ITzDarcy Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 So I have 3 Z24 engines with a load of parts (2 in my garage and 1 in my truck).I want to turbo one of these bad boys, But first! I want to ask the help of all to point me in the right direction that I may finally be on my way somewhere..So as I have been hinting I don't know much about building/rebuilding engines but I am a keen learner and have already starting buying parts and have studied pretty much every forum/post with z24 upgrading/turbo apllications for the last month. Can anyone help me with my quest to create a complete z24t engine and listing of what items I need and what needs to be done to them. I have read 100's of posts and cannot find a solid list, Apart from Davezilla's posts but I still need more to be able to do this myself. I live out in the bush of WA working on cattle farms but we do have a mechanic that works on all the vehicles in my area and hes a good bloke so he could help me out if needed but I want to know from you guys what is needed as he is always working.So my d21 is a 1988 Nissan Navara 4x4 KingCab : My Truck is currently getting new interior and fender flares put in so I cannot get a more recent picture until i get it back. I found this rusty beauty in a paddock while working. I didnt take a pic of the engine but this will have to do, As my boss is leasing this farm I couldn't help myself. I will have to contact the owner some time later on and go back and go to town on the parts. It looks bad on the outside but it has only been there since 2008 and the engine doesn't look as bad as the outside. I have a Weber 38/38 coming that will arrive next week in the post and am currently searching for a cheap ka24 intake manifold in australia that I can buy otherwise I will be force to get one shipping from the U.S.I have new Z24 Extractors coming aswell just need to find a suitable exhaust system.Finding an upgraded CAM is also proving hard can anyone provide info on a suitable upgrade?So what I really want to find out is what items will be needed to safely and properly run a z24 engine on 6-8psi daily I am planning on spending 2-2.5k on this build if needed cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 First, extractors aren't needed and will move you farther away from what you want. The exhaust has to run the turbo so what you really need is the turbo exhaust manifold from a Z18ET engine. It fits the Z24 head and they already exist out there where you are. Second, this is a Z24 and a KA24 intake does not fit this head. Now you need to say if this will be a draw through or a blow through set up. I assume mentioning a 38/38 you are planning a carby set up and not EFI. I would run a blow through set up myself as the cross flow Z24 head is perfect for this and can run an inter cooler to increase efficiency. 1 Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Thanks for the knowledge "datzenmike". But somewhere along the long i mustve have been mislead about the ka intake bolting up to the z24. And I am definitely going to do a blow through setup as i was thinking last night I forgot to mention quite a few things. Also as this is going to most likely be a 6 month+ project for me I will be running my truck with stock motor whilsts i work on my new engine. As for the extractors shit! oh well hopefully now that im here i wont make anymore costly misktakes like that. Like I said i'm new to this.Damn was working on my 89 rodeo all day and forgot what I wanted to mention, it will come back to me maybe tommorow hopefully. And currently doing body work and interior work on this 4x4 then will respray it and sell it to put towards this project or refund the money i put into it lol. hopefully will get 3000-4000 for it once im done.So you would suggest z18 intake and exhaust manifolds? If so ill get right on that! As for the fuel delivery system, I think people have suggested an efi ford pump?Also for the blow through do I look for a Blow through hat for the for the 38/38 carby?what are some other things I can start searching for to be able to see a bigger picture. Cheers thanks alot.Once i know what i need i will get them ordered then sit back and start studying as to how I can make them all sing together in harmony. Quote Link to comment
smoke Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Here is where you can get a hat for your carb. http://www.turbogemini.com/index.htm For a pump, there are a few options here. You can use the e2000 fuel pump found on a lot of ford trucks, vans and so on. You will need a boost sensitive pressure regulator. Something like this will work fine. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321113806011?lpid=82 The idea of course being that you need your fuel pressure to rise as boost rises so the pressure in the fuel bowl of the carb does not just push the fuel back into the tank. A person can lock out the ignition timing to a set amount and just leave it, but there are better ways. The best way is to run the normal amount of timing you would be without a turbo, but then have it retard the timing x amount per pound of boost. This is called 'boost retard'. Honestly, you do not have to get really fancy here, a stock engine responds VERY well to turbo charging. Making it run right and last is all in the tuning of it and once you get the hang of that, it's a snap really. I'm speaking from a lot of experience with this, I turbo a LOT of things and would be happy to help you out along the way. