Frontier KA24DE to D21 4x4 swap. No more KAZ24.

[HRH]

I was going to just hijack my old build thread, but since most of the pictures don't work anyway, figured I should start a new thread.  Half the interest is to keep me on track with finishing this thread.

 

In January of this year I picked up a 116,000 mile 2002 Frontier motor from Spaldings.  It's was out of a rolled 2wd.  Exhaust manifold was cracked in a few places, other than that, looked pretty decent.  Pulled the valve cover and it was pretty spotless inside.  So, today I'm attempting to start tearing into the new motor and re-seal everything.  I may just leave the head gasket alone considering I don't think they had issues with those on the DEs, it will probably be fine.  I'll probably text Keith to ask his opinion.

 

Bought a semi-cheap stainless steel header from a drifter company in Nevada.  Hopefully it will work as it's meant for the 240.  Pretty sure it will fit without too much modification on the 4x4.  We shall see.   It hasn't arrived yet.

 

One thing I will need is another KA 4x4 oil pan, as I cut mine up to make the pan for the KAZ24.  Alas, the front is not angled anymore.  Spalding's should have one of those in stock I would think.  I'll check on that tomorrow.

 

Anyway, that's the story, hoping this won't be too hard a swap.  I've seen the motor in that red 4x4 521 with a 720 frame that's been around Spokane, so I know there's one that works.  My biggest curiosity is integrating the wiring to the rest of the hardbody.  May need to wire a toggle for the fuel pump since it won't have the same connections as the Frontier is an ECU attached to the engine wiring harness.  It connects to the main harness via a three wire connector.  Have a feeling I'll be asking Jeff on this one too.   :)

 

Oh, and the reason for ditching the KAZ24?  She used a bit more oil than I liked right from the start.  Not sure if valve guides or rings or what.  Last winter she started eating a lot more oil than usual.  Like half a quart every week or two.  Still runs great so I'll tear her down after I complete this conversion and figure out what the deal is.

 

 

[HRH]

Okay, here we go!  Almost ready to start re-sealing.  Need to remove the timing chains and take the white hedgehog to the block face and timing cover, get all the old bits of sealant off.  Going to go to NAPA and grab a few hoses for the thermostat housing, think I may just grab a thermostat while I'm at it too.  Probably a good idea.  And then I'll be back here for getting the rest of the motor back together.

 

 

 

Interestingly, the drive gear hole is exactly 180 out from the pump body hole.  And I checked for TDC, it is correct.  Sooooo, I'm just going to align it 180 out and reinstall.  Distributor hadn't been out, so yeah.  Not sure.  EDIT:  Had my head firmly rooted in my behind, I set it to exhaust side TDC.  Whoops!  That explains why it was 180 out!  Figured it out when I was undoing the cam bolts and the marks weren't in the right place, lol.

 

 

[Eric Garside]

Looking good, Matt. looking forward to watching your progress. Maybe one of these days I can swing by with a six pack since we are some of the only ratsuners on this side of the state.

[HRH]

Definitely!  Sadly September sucks though, I have a feeling I'm going to be finishing this up in October due to work crapola.  Got everything cleaned on the timing cover tonight, taking a break now, going to put it back together in the morning.

[Eric Garside]

Yeah, I am heading back out on the road this week for work and will be gone most of the month. Doesnt mean we cant get together and talk Datsun sometime

[HRH]

Sorry for the lack of pictures, I've been super busy.  Short of it is, I've gotten the red truck to a point where I can try and start it.  And it doesn't work.  Been scratching my head on the wiring.

 

As I can see, there is one 3 wire connector that plugs the ECU/engine harness into the main harness, so obviously that needs power or ground or something, right?  Well, so far no go.  Two wires probe to ground, one I would assume would be hot.  However, talking to flatcat, he thinks one is the 5v reference wire.  I have a blue, a black with white stripe iirc, and a grey wire.  It could be dirty white, but I think it's grey.  I'm looking over the '95 S14 wiring harness from the how to wire thread, need to ponder that some more.

 

Anyone else used a 2002 Frontier motor and put it in anything?  I saw it in a few other Datsuns but it looks like they may have installed the entire harness.  Whereas I just have the ECU/engine harness.  My thinking is it should work that way, but perhaps there are some more feeder 12v signals that I'm missing.  Heading to Spalding to pick up the remaining power steering bracket I'm missing and then examine the rest of the wiring harness from the donor rig.

 

Any help would be appreciated!

