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z24 Turbo!?!


ITzDarcy

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That's pretty high alright. Do you think you would be money ahead to buy something in the states and have it shipped to you?

Yea the only reason prices are high here is because of the shipping prices from the U.S.

A good kit for around 600-800 USD from the U.S is like 300-400 Shipping All that I have seen so far anyway.

But that honda B-series kit was $799 or so with free postage so I was like wow~! I was thinking I could modify the piping with flexible piping and do some welds.

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I can't find any cheaper ones than that really And because im so bloody far away from anything free postage helps me out alot, to drive to perth and back cost me about $300- $350 in gas anways lol and working that much atm I cant sacrifice that kinda time.

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Just got my bloody extractors today that I bought in ignorance. So I was thinking has anyone ever done this. If I cut the port flange/s off maybe 2" behind them, And bought the downpipe and turbo flanges and then used the left over metal and made my own manifold. It seems kinda ridiculous but, I i think If I can do it right after alot of planning it will end up costing me the same as buying a manifold off of ebay. Even the z18et manifold I offered for on gumtree yesterday was $125 + plus shipping ($50-100) In the end its gonna cost about the same. I have already read up quite a bit on making your own manifold and found that patience and precision is the key. I have all the required tools except a die grinder which I will be happy to purcahse.

IMG_20140615_175912_613.jpg

 

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So I've come back a fair way here I've already spend about 3k on this if not very close to it. So i'm looking to get away with only spending about another 1k to get my turbo setup. With my list in mind can anyone suggest a setup that would be cheap but would be good for what I need say 8psi daily driver.

I don't know the compatibility but I would just cut the flanges off of this kit and put in on my DIY manifold. also it is only $618 AUD which is dirt cheap compared to what I can find here. Please comment on this.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Turbocharger-turbo-Kit-Subaru-WRX-Top-Intercooler-02-06-/140609413484?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20bcf9616c

 
or 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Honda-Civic-D-Series-Complete-Turbo-Kit-turbocharger-/140718493048?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20c379cd78

 

I know I should really be doing some study but i'm tired of buying things lol so I wanna get the buying list kinda over with then Ill have about 2 weeks to 1 month of waiting on everything to arrive and that will give me some study time in the arvo's. Thanks.

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Yes, of course you can make your own turbo header, it's done often.

 

The first one you posted has a better sized turbo for what you want, but I'm not seeing a turbo flange in that one, maybe I'm just missing it.

 

I honestly had no idea it was so hard to get the stuff you need where you are at. That is a really huge disadvantage. I put this together for less than you paid for that header (including the price of the engine itself).

 

boogturb_zps3e69ad6c.jpg

 

Now, most of this stuff if just junk from around my shop that I made. A chunk of tubing here, a hose there kinda thing. At this point, once you get that turbo, you should be almost ready to go with just fab work and time. 

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Yes, of course you can make your own turbo header, it's done often.

 

The first one you posted has a better sized turbo for what you want, but I'm not seeing a turbo flange in that one, maybe I'm just missing it.

 

I honestly had no idea it was so hard to get the stuff you need where you are at. That is a really huge disadvantage. I put this together for less than you paid for that header (including the price of the engine itself).

 

boogturb_zps3e69ad6c.jpg

 

Now, most of this stuff if just junk from around my shop that I made. A chunk of tubing here, a hose there kinda thing. At this point, once you get that turbo, you should be almost ready to go with just fab work and time.

"junk" lol must be a bit of fun to see what you can throw together. Btw nice buggie looks like it'd be crazy little beast to drive

 

So i looked again and found this beauty of a kit for ka24e (same manifold bolt position as z24 - different port size/shape) http://www.ebay.com/itm/240SX-S13-KA24E-2-4L-SOHC-T04E-T3-T3-T4-Turbo-Kit-Turbo-Manifold-Single-Cam-KA24-/200713816541?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ebb79c9dd&vxp=mtr

 

Thats around $1400 AUD somwhere. The same kit here would probably cost more but that postage just breaks my heart. Who knows I may just settle for this complete kit because its looks so nice and I may just have to fork another 2k out :ninja:

 

Its either that or I buy this WRX turbo setup and hope it works good, and also buy a ka24e turbo exhaust manifold as they come in cast iron.