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 The Z18ET intake is EFI and no use for a carb so stick with your Z24. The Z18ET exhaust has the turbo mount right on it and will save a lot of plumbing and welding fails. I think Weber used to make a box to enclose the carb in and pressurized air from the turbo is forced into that. This also eliminates fuel/air from being forced out through gaskets and throttle shafts. If only running 6-9 PSI probably a top hat blow in will do. Stock fuel pressure is about 3.5 PSI so as smoke said anything near or above that and gas can't be forced in. Stock pistons are ok for 5-8 PSI boost and a short blasts to 10 PSI but constant high boost will eventually cause them to fail. (If going higher get forged pistons) Excessive heat is what does this including detonation. Compressing air makes it hotter. This is how a diesel engine works but it will destroy a gas engine. If you are building from scratch you can do a few things to reduce or eliminate overly hot intake air rather than dealing with the problem after it's caused. You can reduce this by drawing fresh intake air from in front of the rad, include an inter cooler to remove compressed intake air heat, alcohol injection cools the intake air through evaporation, a larger rad that keeps the engine at a steady constant temperature, an oil cooler (almost a must) Probably more but... Find a high volume KA24E or DE oil pump from a D-21. Look identical to the Z24 pump but has13% longer rotors internally. Never hurts to have lots of fresh oil available. The turbo needs it and also heats the oil so a cooler is a good idea. 1 Quote Link to comment
smoke Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Yeah, keep the EFI if you can, much better. I don't know about that particular style weber, because I have never bothered to try and blow through that one. I can tell you that a good IDF will handle up to about 15 psi before the throttle shafts start drooling and you need to o-ring them. With a Dellorto, like a DRLA, I have ran over 30 psi through them and never had a leak, but...apples and oranges on that. Cast pistons will last above that, BUUUUT, not without the proper work done to the system. It's not the pressure that kills them, or even the power, it's detonation. Problem is, most turbo engines have detonation and the owners don't even know it until it's too late. The key here is to take all precautions to avoid detonation. The two big ones are lack of fuel on boost and too much timing. A boost sensitive alcohol/water injection system makes a HUGE difference in cooling. With stock internals, you really don't want your fuel mixture to go leaner than 12 when on boost. I run mine in the high 11s. Keep in mind, I am talking about an old, shitty, stock air cooled VW engine here. I run 17 psi through it I'm not exactly recommending this much on stock stuff, just saying not to be afraid to (as long as you set it up right and never let it go lean or have too much timing). However, if you can do the efi system, that is by far the best choice, 1 Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Damn I feel bombarded lol but its good! thanks again smoke and datzenmike.I will post the items i am eyeing up just for confirmation before I go ahead and buy them. Some items I may buy from the wreckers but will still post for confirmation.Since I have already bought a brand new EMPI twin barrel 38 sports carby Im going to have to stick with the carby. But as you have been saying "smoke" if done correctly all should be well. That is exactly what I want to do, I want to do this right the first time (learn from others mistakes).For drawing fresh air intake is it possible to do a snorkel setup?So have the timing set to stock settings and it will stay like that throughout the build? The thing im finding a bit tricky is getting my head around a "boost retard" can anyone refer me to an actual product that I can look at/buy. Will definitely need more info on this.Alcohol/water injection system I will definitely have to get my hands on. What type and how big though I do not know. oil pump - Here So the e2000 is an externally mounted fuel pump right? does that mean i just go with the stock z24 intank pump? Fuel pump - Here also found this looks kinda the same as z24 intank - HereTurbo FPR - HereThanks for the gemini website "smoke" but I somehow came across this site also. Blow through hat - HereAs for the weber Box that you referred to "datzenmike" I cannot find anything on it, but the hat should do.I will be buying a turbo kit with intercooler just havn't decided upon which one, maybe a T28 garret?For the rad is it not possible to keep the stock radiatior if not what model will fit or will it take some work to get a larger rad to fit. As for the forged pistons - I have tried looking for a set but cannot find any.Anyone have ideas on how I could possibly gain z24 forged pistons if not willing to sell some?Also the z18 turbo exhaust manifold I also cannot find anywhere so where would you suggest me to search for one or would a z20s datsun 510 manifold fit? - HereOn the mindful side of things I am going to need to study a bit more before I can understand fuel/air mixtures more readily and then I should be able to have a bit of fun.Also I'm guessing I will need all new fuel lines and clamps etc.. to deal with the extra pressures?Thanks again that took me a while lol.. be back tommorow. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 There are several turbo books out there covering theory and practical information that goes far beyond me. Smoke may know the names of them. Might be a good idea to read up first before you buy yourself down the wrong road. Quote Link to comment