 

EDIT:  Interesting, I'm on the Datsun 1200 site and they mention there are 8 wires needed to hook up the KADE to another Datsun.  And they suggest getting the entire engine room harness, which would explain the relay box poking out from the side of the Datsun I saw the Frontier motor in.  Apparently I will need the entire harness.  Damn.

[Icehouse]

I've always swapped to the car harness because it's so much cleaner from the start.  The truck harness is integrated into the chassis harness.  I'm sure if you really wanted to use it you could.  Just get the ECU pinout and make sure the powers and grounds are all accounted for.  If you have trouble send me the FSM and we can walk through it.  

[HRH]

Thanks Jeff, I looked at the FSM on Nico for a 2002 Frontier, damn if I can find the wiring diagrams.  Do you know which section they hide them in?  I've checked EC and EL, but not finding the regular string diagrams like in my Haynes manual.  It has the diagrams but kind of strung out, not sure I'm finding all the spouts.

[HRH]

Well, I went down to Spaldings and got the two pigtails that connect to the ECU harness shortly after the block plugs into the ECU.  I'm betting this is where I need to put power to, as opposed to that three wire plug that plugged into the main harness.  Have I mentioned I F$%#$^#^ING HATE WIRING!!!!!??? :(  I am surrounded by paper and manuals at the moment and I'm still not much closer to figuring this out.  At this rate, it's going to have a 200sx EFI on it by the end of the day.

[HRH]

Hmm, now I'm thinking about it.  Technically, I can run the entire thing on the original D21 system I think.  Not sure if the IAC valve will work the original signals, but don't see why it wouldn't really.  Pretty much the same throttle body.  The motor doesn't know how many cams it has, it's not that smart.  The distributor being the CAS is a slight problem, but the newer version is actually the same thing according to the schematics, other than having an internal coil in it, eliminating the need for a coil wire.  Retrofitting the distributor shouldn't be that hard.  There are definitely some sensor differences, but that can be solved by changing the pigtail.  I'm beginning to think it may be easier to adapt the original system than wire in the Frontier system without the dash and engine sub-harness.  Not sure yet.  Going to go scratch my head a little more.

[HRH]

Yep, adapting the original system.  Much easier.  More annoying that now I have to cover a hole in my firewall I enlarged for the new ECU and harness.  :(  Found a nice trunk plug at pull and save that should work well and hide that annoyance.

 

Had to re-wire the injector connectors due to the style of injector used in the later model intake.  Ended up swapping the throttle body also, but not to the 92 one I had.  Instead, I used a '95 model as it has the same sensor bosses but a newer probably better IAC that still plugs into the old harness with all the right connections.  At the moment, I'm trying to figure out how to wire the 6 pin Frontier dizzy as it has the internal coil.  I know I can use that, but have to figure out which wires are which, and as usual, the fsm is not helping in this.  They show everything except the actual wiring diagram where I can trace wires by color.  So far I've found the info in the Haynes, now just have to find the same info for the D21 in the Haynes then compare the two.

 

If I can't get that, I may just swap housings on the dizzy.  We shall see, but tomorrow.  Now is time for cookies and Tea, and watching Ronin!

[HRH]

Well, it's alive, but barely.  Getting some popping spitting out of the exhaust, still won't catch.  Going to change out the TPS because I just remembered I think the 95 TPS is a potentiometer instead of a 3 position switch like the 92 is.  Also have a distributor I had to re-index, so it could be off still too.  Anyway, it's pissing down here, going to eat some lunch and think about it.  Either way, at least I know it's almost doing what it's supposed to be doing.

[HRH]

Oh joy, how we learn!  So I began to think about the injectors, finding they go down to 96-97 hardbody, which is obdII.  They're green injectors, unlike the red ones that were in it.  I started looking online and found reds to be 32 lb injectors, where green are 42 lb.  Given that my fuel pressure regulator is no more than 38 pounds, I'm betting the pressure isn't enough to pop the injector, not only that, but the impedance is different.  So, now I get to RE-re-wire my harness back to what it was supposed to be, and use the 95 D21 fuel injectors that thankfully fit in the same rail as the Frontier and are red, not green.  After this, it should start.  Really wish I had looked at that to begin with.  Just got back from the store with injector o-ring kits, hope these injectors aren't too crapped up from lack of use.  Got a can of Sea Foam too.

[HRH]

Just got back from the wrecking yard securing NEW, not really '94 D21 injector connectors since I cut mine short already, putting them back on would leave me with creating two solder joints instead of one to lengthen the wire appropriately.  The injector pigtails listed at my work, NAPA, are WRONG!!  Fucking bullshit!  I'm a little annoyed on that front.  The recess was molded on the wrong side on the new plugs.  And they're also really spendy.  $1 of shmoozing with my buddy at Pull and Save got me four new connectors and a decent amount of wire.  Picked up some white vinegar on the way home, and found this tidbit.