$618 for the kit and yes i cannot find the turbo flange either. And $250 odd for the manifold - $300 after shipping maybe.

 

I've long heard that using the thin steel of a header is not good with a turbo. It will overheat and fail. Instead use thick iron plate. Either cast iron or welded iron tubing ("steam pipe").

Hmm yea I was kind've thinking maybe wrap it up in exhaust tape and hope it lasts a few months before really getting creative and make a solid one.

Or Maybe Ill just buy one of these kits and sell it. Ill take a week to think about it.

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In my opinion, if you are going to run fuel injection on this, the way to go is mega squirt. It would take me forever to run through everything it will do, but it's pretty darn inexpensive and will do nearly anything you want it to. It's a bit more 'hands on' (a lot more) than just buying an programmed ecu, but you will know everything about how your system works and what it needs. There is so much written about it online that anything I tell you would just be a repeat of what someone had covered.

 

With a thin header not working with a turbo, or breaking, this is something I have heard and read very often. It totally makes sense to me and seems as if it would be true. However...back before the internet had such information on it, I put together a turbo engine using some of those really cheap generic headers, the kind that you could pretty much smash with your hand, real junk. That was around 1995 on a 52 Ford F1. That truck is still running those cheap headers and have over 100k miles on them. The cheap junkyard turbos that I dug up for it...it has went through a number of those, but the headers are fine. Now with buggies, they take a real pounding and the hot and cold cycles on them, plus the weight of the turbo, it can cause them to break, but usually not for quite a while. On a mostly street driven one, like the blue one pictured, I will still run a thin header and it's really just because I'm cheap. But, on applications like that, I am still running like a 95% success rate with the cheap ones, which would be about the same percentage as them breaking with no turbo hooked to them. Having said that, I think is some validity to running heavy walled header or a cast manifold with a turbo, but from my own personal experience, I also think it's not just a given failure if you don't.

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ok ima stick with the carb, just curios how much tuning will need to be done professionally after i learn how to set the proper turbo fuel/air mixtures on it.

The headers/extractors cost me $268 AUD brand new and they feel quite solid and good quality but i'll try my best to resell them.

be back tommorow.

After I put this turbo kit together and buy it, The only main thing missing is the exhaust system. 

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So I somehow came across this topic on a different forum talking about turbo's and that most ebay turbo's are just cheap junk.
Because of this new awakening I will be purchasing only an intercooler kit from ebay.
Will try to purchase quality products but as cheap as possible mainly second-hand.
Will update when I find matches.

For now should i bid on this turbo? its got some wear and tear but its genuine. just wondering how performance will be affected by it? Its ideal because my brother in law lives in perth metro and I can get him to go pick it up. We built an sr20det s13 from scratch for him about 2 years ago. I only helped him panel beat and assemble it and paint it. Was my first experience with a build project. We thrashed it for a year and then he sold it after blowing something on it for 5 grand.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Genuine-Garrett-t28-turbo-/271520941094?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f37e8c426&_uhb=1

Just got a text from the z18 guy with the cast iron turbo manifold and he said sorry for the late reply but he still wants to sell it to me.
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So can I just get this confirmed please.
I need :
Wastegate
Blow off valve
Turbo Charger
Oil lines
Intercooler
Piping Kit
Dump pipe


So thats all I can think of and that I know of. What else is necessary? Thanks.

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First, don't bid on that turbo, the nicks in the impeller are bad enough to throw it out of balance. 

