Cuz Merica

[paradime]

Care to imagine a Hillary economic society?

 

I did, and that's why I didn't vote for president in 2016.

[VFR800]

[john510]

"Just too easy to get guns." This is the most hypocritical bullshit possible, you just want to push an anti-gun initiative on the back of a tragedy.

 

The problem is a mental health problem. No amount of gun control will ever stop people from killing other people.

 

All kinds of people were saying this guy has problems and nothing happened. What gun law would have changed that exactly?

 

Focusing on the gun will not solve the real problem here of mentally unwell people wanting to kill other people. In countries where guns are hard to legally obtain bad people get them illegally or use other methods.

 

What if he had used a truck? Or diesel and fertilizer to make a bomb? Or any of a number of other ways to kill people?

 

Want to ban "assault trucks"? High capacity fuel tanks?

 

Trying to ban or control a tool is not the right way to control a mental health problem, especially as guns are one of the few tools that in the majority of normal health adults can actually stop tragedies like this!

 

But it doesn't matter what argument or facts or statistics I put out, your "emotions" tell you GUNS are the problem.

 

Well your feelings do not trump my natural rights, those to protect myself and mine through arms.

 

You really want to stop this from happening in the future? Do NOT focus your energies on gun control, focus on the ACTUAL problem, the mentally ill or just downright "evil" people who do the actual killing.

 

I will put it as bluntly as possible. Trying to increase gun control does not prevent crazy people from killing other people. Stopping mentally ill people (intervention, whatever) is what stops mentally ill people from killing other people.

Apparently is must be pretty easy to get an AR-15.Ask the mentally fucked up kid that got kicked out of school and had a long history of threats (that were reported to authorities) how hard it was for him to get that gun.It must be pretty easy.I'm not sure you can argue that.Obviously there's mental health involved,thanks for pointing that out.

[john510]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/16/13-russian-nationals-indicted-for-interfering-in-us-elections.html

 

Mueller charges 13 Russian nationals and 3 Russian entities

The indictment said the defendants purchased political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. It also accuses them of staging political rallies inside the United States while posing as U.S. grassroots groups.

 

According to the special counsel, the indictment charges the defendants with conspiracy to defraud the United States, three defendants with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud and five defendants with aggravated identity theft.

 

 

We already know Meuller did not have anything, So he indicted some Russians for what the US is doing on a daily basis.

I wonder who the so called "grass roots" groups were supporting.?

[VFR800]

It's way past too late for the USA to have a way to stop or severely stem these mass shootings.

 

US Border Patrol are finding illegals daily sure but at same time finding the fraction of illegal firearms being smuggled in also,the actual true number of firearms in USA would be way above whatever stats officials have collated.

 

Ban guns or let everyone mental,felon or otherwise is not going to stop the mass shootings.

 

That horse bolted when the gate was open. 

[125 CSL]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/mueller-pushes-deep-state-russian-collusion-bs-united-muslims-america-pro-hillary-group/

 

MUELLER PUSHES DEEP STATE RUSSIAN COLLUSION BS: Numerous Sites Listed Were PRO-HILLARY not PRO-TRUMP

 

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/development-huge-attorney-explains-new-judge-bring-justice-gen-flynn/

 

The judge assigned to Flynn’s case now is Emmet G. Sullivan. Judge Sullivan immediately issued what is called a “Brady” order requiring Mueller to provide Flynn all information that is favorable to the defense whether with respect to guilt or punishment.

 

 

 

Still developing, it looks like Mueller is not even going to get Flynn.

[VFR800]

Is it not standard legal practice to supply all information as to what the prosecution has against someone to their legal counsel?

[Dolomite]

I hear you man. and for the most part agree with everything you've said. I lost my drivers license due to vision loss, but I still own two cars. Might sound foolish, but I still own guns and I'm not going to attempt to rationalize that here. I just don't want to give them up. 

 

As for some mechanism for auto flagging to restrict gun ownership I would be all for it if there were some recourse to have it reviewed before a judge. Some times perfectly normal people get depressed for many reasons and seek medications to help them right their shit so to speak. So many variables and gray area between here and there.