 

http://www.zcsd.org/tech-articles/corroded-connectors.php

[HRH]

After dinner, finally ready to go back outside in the cold and wet and finish wiring up my harness.  But here's something fun for you to watch!

 

[HRH]

Fuck a double duck.  Got the new/old injector harness connectors on, went to fire.  Same thing, although less sput sput.  I imagine that should be expected since the other injectors were bigger, perhaps they were firing, but not in the right order.  I'm rather suspecting timing, but I've run the distributor all around with no difference.  I'm relatively certain I have the cams in correctly, though it has crossed my mind they could be 180 out.  However, I don't have backfiring out the intake, so I doubt that's the case.

 

It did occur to me I have the distributor drive gear a tooth off.  Pretty sure I have it at the 11:45 position, but I'll re-check tomorrow.  Interestingly enough, when I pulled off the oil pump, the distributor drive gear was 180 off from it's mark, which would have meant I had it at BDC, not TDC.  However, I'm pretty sure I turned the cams around and re-checked everything before putting her together.  I don't know.  Perhaps it will come to me in the night.  All I know is I'm going to go watch a movie and escape to a world where all the D21s run. :(

[HRH]

First things this morning:

 

I arced the wire to the fuel injector initially when changing plugs.  Perhaps I blew a fuse?  Step 1, check fusebox.

 

Step 2, re-check TDC and cam position to make sure I didn't mis-time.

 

Step 3, change MAF, I used the one on the '95 throttle body which I haven't verified as good.  Not that they really ever go bad on that style, but still.

 

We'll go with that, see if we get anywhere.

[HRH]

IT RUNS!!  You wouldn't think it would be that hard.  And it's not.  So I checked all the fuses this morning, they were all good.  Pulled a plug to check for TDC, it smelled of fuel but was clean.  Left the coil wire off and cranked it.  Had spark.  Pulled off the valve cover to check the timing chains to see if I screwed the pooch on that.  Nope, they were fine.  After checking everything, the only thing left that I was unsure of was the MAF sensor on the '95 throttlebody.  I had been one there and I assumed it would be good.  Never assume.  Thought, what the heck and swapped it out with my original one.  (Same part number on it for reference)  It burped a little.  So I held it at half throttle and cranked some more, and she caught to life.  Advanced the distributor a bit and wouldn't you know it, good to go with a wonderful open head racket!

 

My vacation just got a lot better.  :D  Now to go put the rest of the 4 wheel drive system in and connect the exhaust.

[Farmer Joe]

nice!! 

 

so whats up with the KAZ? putting it in the 510?

[HRH]

Nope, KAZ had issues.  Eating oil big time.  Not sure why.  Eventually I'll get around to tearing down that motor and figuring out what went wrong.  Only 40k miles too.  Rather annoying.  Of course, I think it's the last time I'll build a KA sohc.  I hate hydraulic valves.  Shim and bucket are vastly superior.  And they don't make noise.

[Farmer Joe]

dang... 

 

im kinda in the same boat with my single cam.. makes a shit ton of noise from the topend.

 

i have a possible lead on a frontier DE. im hoping it works out.. im tired of all that lifter noise. 

[HRH]

If you end up redoing the sohc, try to find a good 240sx one.  Japan blocks seem to have better luck.  I have a nice cam in my KAZ24 too, if you want it.  Of course, I might just figure out what the deal is and end up using it again.  Hard to say yet.  If anything, I'll shell out the $350 for solid lifter conversion though.

[Farmer Joe]

looked into the solid lifter conversion.. only place i could find em for sale was from O&J performance.. they want $399 for a set.

 

even thought about making my own out of my old set of rockers. too much work involved tho.. 

 

id rather just go DE and forget about it. 

[HRH]

Yep, that's kind of the conclusion I came to as well.  Annoys me I have a decent cam for one though.  They're not all bad though.  The best running KA sohcs I had were 96-97, I think they may have changed some oil passages in the head or something for the obdII versions.  All I know is I never had bad lifter noise out of those unless run really hard at autocross in the summer.  For some reason I've had a string of bad luck with early KAs in the red truck.  However, you know what I didn't hear about the open header just now?  Lifter tick. :)  That makes me a happy panda.

 

Working on uploading a video and eventually I'll put up some more pictures since threads without pictures are useless.

[HRH]