whether it be det or ve

[datzenmike]

The VE won't make comparable power as the DET, plus the DET has potential for even more power.

 

Your dogleg is strong enough for a 78hp  L16 does this answer our question?

 

The only SR20VE or otherwise were in FWD cars here, so yours will have to be an import engine. If import, get one with the 5 or 6 speed attached and the ECU.

 

I would look into a KA24de first. (about 150 hp stock, gobs of low end torque) They are in the D21 trucks and all are 5 speeds. (car S13/14 DEs are heavier) Billions made and lots around and there are stock and aftermarket parts available. Good luck finding SR parts less than a month away let alone even identifying the part.

 

 

Have you swapped a newer EFI engine into an older carb vehicle?

[MicroMachinery]

If I'm not mistaken, the sr20ve came in automatic applications only, so you'd need a flywheel and clutch to make it manual. Also, the solenoid pack on the back of the head makes fitment into a rwd application a bit awkward.

[paradime]

I think Mike is right on the money with the KA over the sr20ve. Here's the thing, the VE is rare and more money. While in terms of usable power it does a bit better than the KA (187hp and 145 pound ft VE. vs. KA at 150 hp and 160 pound ft) the price for more power is exponentially higher than the KA. 

 

Here's my take;  VE is a high revving motor with a broader power curve, and in a light little car like the 510 the loss in torque would be negligible. On the down side, because of the complexity of the VVT system on the VE, it's harder to modify, upgrade, tune, etc. For instance, the s13 SR20DET has loads of aftermarket support, but because of the VVT and low port intake on the s14 and s15 there is much less support.

 

With the money you'd save getting a KA you could tweak it to make more power. The KA is a very accessible well supported platform, and in terms of upgrade potential there is no comparison. The KA might not be as glamorous, but it was the workhorse of Nissan for almost two decades and it was imported to the US in huge numbers. I think there is much greater long term happy potential in the bare knuckle low tech KA. 

[nb6179505]

no i haven't swapped an efi engine, did have a 73 2 door sedan that had a ka24e, torque was a monster. sr20det sounds like it

 

the sr20 was actually a sr20 vvl from a nissan primera, so it is jdm not from a sentra. i think they're still fwd so not an option

 

sr20det it is, craigslist here in california doesn't even show ka24de's...

[paradime]

If you're going the DET route look for an s13 sr20det Blacktop. Newer model than the redtop, so likely less milage. Start saving your money though, because the motor is the cheap part. You'll need to upgrade everything to handle that much power. Before you start spending $ there's lots of great build threads out there you should start studying. When doing a swap like this, knowledge is power.

[DrRocks0]

Yeah you are going to need a rad, intercooler setup, possibly a top mount intercooler with custom exhaust unless you convert to rack and pinion, new fuel pump.  You should also do breaks because once you get it up and running stopping is going to be an issue.  Consider coilovers and wide tires.  You will also blow through a rear diff if you like to drive medium hard so start saving for that as well.  Consider you are at least doubling the original horsepower of the car. The first week I had my sr20det up and running healthily I sheared the wheel studs off on one wheel.... You are going to find all sorts of fun problems. 

[EastBay521]

 The first week I had my sr20det up and running healthily I sheared the wheel studs off on one wheel....

I love the sound of that...

[therealdatsunnazi]

the rwd sr20 bellhousing wont bolt to the fwd sr20ve block, you will need to get a rwd sr20de and then a sr20ve and do the head swap, drill and tap for oil for the vvl, and get a sr20ve 20v crank angle sensor since the fwd head on a rwd app puts the distributor in the firewall, not a lot of work but can get spendy, another thing if you did the ve head on rwd block you would want to get the ve oil pump it is a higher flowing pump, there was a thread on nico of a guys using a fwd engine and rwd trans and has to do some custom mounting with the bellhousing and starter 

 

also the ka24de and the sr20ve head are better designed in a way, properly shimmed sr20 heads dont usually pop rockers, but a lot of times they do to, the ka24de and the sr20ve dont have these issues, 

[paradime]

A parts list for an SR Dime swap might look something like this:

 

6 point roll cage body bonded, 

Willwood big brake kit

Spherical ball joints all round,

Adjustable control arms, 

Coil overs. 

Cam Toe adjustable rear X-member

Bump steer spacers tuned to ride hight

Flipped and razed steering pick up points on the front X-member

Steering box stabilizer bracket

Internal surge tank EFI high pressure pump

Fuel lines

Rad inter cooler and hoses

Blow off valve and waste gate

Top mount exhaust manifold ceramic coating

Custom down pipe ceramic coating

3" exhaust

Tranny mount.

Wiring specialties s13 universal wiring harness. 

s13 blacktop SR20DET 

05 to 07, WRX sti R180 LSD dif

Stub axles with CV joints and Bata Motor Sports stub ends

7" rims and tires min

Spme fab work

[datzenmike]

A bit excessive, you might scare him off.

 

6 point roll cage body bonded,

Not super important.  Ruins car looks and makes interior space useless. (you might even feel bullet proof with this installed)

 

Willwood big brake kit

prohibitively expensive, get some zx struts with brakes

 

Spherical ball joints all round,

 

Adjustable control arms

only needed if camber a problem when lowered

 

Coil overs. 

expensive for something you adjust only once and then forget. Much cheaper alternatives

 

Cam Toe adjustable rear X-member

Won't hurt if lowering

 

Bump steer spacers tuned to ride hight

good

 

Flipped and razed steering pick up points on the front X-member

Don't understand. Nothing steering related is on the front cross member.

 

Steering box stabilizer bracket

won't hurt to have and it's cheap.