smoke Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 There are a lot of choices for boost retard. This is a pretty common one. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8762?seid=srese1&gclid=CJrQ8aDq7L4CFQaBfgodVlwA5Q It's pretty straight forward stuff really. When you're not on boost, which will realistically be most of the time, you want your timing to act as if it was just on a regular non turbo engine. This give you the best drivability and mpg. However, when you start to boost, the full or all in mechanical advance you would run on a non turbo engine will be too much and will cause detonation. The box shown above is adjustable, so you can set it to pull out X amount of timing per pound of boost. So, lets say that you want your on full boost timing to be 24 degrees (just a number I am using for an example) and your timing is running 34 degrees when not on boost. If you are boosting 10 psi then you would set the knob to '1' that would mean the box pulls out 1 degree of timing per pound of boost it reads. So when at your full boost of 10 psi, it would pull out 10 degrees and you would be at the 24 you want. A snorkel would be fine as long as you're not choking it to death with it. An alcohol injection can be made if you wish. Many guys use that winter time wiper fluid mix because it has alcohol in it. I have done just a spun aluminum can, ran by boost pressure with a line going into the intake, then a carb jet to meter it. But, a far better setup would be something like this. http://www.maperformance.com/snow-performance-boost-cooler-stage-2-water-methanol-injection-systems.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Product_Search&utm_campaign=google_base&gclid=CO_97NTu7L4CFURqfgodmJIAsw The in tank pump should be all you need on that. But the fuel pressure reg will still be needed of course. The carb box would most likely be something you would have to fab up yourself if you went that way. I can help you out with which turbo, AR size and all that, but it will be a bit much in this one post, because done right, it's not super simple. Stock rad will be fine, it's not as if you are driving around on boost all the time. There will be a little more heat when you have your foot stuck in it, but the stock system will handle it. Keep in mind, this is not a radical, high compression engine when you're just driving normal, it just acts that way when you are under boost, the rest of the time it's not a lot different than stock. I really can't help you out too much with where to find pistons or a manifold, others can maybe steer you right with that. As Mike mentioned, there are good books. A really good one is "maximum boost" by Corky Bell. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 That's the one. An aluminum pressure cooker can be modified into a box to house the carb. Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I've started by reading this article.http://www.superstreetonline.com/techarticles/130_0909_turbocharge_understanding_guide/viewall.htmlSo I see I may be getting a bit ahead of myself haha, But its ok I will slow down.What I do want to do is buy everything that I need other than the turbo itself and probably the intercooler, these I will buy last after much consideration. But as for the other parts/essentials I'd suppose they are mostly universal?.So What I will do Is list all the things you guys have suggested I get/make and edit my list on a weekly basis until I have all that I need.And I will start reading Maximum Boost after this and try to relate to your level of expertise a bit more. http://www.fusca.net/wp-content/uploads/Maximum_boost.pdf And because I will be doing this the safe way avoiding detonation having a boxed carb is not necessary I don't think right? I will read up a bit more of a Box carb vs carb hat. As for the Alcohol injection I need to read more into this or find a cheaper one if possible.I won't worry about pistons etc for now I will try to do it as safely as possible then take my chances with the rest and find out.FPR - BoughtUpgraded Carby - Bought ------------------- Will look into weber carb turbo applicationsOil Pump - FoundIntank pump - Bought ------------------- I previously bought one as my one was going out. So nevermind the e2000?Carb Hat - FoundBoost Retard - Found ------------------- Will buy this weekendSnorkel - Maybe laterAlcohol Injection - Hmmmm ------------------- Need more info Turbo kit - ? New RAD - Bought -------------------- I actually bought this a week back because I needed a new one anyway.Turbo exhaust - Looking Looking good guys thanks again.So Feel free to add to my list and I will start researching and reading a bit more about turbo apllications. Eventually I want this entire list to be bought in about 3 months or so and probably more. Quote Link to comment
smoke Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I would recommend two books for you really. I feel the fist one you should read to get a really solid grasp on things is a book called 'turbomania'. It really lays out some things in basic language and most of it will apply to what you are doing quite well. The second one being maximum boost. This will nickle and dime you a little before it's over, but nothing you can't handle and the pay off will make you very happy. Yes, a lot of the stuff is absolutely universal. 