The starter problems continue

[xsdg]

So, more with the starting issues.  Here are the previous steps and misdiagnosis, but I'll rehash all the important stuff:

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/62532-engine-locked-up-what-could-it-be/

 

The important stuff from last time:

— Symptom was: no crank, no start

— I replaced the battery, as well as all electrical hardware connecting to the battery, with new equipment

— I didn't replace the battery cables, but did re-dress the cable ends

— Once all this was done, the engine fired right up.

 

The new stuff:

1) A few days after that, I got stranded at work.  Same symptoms.

2) I could hear the starter solenoid click, but the starter motor didn't turn.

3) I had the brights on and they didn't dim at all when I hit the starter.

4) Some friends came and we were able to bump start it, no problem.

5) After we drove somewhere, I hit the starter with the engine running.  Headlights dimmed, and expected grinding noises happened.  I shut it off, and was able to restart with no issue about a half-hour later.

 

So, given #3 and #5, one of my friends suggested that the starter solenoid might not be making it to the full extent of its travel, which would cause low or no electrical contact from the giant battery-positive cable stud to the stud that powers the motor.  This is my working hypothesis.

 

 

The question now is: why isn't the solenoid making it to full travel, and what needs to be done to fix it?

 

Some photos: http://www.doppler-photo.net/dump/h5b642fd

 

So, I disassembled the starter, and I've been cleaning the parts that can obviously be cleaned.  A few questions:

1) There's some grease-looking stuff on the inside of the nose piece.  Is that supposed to be there?  The one-way clutch feels a little bit dry, but seems to be working fine.

 

2) There's a bushing/bearing that is fixed in place on the end of the rotor shaft.  How is that fixed in place?  Right now, it rotates smoothly but does not slide longitudinally along the shaft.  But I am absolutely positive that it was floating longitudinally after I came back from getting the starter tested at Pep Boys.

 

3) Can the solenoid be (easily) opened and inspected?  My Chilton's manual gives the obvious replacement instructions, but doesn't give any removal instructions.  I also haven't been able to find any starter motor section at all in my FSM.

 

4) I noticed that the pinion will extend when rotated even without the solenoid pushing it forward.  It's an obvious design feature, but what is it for?  Presumably it's not just for redundancy?

 

5) What kind of lube should I put in which spots when I reassemble things?

 

6) There's an odd-looking hole in one of the casting marks on the nose casting.  See the 8 o'clock position:  that casting mark is open to the exterior.  Is that expected?

[datzenmike]

The solenoid get's 12 volts from the ignition. Pull the small wire off the solenoid, turn key to START and measure the voltage. Should be battery. My 710 was 6 volts!!! and the starter was hit or miss. Fitted a relay using the 6 volts to trigger it. Never had a problem after.

[xsdg]

Replaced the starter with a reman that I got from a junkyard.  Starts better than ever (although that's how I remember it behaving after I "fixed" it the last time, too.)

 

I've been holding off for as long as possible, but I'm probably going to have to dive into the electricals with some sandpaper and contact cleaner just to get rid of these gremlins for certain.

 

Thanks for the tip about checking the solenoid input voltage, also.  It turns out that the solenoid that I hear clicking when I hit the starter isn't the starter solenoid as I had originally thought — I had failed to hook up the solenoid power line when I installed the reman starter, and I still heard the clicking.  Probably the fuel pump solenoid in that case.  Anyway, that does open the possibility that something is still wrong upstream of the solenoid power line.

[datzenmike]

Checking the voltage is easier than sanding contacts. Make sure the solenoid wire clips firmly to the solenoid terminal.

 

You could just jam a wrench from the battery lug on the starter to the solenoid terminal. This would give it 12 direct volts. If it cranks properly then this is the problem.

[JoeCool]

Heck, I would probaby just replace the positive and negative cables (they're cheap) to be safe, and get a "new" reman. starter from a parts store. I only paid $29.99 for my starter at Autozone. Cardone who remans most auto parts stores starters usually replaces all functioning internals as well as a new solonoid. Has a lifetime warranty as well. But take the junkyard starter with you and have it bench tested. That will let you know for sure, it's a free service at Autozone, Advance, and O'Reilly. You will need a core anyway.

 

 

Edit: also how does the flywheel look? If it is warped or has any chipped or broken teeth that will cause a hard start depending where it stops in relation to lining up with the gear on the starter.

[NissanEgg]

Also check the electrical portion of the ignition switch.  It can fail or have corroded contacts which can cause intermittent issues.  I had a similar issue with the starter and mine was cured with a new switch from Nissan.