 

Now...I too have heard about the cheap ebay turbos being junk. Here is the thing though, I have literally rebuilt over 100 turbos in my life, as in had them totally apart down to the very last piece that will come apart and there is just really not much to them. On your normal (non ceramic ball bearing turbo) a person would be VERY hard pressed to tell any difference from the internals of the cheap "junk" turbo or one with a name brand on it. What has happened here is a very small handful of guys who run massive amounts of boost have tried to run a cheap turbo and had it come apart. This in turn lead to every kid on the street who only runs 8 to 10 psi on his buzzy little car thinking that he has the same needs as some full blown racer at 25 psi, running an anti-lag system at 800 horsepower, which of course he does not.

 

The reality of it is that like everything, now and again, you will get a cheap turbo with a seal installed incorrectly and it may leak a little oil, but 99% of turbo failures can be traced back to the owner of the turbo doing something wrong. There are just as many failures of name brand turbo as there are the no name ones, it's just that you don't hear someone blame the name brand one. There are thousands and thousand of those cheap junk turbos running just fine on regular, low boost engines.

 

Ultimately, the choice is yours of course, but I thought you should probably know the real truth about it so you can make an informed decision rather than base it on guy who like to name drop. Having said that...I personally do not run the cheap turbos (most of my friends do), but it's because I am even more cheap. Most of the time, I dig through a wrecking yard, get all the parts I need to put the size I want together and I will be in the whole deal like 50 bucks.

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ok so I scored the z18 manifold and he will be posting it tommorow. It has a standard t3 flange on it and I will be buying a nice turbo off of ebay for under $300. Got my EFI pump today and looks solid. Can't wait to see more arriving! As soon as I get this turbo kit bought and on its way, I can start on my exhaust setup and then save up probably another $1200-1500 for some 31" muddies. man so much $$$

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Updated list

FPR Malpassi Gen     - Bought
Upgraded Carby        - Bought 
Oil Pump                    -Bought
Fuel pump                  - Bought          
Carb Hat                     - Bought
MSD ignition 8762 
     - Bought  
Intercooler Kit             - Bought         
Turbo RB25                -  Bought      
New RAD                    - Bought        
Turbo Manifold Z18     - Bought
Complete Rebuild kit  - Bought

Oil lines                       - Looking
??????
??????


I have bought many other things but mostly cosmetic and necessary replacements.
The turbo I bought has a internal wastegate, So I won't need one.
Can someone please comment on my list and tell me what is missing. Cheers

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You have all the main stuff as far as I can see. There will be some small things like clamps, fittings and I would HIGHLY suggest a wide band tuner, if the engine goes lean under boost, it will melt fast. This will let you know where your mixture is at all times. http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/

Which brings us to carb jets, you will probably need some, but you won't know what size until you have it running and have seen what the wide band is telling you.

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Thanks smoke, I am going to the auto store on sunday and going to buy a couple metres of vacuum hose, Also going to look into buying some small clamps and large ones I want to have plenty of what I need. A Friend of mine (retired mechanic) Is going to teach me how to rebuild an engine when the time is right.
Before this i will degrease polish and paint the block/head/manifolds with heat resistant paint. 
Oh awesome so the wideband can tell me how rich/lean I am running? 

I am in the process of looking for a Blow off valve/Dump Valve and/or Pop off valve. I think i only need blow off valve or maybe not IDK lol. But I need to look more into to them. Unless you can steer me clear thanks man!
Also going to be looking into a 2.5" exhaust system that I will buy the parts for and build myself. Just need to familiarize a bit more with dump pipe's/down pipe's.

Updated list

FPR Malpassi Gen     - Bought
Upgraded Carby          - Bought 
Oil Pump                     -Bought
Fuel pump                   - Bought          
Carb Hat                       - Bought
MSD ignition 8762 
       - Bought  
Intercooler Kit               - Bought         
Turbo RB25                 -  Bought      
New RAD                     - Bought        
Turbo Manifold Z18       - Bought
Complete Rebuild kit    - Bought

Oil lines                        - Bought
Exhaust Kit                   - looking
Wide band Tuner          - looking
Dump/Down pipe          - looking
ARP KA24E headstud  - looking
Clamps/Various            - Sunday
Vacuum Hose               - Sunday
Study about Weber Carbs - NEED TO