1 Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 I would recommend two books for you really. I feel the fist one you should read to get a really solid grasp on things is a book called 'turbomania'. It really lays out some things in basic language and most of it will apply to what you are doing quite well. The second one being maximum boost. This will nickle and dime you a little before it's over, but nothing you can't handle and the pay off will make you very happy. Yes, a lot of the stuff is absolutely universal. Okay hmm So I will look for Turbomania after this. I will set aside a week or so to soak up these 2 books. I could do with some reading as I do need to slow down a bit, been getting home from work and working on my cars long after dark with no garage and its raining haha. I will start buying off the list I have so far and then add more and maybe eventually refine to the point where someone else could one day work off of it. This arvo I got my new Carby installed as I couldn't wait to get in it and test it. Works superbly and came with a great set of instructions. Bad picture but it was taken only 30 minutes ago and its 8.30pm now Also yesterday arvo put some new front flares on, Just need some muddies. Got the new RAD in the post today aswell will put that in maybe tommorow and the weekend. For the meanwhile I'll start buying everything and they should arrive within the next month or so which will give me alot of time to read up. Cheers thanks again smoke. Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 So If I am going to read Turbomania I will have to buy the book itself. Ill see if maybe any libraries have it or there are any Australian sellers. Quote Link to comment
smoke Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Yeah, it's old and was not as well known due to it being for VW folks. But of course, an engine is just an air pump, so most of it is really valuable info for anything. Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 Updated listFPR - BoughtUpgraded Carby - Bought ------------------------- Will look into weber carb turbo applicationsOil Pump -BoughtFuel pump - Bought Carb Hat - BoughtBoost Retard - Bought ------------------------- Will buy this weekendSnorkel - Maybe laterAlcohol Injection - Found -------------------------- Need more info Turbo kit - Last but not least New RAD - Bought Turbo exhaust - DIY Manifold -------------------- Will be buying T3 flange and down pipe connection to make my own Exhaust manifold.Complete gasket kit - Bought Also Started reading up on "Maximum Boost". Am literally that busy atm its not funny.Started polishing up 1 of the spare engines I have, Will paint it black later.Will post pictures of items when I have them all together.Seeing as though I bought some extractors for z24 (mistake) I will be using the port connections on my DIY Exhaust Manifold. After abit of reasearch on making them I will give it a go. And buy a T3/T4 turbo weldable turbo flange and exhaust flange. Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 The Z18ET exhaust has the turbo mount right on it and will save a lot of plumbing and welding fails. So I was on Gumtree this morning and found a guy selling a complete L18 engine and all parts. He has the z18 exhaust turbo manifold there and I have already offered him for it. He also has the z18 wiring harness. Would it be wise that I also buy the harness aswell? And also semi pulled apart and put back together my first engine. As I put in a new head gasket. Was such a good moment when it kicked over ahaha kind've a milestone for me lol. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted June 14, 2014 Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 The Turbo exhaust manifold has nothing to do with the EFI wiring harness. Is it your intention to get the entire EFI intake manifold, ecu and airflow meter with all its various parts? None of that is useful with a carbureted Z24. Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2014 Ah yea Shit I keep forgetting the Z18 intake is EFI, and that any cars that came out turbo were EFI(I think). I'm a noob but i'm learning. So just the exhaust manifold it is. Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 So i feel a bit cheap asking this but would a Honda civic B-series suffice for a turbo kit for my build.? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Honda-Civic-B-Series-Complete-Turbo-Kit-turbocharger-/130584719213?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e6774af6d&_uhb=1 The only thing I wouldn't use would be the exhaust manifold, Ill just try sell it. Quote Link to comment
smoke Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 I could be wrong, but I think you will find that a lot of that will not be useful to you. Also, the AR is a little bit bigger than I would care to run on your pickup. Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 The biggest reason was because prices seem to be quite high in Australia, even second hand imports. If I were to buy a second hand sr20 turbo is $400+ and $400+ for the intercooler :confused:But No worrys will keep looking. Quote Link to comment
smoke Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 That's pretty high alright. Do you think you would be money ahead to buy something in the states and have it shipped to you? Quote Link to comment
ITzDarcy Posted June 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Updated listFPR - BoughtUpgraded Carby - Bought Oil Pump -BoughtFuel pump - Bought Carb Hat - BoughtMSD ignition 8762 - Bought Snorkel - Maybe Alcohol Injection - Maybe Turbo kit - Last but not least New RAD - Bought Turbo exhaust Manifold -------------------- Still deciding - KA24E or Z-series or DIYComplete Rebuild kit - Bought All I need now to to buy the actual turbo kit/ turbo manifold/ intercooler or alcohol injection (not completely, only on my list) And also I will probably be blowing out my budget but can't stop now. :thumbup: Quote Link to comment
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