 

Internal surge tank EFI high pressure pump

Fuel lines

Rad inter cooler and hoses

Blow off valve and waste gate

 

Top mount exhaust manifold ceramic coating

It will work without the coating, but will reduce heat loss

 

Custom down pipe ceramic coating

Will work without coating, but will reduce heat loss

 

3" exhaust

 

Tranny mount.

Wiring specialties s13 universal wiring harness. 

s13 blacktop SR20DET 

05 to 07, WRX sti R180 LSD dif

Stub axles with CV joints and Bata Motor Sports stub ends

7" rims and tires min

Spme fab work

 

 

What no 1" front sway bar??

[DrRocks0]

 

A bit excessive, you might scare him off.

 

6 point roll cage body bonded,

Not super important.  Ruins car looks and makes interior space useless. (you might even feel bullet proof with this installed)

 

Willwood big brake kit

prohibitively expensive, get some zx struts with brakes

 

Spherical ball joints all round,

 

Adjustable control arms

only needed if camber a problem when lowered

 

Coil overs. 

expensive for something you adjust only once and then forget. Much cheaper alternatives

 

Cam Toe adjustable rear X-member

Won't hurt if lowering

 

Bump steer spacers tuned to ride hight

good

 

Flipped and razed steering pick up points on the front X-member

Don't understand. Nothing steering related is on the front cross member.

 

Steering box stabilizer bracket

won't hurt to have and it's cheap.

 

Internal surge tank EFI high pressure pump

Fuel lines

Rad inter cooler and hoses

Blow off valve and waste gate

 

Top mount exhaust manifold ceramic coating

It will work without the coating, but will reduce heat loss

 

Custom down pipe ceramic coating

Will work without coating, but will reduce heat loss

 

3" exhaust

 

Tranny mount.

Wiring specialties s13 universal wiring harness. 

s13 blacktop SR20DET 

05 to 07, WRX sti R180 LSD dif

Stub axles with CV joints and Bata Motor Sports stub ends

7" rims and tires min

Spme fab work

 

 

What no 1" front sway bar??

 

 Need rear sway bar, the front is so heavy it under steers like crazy. Ask me how I know :D

 

There are alternatives that you can do to some of that list like converting to rack and pinion to keep bottom mount turbo.

 

Also only the 06-07 sti r180 rear ends have the 3.54 torsional LSD. 05 has a 3.90 viscous and 08-12 has 3.9 and mixed torsion and viscous depending on the year. 

 

Long story short this is a long process.  Do you know how to work on cars to save yourself big $$$ NB6179505?

[datzenmike]

Yes!

 

There's budget and there's no expense spared builds. Then there's performance vs. handling which I think should include braking performance. On top of these is the need to have a progressive build up starting with a good base and adding to it without getting ahead of ourselves like stuffing a 300 horse KA24DET into a stock 510 and thinking about some brakes next month. 

 

I would lean towards handling over performance.... but not exclusively handling. Performance is addictive and should be well fed but you also want to be around too. A well sorted car that won't surprise you when you are in trouble can go a long way to avoiding that trouble. The 510's brakes were pretty good 45 years ago but by today's standards are laughable. Brakes, shocks and tires have evolved tremendously in that time. 

[paradime]

 

Flipped and razed steering pick up points on the front X-member

Don't understand. Nothing steering related is on the front cross member.

 

 

 

Well actually the pickup points for the "suspension" are on the front x member and razing them helps a great deal when lowering the car. That's why the 68 front X member is sot after, because these pickup points are higher than the later years. 

 

Here's what Troy Ermish does with his racing chassis. One of many little magic mojo tricks he does with the suspension. 

 

 

 

Here's what the stock 68 looks like

 

[datzenmike]

Now makes sense. That would almost eliminate the need for bump steer spacers. You could almost move them in or out for camber too, if you new in advance how much.

[DrRocks0]

I have a 68. I didn't know the cross members are different. Should I not be running bump steer spacers then even thought I'm lowered?  I a have a little bump steer but only when turning and hitting bumps. 

[nb6179505]

Thanks for all the help guys, yeah I do know how to work on cars, can weld a bit (flux core) and have all the necessary tools. Suspension is lowered on 280zx cut struts with bump steer spacers, front discs in the front

 

Its just hard coming for a DD thats turbo'd and quick to a carbed l16 haha, the only reason for the build and that it would be nice to have a good pull in the 510 like i did when my first 2door had the ka24e swap

[DrRocks0]

Yep, HP can be addictive, you just have to take into account you are in a chassis from the 70's and are doubling the horsepower. Whats your budget for this project? 

[paradime]

I have a 68. I didn't know the cross members are different. Should I not be running bump steer spacers then even thought I'm lowered?  I a have a little bump steer but only when turning and hitting bumps. 

 

Depends on how low you go. The benefit of razed pickup points isn't that you can avoid bump steer spacers all together, but that they will be more effective. The spacer still needs to be sized specifically for how low the car will sit.

[nb6179505]

budget is about 2500 to 3000

[DrRocks0]

Well the motor, harness, ECU will be about 2k ok that. Then you are going to need an intercooler setup because the SR20det is a crap sidemount intercooler that usually doesn't come with the swap because its trash anyways. You will need a radiator and hoses, fuel pump, cross member and exhaust work as well as mating the SR20 harness to the 510. That is to just get the motor in the car and running. There will be lots of other little crap pieces you will need to. Figure 3k to get it in and running but then you have a lot of HP and nothing else. 

 

That's the situation I am in, so just drive it safely and start saving for break and safety upgrades quickly. 

[paradime]

budget is about 2500 to 3000

Do yourself a favor and start reading some build threads before doing anything. Swapping an SR with a $3K budget will buy you a pile of disappointment.