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You really don't "need" a blow off valve of any kind if money is starting to get tight on you, you can skip it for now. You're not going to be running enough pressure to justify it it in a huge way. Having said that...it's not a bad idea either. When you're on boost and you are building pressure, when you close the throttle blades quickly, (like when you shift), the pressure from the still spinning turbo has no where to go. With a blow off, diverter or pop off the pressure can be either blown out into the atmosphere or just back into your air cleaner. If you don't to this, it will go back through the impeller of the turbo. At lower pressure, it's pretty rare for that to cause any damage, but at high pressure it can. Also, by not having it go back through the turbo, it keeps the blades spinning fast, so when you do shift, it's right back up on boost instead of having to 'respool' it. Your turbo is small enough and at low enough boost that I really doubt you would notice much difference, it will not have lag of any kind, but like I said, still not a bad idea.

 

Since I am on the topic of 'lag'....turbo lag is really a term that should ONLY be used for draw through set ups and really has no place even being mentioned in a good blow through set up. Everyone loves to use that word, but it's just not at all accurate. You don't have 'lag' in a blow through. What you have is the way your car runs when off boost and the way your car runs on boost. It would be like saying a car without a turbo has lag throughout its entire RPM range because it never builds boost. Many times, I will drive a car for years with no turbo, so I know VERY well what the engine feels like in naturally aspirated form. When I install a turbo, the engine runs pretty much exactly the same when not on boost. It leaves the same way and is the same amount of response that it did with no turbo. The only difference is now, when it builds boost, I just have like twice as much power than before.

 

For street engines that are running low boost and not meant to be doing any massive, super high pressure racing, I really discourage folks from changing the engine much from the way it came stock. Things like lowering the compression really kill the the low end, off boost of an engine and make it much less fun to drive around, sort of soggy when not building pressure. If you do it right, you will not get detonation with stock compression when on boost. Now, on really high performance, high boost engines, there comes a point where you will just not be able to stop detonation if you have a normal compression ratio. This is why those cars will run like 6 to 1 and sometime even lower. It makes it so they can run a massive amount of boost. But, as you can imagine, a car that has 6 to 1 compression can be really sluggy when not building pressure. It's why they use things like nitrous or anti-lag to spool the turbo when they are getting ready to launch, they want that boost now, because their car is a big of a pig without it. This sort of thing is not something you need to concern yourself with, because it has no bearing on what you will be doing in your vehicle. You will run the same as before, only now, when you're hard on the throttle, there will be a massive difference in power.

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I'll skip the BOV for now and maybe when I get this build together I'll start focusing on stuff like that. What I am really worried about is the tuning side. What essentially will be my tuning difficulties and what can I do to combat them. I know this may be a broad question but, I just want you to shed a bit of light on the tuning side so im not fully in the darkness about it.

So I'm looking into building my own dump pipe now and the turbo I bought has an internal wasetgate. So I've bought the flanges for my exhaust setup 1x 6 bolt dump pipe flange. 2x pair of coupler/joiner flanges. I have looked into exhaust systems and what I've got from it is that I can just get some straight through piping and go from the turbo straight out the back with no mufflers or anything, is that right? or maybe I will need a exhaust tip.

Also looked into the LM2 wideband tuner for the basic kit its about $400 so i'll take a couple days to think about it, I just don't really understand it much is all. Its really only going to tell me what I need to improve right? But I don't know if ill be able to improve it in the end is what i'm afraid of, but I would love to do everything myself. What I'm trying to say is If I buy the LM2 tuner, If I learn how to tune carby's and whatever else is needed will I need to take it to a specialist? 
Thanks for your time man its a real boost and much needed.

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The exhaust with no muffler and out the back 'should' be quiet enough not to bug you too much. If it does, adding something later won't be a big deal.

 

Tuning is easy as long as you don't let it overwhelm you. Look at it this way, that carb you have would run that engine with no turbo and MOST of your driving is going to be a lot like having no turbo. The idle, the light cruise, motoring down the road, this will all act similar to a naturally aspirated engine. Sure, that part need a little fine tuning, but no more worrisome than if you had no turbo.