I’m honestly sorry to hear that. I understand about the guns too, I’d not want to give them up either.

A review process would be quite necessary, people can be helped. Minds do change. Hell, I probably wouldn’t want my 18 year old self to have even the single shot lever action ithaca .22 I had. Teenagers by default are mentally unstable.

[Dolomite]

It's way past too late for the USA to have a way to stop or severely stem these mass shootings.

 

US Border Patrol are finding illegals daily sure but at same time finding the fraction of illegal firearms being smuggled in also,the actual true number of firearms in USA would be way above whatever stats officials have collated.

 

Ban guns or let everyone mental,felon or otherwise is not going to stop the mass shootings.

 

That horse bolted when the gate was open.

 

I think that’s a little short sided. There’s never been a real attempt to stop these kinds of actions, other than ill advised gun grabs and repeals of freedom. There has been, however, a full on assault on family values and responsible parenting. Look at the numbers, a tiny percentage of these shooters has been generation x or older, just about the timeframe on the destruction of complete families. There used to be a stigma to be divorced, now it’s treated like you get to relive your 20s. People used to whoop their kids asses for being little pricks. Parents used to raise grateful, respectful kids. They spent quality time together. Now, mommy downs zanex with her white zin and ignores the kids because it’s too hard to deal with them because they’ll call the cops over an asswhooping, all the while dad is either not in the home or out getting pissed with the guys because people these days can’t be bothered to be a damn parent. While not always the case, a lot of these kids are falling through the cracks, being medicated for little to no reason, and are properly not given a fuck about. America has been raising a couple generations of self centered psychopaths with titanic senses of self entitlement. Saying America has a gun problem is like saying Death Valley has a population problem, it’s blaming the symptoms not the causes.

[Mattndew76]

Is it not standard legal practice to supply all information as to what the prosecution has against someone to their legal counsel?

 

Full disclosure.

 

They cannot supply evidence without first presenting it to opposing counsel. 

[paradime]

I’m honestly sorry to hear that. I understand about the guns too, I’d not want to give them up either.

A review process would be quite necessary, people can be helped. Minds do change. Hell, I probably wouldn’t want my 18 year old self to have even the single shot lever action ithaca .22 I had. Teenagers by default are mentally unstable.

 

 

Hey Dolomite, no sorrow needed man. It is all part of the ride and I'm damn glad to be on it.  

[john510]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/mueller-pushes-deep-state-russian-collusion-bs-united-muslims-america-pro-hillary-group/

 

MUELLER PUSHES DEEP STATE RUSSIAN COLLUSION BS: Numerous Sites Listed Were PRO-HILLARY not PRO-TRUMP

 

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/development-huge-attorney-explains-new-judge-bring-justice-gen-flynn/

 

The judge assigned to Flynn’s case now is Emmet G. Sullivan. Judge Sullivan immediately issued what is called a “Brady” order requiring Mueller to provide Flynn all information that is favorable to the defense whether with respect to guilt or punishment.

 

 

 

Still developing, it looks like Mueller is not even going to get Flynn.

I heard some Russians were indicted for election tampering.I think Mueller needs to indict the media also.

[paradime]

Full disclosure.

 

They cannot supply evidence without first presenting it to opposing counsel.

 

Brady Rule is different. it pertains to sharing potentially exculpatory evidence.

 

Before 125 CSL gets to excited about Judge Sullivan's legal move he should look to see what it means in the context of an ongoing Federal investigation. Basically a donkey far in a dust storm.

 

https://www.justice.gov/archives/dag/memorandum-department-prosecutors

[john510]

I think that’s a little short sided. There’s never been a real attempt to stop these kinds of actions, other than ill advised gun grabs and repeals of freedom. There has been, however, a full on assault on family values and responsible parenting. Look at the numbers, a tiny percentage of these shooters has been generation x or older, just about the timeframe on the destruction of complete families. There used to be a stigma to be divorced, now it’s treated like you get to relive your 20s. People used to whoop their kids asses for being little pricks. Parents used to raise grateful, respectful kids. They spent quality time together. Now, mommy downs zanex with her white zin and ignores the kids because it’s too hard to deal with them because they’ll call the cops over an asswhooping, all the while dad is either not in the home or out getting pissed with the guys because people these days can’t be bothered to be a damn parent. While not always the case, a lot of these kids are falling through the cracks, being medicated for little to no reason, and are properly not given a fuck about. America has been raising a couple generations of self centered psychopaths with titanic senses of self entitlement. Saying America has a gun problem is like saying Death Valley has a population problem, it’s blaming the symptoms not the causes.

