logan1600 Posted August 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Alright I'll give it a go. And how about a spun Bering what should I look for with that? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Unlikely. You would still have oil flow. The oil would have flakes of bearing material in it. Besides if you find the pick up bent or cracked, that's the problem, look no further. Quote Link to comment
logan1600 Posted August 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Alright pulled off the oil pan no damage to the pickup I did notice some metal in the oil but that might be from running it with no oil pressure? I didn't run it long I ran it for maybe 5 minutes when I first got it all done and noticed no oil getting to the top end and shut it down and I've ran it probably 3 times since and have been pouring oil on the cam and down timing chain. So what now I'm stumped maybe the oil gallery's are plugged? Quote Link to comment
logan1600 Posted August 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 No chunks of metal in oil it just shimmered like it had some tiny flakes in it. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 if you remove the oil filter and turn it over with starter and oil shoots out then I think the pump is good. this is either 2 things. Your a Idiot (not telling us soemthing or we are.( were not catching this proplem) never really seen this proplem before.Most time its obvious. I never seen a pump fail Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Alright pulled off the oil pan no damage to the pickup I did notice some metal in the oil but that might be from running it with no oil pressure? I didn't run it long I ran it for maybe 5 minutes when I first got it all done and noticed no oil getting to the top end and shut it down and I've ran it probably 3 times since and have been pouring oil on the cam and down timing chain. So what now I'm stumped maybe the oil gallery's are plugged? Be sure it's not bent. It has to reach down into the oil pan bottom. Measure down into oil pan. Pickup should be just shorter than this. never really seen this proplem before.Most time its obvious. I never seen a pump fail Well he also tried a KA pump. Can't be two failed pumps. Spindle is in or it wouldn't have started. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 chunk of RTV plugged up soemthing? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 1/ Oil sucked up pick up tube into block. 2/ Along passage in block to front and into the timing cover. 3/ Down timing cover passage and into the suction side of the pump. 4/ Pressure side of pump to the relief valve which recirculates back to inlet to stabilize pressure at about 50 ish PSI. 5/ All other pressure side oil goes back up into second timing cover passage. 6/ From there to the oil passage toward rear of block and the oil filter. If filter plugged oil will force it's way past relief ball and lubricate with reasonably clean 'unfiltered' oil. 7/ from filter to the rest of the crank shaft bearings and up through the block to the sender and the head. This was working but disassembled and now not working. Two oil pumps gave same results so not the pump. Spindle? Engine runs so.... ? Oil pick up is reported not cracked but is it bent up above oil level??? If two pumps filled with oil or more than twice, why didn't this oil spurt out when filter removed? Quote Link to comment
logan1600 Posted August 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I've defiantly been trying to give as much info as I possibly can. I ran out of time today to work so I'll have do more next weekend. But I will measure the oil pickup. I did rember one problem o was having when putting on the time cover on was the gaskets didn't seem to fit well when I got them on I was very careful when putting them on making sure the oil holes didn't get covered even a little bit. But would the oil holes on the timing cover being covered be causing this? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Yes, specially the suction side. Did you use sealer or install dry? Large hole lower left with very small hole above it is the suction side drawing oil from the pick up tube. The slightly smaller hole 2" directly above it is the pressure side feeding oil to the filter. Is it possible that the bottom hole gasket has shifted and letting in air? This would lower the suction at cranking speeds. Look in this area on the outside. Can you see the even edge of the gasket??? Quote Link to comment
Z-train Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 What did you put on the OP sending unit threads to seal it? Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Just to clarify; this is an engine that ran well before you did the head gasket? There are a million things it could be, but if it ran with good oil pressure before you did the head gasket, it's not likely that it's the oil pump, unless you had that off too. Start retracing your steps. CSI style. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I'm going to try putting the oil pump off my ka on and do what you suggested. Filled the pump to the brim. And light is still on. Just so you know. Two oil pumps still no work. Engine runs so the spindle is in Oil pan removed and pick up is undamaged but was bumped during rebuild. He's going to check that it reaches bottom of pan in the morning. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 cracked front cover? never step on you POUND a front cover with a hammer its just a alum casting 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 I wonder if he left a rag in the oil pan?! The pickup tube could have craked if it got hit hard enough. But even if it's sucking air, it should have oil psi, unless it's really bad. If it were here, I would probably start by removing the oil pan and front cover and inspect all the parts, install new gaskets or make sure the old ones are fine, check to make sure the galley plugs are in, as well as the plugs in the crank, also bearings for cause and for resultant damage. It's possible that a new cam was installed without him telling us, and that the plug in the back of the cam is missing. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 But oil would have to pass the oil filter and the oil sender to get to bearings, crank or the cam. It isn't. It's a head scratcher. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Well, there's usually more to the story than we ever find out. 1 Quote Link to comment
Z-train Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 How about a really good gauge(270 degree) direct to the port and crank it-establish a baseline. Quote Link to comment
logan1600 Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I wonder if he left a rag in the oil pan?! The pickup tube could have craked if it got hit hard enough. But even if it's sucking air, it should have oil psi, unless it's really bad. If it were here, I would probably start by removing the oil pan and front cover and inspect all the parts, install new gaskets or make sure the old ones are fine, check to make sure the galley plugs are in, as well as the plugs in the crank, also bearings for cause and for resultant damage. It's possible that a new cam was installed without him telling us, and that the plug in the back of the cam is missing. Nope no new cam I didn't even remove cam/valve train was just a basic head gasket/ engine paint and cleanup/ new clutch and flywheel but I did use a die grinder to clean mating surfaces on head and block with a 3m conditioning pads I wonder if some metal may have got in the oil hole in head could that cause my problem? Quote Link to comment
logan1600 Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 How about a really good gauge(270 degree) direct to the port and crank it-establish a baseline. What do you mean?? Quote Link to comment
logan1600 Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Also all new gaskets for just about everything Quote Link to comment
logan1600 Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Another thing is I had it set at #2 on the can sprocket before and I moved it to #1 not sure if that's relevent. Haha just giving as much info as I can Quote Link to comment
Z-train Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 What do you mean??A good gauge that has a 270 degree "sweep" so you can see even a few pounds of pressure.Should have left it at #2.You're timing will be a "bit off". Quote Link to comment
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