 

What you are going to find is...if you left the carb just the way it is, when the turbo builds boost, the engine will go lean (too much air in its air to fuel ratio). This is not a big deal when it happens on a non turbo engine, it may sputter, cough, ping and so on and if you kept running it like that, eventually will do some damage. With a turbo on full boost and a lean condition, it can make the internals of your engine look as if someone took a plasma cutter to them. So, your big concern here is going to be main jets. You are going to want to get larger ones. Going too big will not hurt your engine like going to small will. It won't run great if they are too big, but at least it will be safe.

 

So how do you know what size of main jet you will need to be running to make it safe and also make it run good? This is where a wideband tuner comes in. It records your air fuel mixture at every rpm. You can go back over it and see where your mixture went lean, or where it is too rich and at what RPM. This tells you what set of jets needs to be changed and will give you a rough idea about how much. 

 

In example if you are seeing that when your engine was on boost that it was like a 10 to 1 air fuel ratio, that's a little too much fuel, so you can go a little smaller on the main jetting and get better performance. When you got your air to fuel mixture in the high 11s to low 12a (11.8 to 12.2ish) when on boost, that's a pretty safe spot. Some people go leaner than that, I personally do not. Now, if you get a lean reading, it's the same thing, only the other direction, you need bigger jetting. My wideband has a feature that will make a light come on or even shut down the engine if it goes to lean. I use the light. You set it so the warning light will come on if the mixture goes above X number. I set mine at 12.9. I don't want it to be on boost any leaner than that. If the light comes on, I lift my foot right away, drive back and up the jetting a few sizes. It's trial and error, even a little time consuming, but with the wideband, very easy. So no, you can do this yourself.

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Updated list

FPR Malpassi Gen     - Bought
Upgraded Carby          - Bought 
Oil Pump                     -Bought
Fuel pump                   - Bought          
Carb Hat                       - Bought
MSD ignition 8762 
       - Bought  
Intercooler Kit               - Bought         
Turbo RB25                 -  Bought      
New RAD                     - Bought        
Turbo Manifold Z18       - Bought
Complete Rebuild kit    - Bought

Oil lines                        - Bought
Exhaust Kit                   - Bought
Wide band Tuner          - Will buy in a couple weeks
Dump/Down pipe          - Bought
Clamps/Various            - Bought
Vacuum Hose 4m         - Bought

Study about Weber Carbs - Getting there
ARP KA24E headstud  - Maybe Later

 

Have bought engine stand and many other things. Also really coming along with my Rodeo which is awesome, Starting to really love this and get the hang of things. Been talking to alot of people about rebuilding the engine and my ex mechanic friend is going to take all my block internals to his friend to get prepped for me which is awesome again. 
I was quite uneasy about this build at times as it is my first, but now with a lot of help from "smoke" which I appreciate to the utmost.
Should have everything by this week that I need for the entire build except the Wide Band Tuner(not-purchased) and Exhaust kit/Dump pipe (purchased) which is not needed atm. Also BOV and some other things maybe but all is looking very good.

Also what I was thinking about the Carb was the idle/mixture screws. I watched a video on youtube showing that If you want to set them by ear you adjust them until you find the highest point of idle and thats the best mixture ratio for your car. Providing all your vacuum problems and gaskets are sealed which will be the case hopefully. Found a good video on 720 Z24 vacuum lines which is just what I needed. So really what I thought was can I just do this and make it run a bit to rich on idle to counteract boost? cheers

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There will be no boost at idle, you will adjust it just like a none turbo engine. There will be no boost when just driving it around normally without putting a load on the engine, that will be the same as a non turbo engine as well. Also...the idle screws only fatten or lean up the idle, as soon as you hit the throttle, they hardly matter anymore, so no. The only time you will need more fuel is when you are on boost and most of your driving (unless at a race track) you will not have any boost. This will all make perfect sense once you start to drive it, you will feel it (really feel it).

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