I agree with most of this but "gun grabs" ? who had their guns taken away that didn't deserve it ? 

[Jesse C.]

Apparently is must be pretty easy to get an AR-15.Ask the mentally fucked up kid that got kicked out of school and had a long history of threats (that were reported to authorities) how hard it was for him to get that gun.It must be pretty easy.I'm not sure you can argue that.Obviously there's mental health involved,thanks for pointing that out.

 

He may have been known, but did he have any felonies? Was he placed on any list that would throw up a red flag? Did he flat out lie on his applications?  My red flag is when you start getting attention from law enforcement. Any normal person does not get this. I have never been on any type of law enforcement radar. I work, come home and try to live a decent life. As most folks do. 

 

And then comes the assholes that people start warning other about. God forbid we should infringe on his rights to make sure if he is ok or a menace to society. And now because of that, my rights are in peril once again. 

 

And idiots like Don Lemon need to stop saying it is absolutely about guns! What a fucking jackalope! 

[Jesse C.]

I agree with most of this but "gun grabs" ? who had their guns taken away that didn't deserve it ? 

 

Ok, here...

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/us/nationalspecial/police-begin-seizing-guns-of-civilians.html

[paradime]

I agree with most of this but "gun grabs" ? who had their guns taken away that didn't deserve it ?

Also, there has been efforts made by restricting gun sales to people with mental illness. Unfortunately it's easier said than done, and difficult to enforce when there's a new policy with every administration. 

[paradime]

Ok, here...

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/us/nationalspecial/police-begin-seizing-guns-of-civilians.html

 

In the context of the conversation we're having, how does an isolated event following Bush's botched handling of Catrina 12 years ago constitute a "gun grab" violation of the 2nd amendment? 

[Draker]

 

 

Pretty sure #PrayFor<insert country here> trends for almost all terrorist attacks where a bunch of innocent people die. Anyone remember Paris, Brussels, Manchester, London, Stockholm, Orlando, San Bernadino?

[Draker]

[john510]

In the context of the conversation we're having, how does an isolated event following Bush's botched handling of Catrina 12 years ago constitute a "gun grab" violation of the 2nd amendment? 

Thank you.I wasn't even going to argue it.

[Draker]

Apparently is must be pretty easy to get an AR-15.Ask the mentally fucked up kid that got kicked out of school and had a long history of threats (that were reported to authorities) how hard it was for him to get that gun.It must be pretty easy.I'm not sure you can argue that.Obviously there's mental health involved,thanks for pointing that out.

 

Has it been released if he got the gun legally? 

[datzenmike]

 

 

Again, easy for someone who does not live here to point fingers and tell us how it is. 

 

 

 

Well fuck... someone has to do the pointing 'cause no one here is. I see my good neighbor to the south struggling with problems, hell I can hear the gunshots through the wall. Maybe if someone had pointed some fingers in Florida this wouldn't have happened. No, I don't live there, no, I don't want to live there.

[john510]

Has it been released if he got the gun legally? 

Yes it has,he bought it legally.

[Draker]

Well fuck... someone has to do the pointing 'cause no one here is. I see my good neighbor to the south struggling with problems, hell I can hear the gunshots through the wall. Maybe if someone had pointed some fingers in Florida this wouldn't have happened. No, I don't live there, no, I don't want to live there.

 

Deputies called to suspected shooter’s home 39 times over seven years

 

https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/deputies-called-to-suspected-shooters-home-39-times-over-seven-years/

 

February 16, 2018

FBI Statement on the Shooting in Parkland, Florida

On January 5, 2018, a person close to Nikolas Cruz contacted the FBI’s Public Access Line (PAL) tipline to report concerns about him. The caller provided information about Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting.