iwayman Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 1972 Datsun 510 four door 280zx struts RCAs My turning radius is basically half of what it should be. My full lock: Vs. son of a datsun guys full lock: Both have zx struts and RCAs and both are '72s, what could have changed in my steering geometry to get such horrible turning radius? Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 1. Steering stops on the steering knuckles adjusted too far out. 2. Tie rods horribly misadjusted. 3. Steering gearbox took a shit and won't rotate that far over. Quote Link to comment
iwayman Posted November 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 1. Steering stops on the steering knuckles adjusted too far out. 2. Tie rods horribly misadjusted. 3. Steering gearbox took a shit and won't rotate that far over. I'll check these out. Is there any good way to go about it? Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Is there any good way to go about it? Carefully. B) 2 Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Yep... All the above including the careful part. My money is on a binding steering box. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted November 9, 2014 Report Share Posted November 9, 2014 Long shot... Needs new pads. When worn down the caliper will hit the steering tie rod. As long as the pads are good no problem. The cure is to switch the struts and calipers side to side. This places the caliper to the front. Does it turn ok the other direction? Doubt both are rubbing. Did you adjust the steering box play? Removing slop in the worn straight ahead position will bind when turned to the unworn sides. Quote Link to comment
Nuclear Water Boy Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Long shot... Needs new pads. When worn down the caliper will hit the steering tie rod. As long as the pads are good no problem. The cure is to switch the struts and calipers side to side. This places the caliper to the front. Does it turn ok the other direction? Doubt both are rubbing. Did you adjust the steering box play? Removing slop in the worn straight ahead position will bind when turned to the unworn sides. Correcto but if he has bump steer spacers (which he should with ZX struts) it isn't an issue. Is the steering stock or was it changed out for rack~n~pinion? because some racks will do this. Another thing to check for is the steering knuckles have those been changed? Some guys change them out for shorter ones to quicken the steering but it lessens the turn radius also. Quote Link to comment
paradime Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 It might help to locate the issue if you raze the car on a floor jack and let the suspension sag. Turn the wheel, and if it still locks up look for what is making contact. If it doesn't lock up lower the car until it does. At very least you can eliminate a bunch of stuff this way. 1 Quote Link to comment
q-tip Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 If you have a limited slip differential just use you right foot. But seriously you have RCA's (bump steer spacers) so the calipers are unlikely to be the problem. I would start looking for poorly adjusted linkages or at the box its self. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 1972 Datsun 510 four door 280zx struts RCAs My turning radius is basically half of what it should be. Well it worked at one time. What was the last thing you did to it before the turning got bad??? Quote Link to comment
iwayman Posted November 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 To answer some questions. It's been this way as long as I've had it. Turning radius is shitty turning both ways. It is the stock steering box setup which I have adjusted the play out of but I don't recall it being any better before I had adjusted it. I haven't gotten a chance to hang it and check the radius but I don't believe it binds. The tie rods do not look out of place however I also don't have an eye for that. My '71 510 has 280zx struts without RCAs and there are no issues with the steering. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 The steering box wears mostly in the straight ahead position where all the driving takes place. The far left and right not nearly as much. If there is excessive wear an owner may adjust the box and reduce the gear lash to 'tighten it up, however the gears will bind severely on the left and right sides where there is less or no wear. Raise the front end and loosen the lock nut on the top of the steering box. Loosen the screw inside it.... this should raise the sector shaft and increase the gear lash clearance. Try turning L&R is it better? If this increases the turning radius, it will probably also increase the steering wheel slop or play. (the side to side turning of the steering wheel where the front wheels do not move) If excessive the box is worn out and post internal parts are NLA. A later A-10 or '79-'82 HL510 steering box will work and the B-210 has bearings and gears that will fit your box, but naturally they will also have wear on them. Driving this without the ability to steer out of an accident is extremely risky not only for your car but you and others. Quote Link to comment
paradime Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 You've gotten a lot of advice, but have you tried any of it? If so what happened? 1 Quote Link to comment
iwayman Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 The steering box wears mostly in the straight ahead position where all the driving takes place. The far left and right not nearly as much. If there is excessive wear an owner may adjust the box and reduce the gear lash to 'tighten it up, however the gears will bind severely on the left and right sides where there is less or no wear. Raise the front end and loosen the lock nut on the top of the steering box. Loosen the screw inside it.... this should raise the sector shaft and increase the gear lash clearance. Try turning L&R is it better? If this increases the turning radius, it will probably also increase the steering wheel slop or play. (the side to side turning of the steering wheel where the front wheels do not move) If excessive the box is worn out and post internal parts are NLA. A later A-10 or '79-'82 HL510 steering box will work and the B-210 has bearings and gears that will fit your box, but naturally they will also have wear on them. Driving this without the ability to steer out of an accident is extremely risky not only for your car but you and others. You've gotten a lot of advice, but have you tried any of it? If so what happened? Last week I was able to jack up the front end to play around with the steering. I get 1 and 1/8 revolutions from straight to full lock either way without any binding while hanging suspension. Once I backed out the steering box adjustment I was able to get 1 and 1/4 revolution to the left while the right remained the same. The tie rods and other steering components all look adjusted correctly with no extremes anywhere. All together, I have not solved anything yet. Another 510 gets 1 and 3/4 revolutions. Quote Link to comment
paradime Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 So I take it the binding is happening in the steering box and not the linkage then? Have you looked at the steering while someone else turns the wheel, listened for any binding, etc? Quote Link to comment
iwayman Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 So I take it the binding is happening in the steering box and not the linkage then? Have you looked at the steering while someone else turns the wheel, listened for any binding, etc? Starting to sound like it's the steering gear box. No noise coming from the steering when it was hanging and I couldn't see any thing that looked like it could be binding. Are there different length steering knuckles floating around that bolt to both the 510 ball joints and 280zx/510 struts? Would it make sense that a PO could have installed longer steering knuckles by accident and thus decreased the ratio of degrees the wheels turn to the revolutions of the steering wheel? Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Are there different length steering knuckles floating around that bolt to both the 510 ball joints and 280zx/510 struts? Would it make sense that a PO could have installed longer steering knuckles by accident and thus decreased the ratio of degrees the wheels turn to the revolutions of the steering wheel? 280ZX knuckles work and are shorter (decreasing number of turns lock-to-lock). But they would not decrease overall turning radius or maximum steering angle. Quote Link to comment
MicroMachinery Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 When I put ZX struts on mine, I swapped sides, because the calipers would hit. Are you switching the left side ZX strut to the right side of your car(and visa versa)? If not, the calipers could be causing a clearance issue. Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 the calipers could be causing a clearance issue. That shouldn't limit steering angle, just brake caliper effectiveness. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 Regardless of knuckles the steering wheel would still turn the same amount of times. When I put ZX struts on mine, I swapped sides, because the calipers would hit. Are you switching the left side ZX strut to the right side of your car(and visa versa)? If not, the calipers could be causing a clearance issue. Touched on this earlier.... Long shot... Needs new pads. When worn down the caliper will hit the steering tie rod. As long as the pads are good no problem. The cure is to switch the struts and calipers side to side. This places the caliper to the front. Does it turn ok the other direction? Doubt both are rubbing. Did you adjust the steering box play? Removing slop in the worn straight ahead position will bind when turned to the unworn sides. That shouldn't limit steering angle, just brake caliper effectiveness. If the steering tie rods hit the calipers, I say that would limit the steering. Here's something else.... when the steering box play was adjusted there was a small increase in steering wheel turns. Last week I was able to jack up the front end to play around with the steering. I get 1 and 1/8 revolutions from straight to full lock either way without any binding while hanging suspension. Once I backed out the steering box adjustment I was able to get 1 and 1/4 revolution to the left while the right remained the same. The tie rods and other steering components all look adjusted correctly with no extremes anywhere. The sector shaft moves up or down when adjusting the play. This is also on the left side... the one that got the difference increase. Turn the steering L&R and see if the tie rods rub the calipers. Quote Link to comment
MicroMachinery Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 280ZX knuckles work and are shorter (decreasing number of turns lock-to-lock). But they would not decrease overall turning radius or maximum steering angle. They hit the strut rod, if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment
iwayman Posted December 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 Regardless of knuckles the steering wheel would still turn the same amount of times. Which should increase the turning angle at the wheels? If the steering tie rods hit the calipers, I say that would limit the steering. Here's something else.... when the steering box play was adjusted there was a small increase in steering wheel turns. The sector shaft moves up or down when adjusting the play. This is also on the left side... the one that got the difference increase. Turn the steering L&R and see if the tie rods rub the calipers. Probably won't be able to get it back in the air for another couple weeks to check it. My understanding was that bump steer spacers solve the issue of caliper clearance for the 280zx strut? However, I also have another 510 back in Oregon that has 280zx struts without bump steer spacers that does not have any issues. Quote Link to comment
datsunfreak Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 Regardless of knuckles the steering wheel would still turn the same amount of times. Just spitballing... If it has steering stops on the LCAs/knuckles, when you effectively made the ratio quicker by changing the pitch/length/ackerman angle on the knuckles, you would get less turns of the wheel for the same movement down at the road wheel. A lot of this may be moot, since the OP doesn't really seem to be responding or effectively answering questions people have asked of him... :rofl: Quote Link to comment
paradime Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 You know, I was just thinking the same thing. DaFreak. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 Just spitballing... If it has steering stops on the LCAs/knuckles, when you effectively made the ratio quicker by changing the pitch/length/ackerman angle on the knuckles, you would get less turns of the wheel for the same movement down at the road wheel. Yes I see now. Shortening the spindle center line to the tie rod distance would make the tire move further with less input steering (course you don't get something for nothing and the effort would increase also) But the tire would still turn the same amount. I think he said earlier that the wheels don't travel farther enough... 1972 Datsun 510 four door 280zx struts RCAs My turning radius is basically half of what it should be. My full lock: Vs. son of a datsun guys full lock: Both have zx struts and RCAs and both are '72s, what could have changed in my steering geometry to get such horrible turning radius? Quote Link to comment
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