L16 issues

[jvb5577]

 

 

we seen people with nice cars , they park it in tow away zones or soemthing and dont have money for the impound and goes to the dump. Just the way Datsun guys are sometimes.

 

WHAAAAA  :o

 

I would gladly take the car/truck before this is to happen..

 

I would just get the truck home.  Start to take the motor apart and see what you are working with.  Slowly rebuild that way you don't have to fork out a lot of money at once.

[Spawn]

Well, it's been a week now with the car sitting at the shop.  I've pretty much figured out that I'm going to just rent a U-Haul pickup with a trailer (not sure if I'll use the tow dolly or a full flat bed for $10 more) and go pick the truck up and bring it back here.  Then I can at least get some stuff going on it and hopefully get it on the road sooner rather than later.

 

Does anyone know if the KA24DE will bolt straight up to the stock 4 speed transmission?  If not, what transmission would I need to put in instead?  

 

I'm leaning more toward the KA24DE as I've always like the DOHC look and eventually plan on going that route, so no time like the present when just getting a replacement L16 puts me just a few hundred less than the KA24DE, and at least i know that the KA is around 30-50K miles on it.  If I'd have been able to find an L16 locally for $300 or less then I would most likely go that route, but it seems like that is just a pipe dream, as the only L16 I've come across is out in CA and I just can't seem to justify spending $500 in shipping for an engine that I don't really know enough about or have any kind of guarantee on.

[datzenmike]

The head will need way more than a trim. The combustion chamber will be punched by that valve.

 

The KA24DE will not bolt up properly to your transmission. You will need a KA 5 speed, shortened drive shaft, high pressure fuel pump, EFI wired in with relays, custom motor mounts, rad, oil pan, exhaust hooked up, convert to internally regulated alternator on and on and on......

 

Once you get it on a flat bed take it home not to your place. This will not end well. A KA swap is way over your head and wallet.

[jvb5577]

There are a lot of builds on here that have done the KA24de swap.  Read up on them and see if that is something that you want to do.  It will cost you money to do it right the first time so you are not chasing problems.  Will take you time to complete.  Seems the average cost to do this swap is $2K, that is with a cheap complete engine, trans, harness, ecu, ect.  Its the little things that add up fast.

 

If you just want to get it back on the road be patient and wait for a L series motor to come up for sale and check junk yards.  That will be your cheapest option.  No modifications too be done.  Can swap the motors in less than a day.

 

Its only been a week, one will pop up soon

[banzai510(hainz)]

KA will be about $3K all said and done and run into proplems and your not in a Datsun/Nissan freindly parts area.

No this is not a direct swap.

 

as might well get new clutch High pressure pump hosoe motor mounts need to line up ect.

 

best is to take home and pull head off to see what you have

 

 

best swap is a L16/18 for ez install and clutch issues as they both 5 bolt cranks.

[Spawn]

The head will need way more than a trim. The combustion chamber will be punched by that valve.

 

The KA24DE will not bolt up properly to your transmission. You will need a KA 5 speed, shortened drive shaft, high pressure fuel pump, EFI wired in with relays, custom motor mounts, rad, oil pan, exhaust hooked up, convert to internally regulated alternator on and on and on......

 

Once you get it on a flat bed take it home not to your place. This will not end well. A KA swap is way over your head and wallet.

 

So then it's probably not really worth trying to repair the L16 that's in the truck now?  I did manage to find an L20B that's been rebuilt for $1600 and has the manifolds, flywheel and clutch, so as far as I understand it I would just need to bolt it up to the existing 4 speed in the truck and then add some peripheral stuff to it like the alternator, water pump, fuel pump, etc.  Any specific stuff that I'm missing or not taking into consideration?  Will the L16 motor mounts work with the L20B?

 

There are a lot of builds on here that have done the KA24de swap.  Read up on them and see if that is something that you want to do.  It will cost you money to do it right the first time so you are not chasing problems.  Will take you time to complete.  Seems the average cost to do this swap is $2K, that is with a cheap complete engine, trans, harness, ecu, ect.  Its the little things that add up fast.

 

If you just want to get it back on the road be patient and wait for a L series motor to come up for sale and check junk yards.  That will be your cheapest option.  No modifications too be done.  Can swap the motors in less than a day.

 

Its only been a week, one will pop up soon

I know that I'd eventually want to put a DOHC engine in the truck, so that's why I'm thinking that if I'm looking at having to do an engine anyway, why not just bite the bullet now.  I'm not sure if it would make more sense to do it piece by piece as far as getting the engine first, and then eventually getting the tranny for it, etc.  I don't really have the convenience of being able to wait too long for an L series to come up for sale, and I don't know of any junk yards in the area, that's why I was hoping that a member from NY would have chimed in here.

 

As I've stated above, I could get hold of a rebuilt L20B with clutch & flywheel, but I don't know what other items I would need to be able to pull the L16 out and drop the L20B in with the existing 4 speed.  What other peripheral items will I need, and can they be salvaged off of the L16 (alternator, fuel pump, water pump, etc)?

[dr.feltersnatch]

Rest of the stuff should work. Clutch and flywheel will not.

[Spawn]

Rest of the stuff should work. Clutch and flywheel will not.

I'm confused. I was previously told that in order to be able to use the L20B that I had to make sure the clutch and flywheel were on it as the units from the L16 wouldn't work on it. Did I interpret or understand something incorrectly? Why do you say that the clutch and flywheel will not work?

 

The builder said that the only thing the engine will need that he doesn't provide (in addition to the water pump, fuel pump, alternator) is the carburetor. Will the carburetor from the L16 work with the L20B and just bolt on?

[ggzilla]

Yes bit it is much smaller. Get a L20B carb. Or the almost as big Weber 32/36 for $400.

[Spawn]

Yes bit it is much smaller. Get a L20B carb. Or the almost as big Weber 32/36 for $400.

 

Well, for now I'll probably have to just stick it out with the L16 carb on there, as I have to also think about the other necessities to get the car inspected and registered here in NY (brake booster was sounding like it needed replacing, windshield wipers not working, parking and indicator lights, etc).  Eventually maybe I could get either the L20B carb or the Weber unit.  Will the engine be struggling by using the L16 carb?  Is the Weber 32/36 you're talking about a side draft carb or just a down draft like the stock units?  What's the benefit of the Weber over the stock units?

[ggzilla]

Whoa, don't get ahead of yourself. Get the truck running, then think about upgrades.

[datzenmike]

L16 and L18s flywheels have 5 mounting bolts. The L20B has 6, so this is why they won't swap.

 

$1,500 is an ok price for a good rebuild with machine shop and new rings bearings and gaskets. But how do you know what's really been replaced? You cant start it or drive it.

[Spawn]

Whoa, don't get ahead of yourself. Get the truck running, then think about upgrades.

 

Trust me, that's the one thing I wan't to do more than anything is get it back running and then get it inspected and registered!  Nothing worse than buying something you had full intention of using right away only to have to wait and plan on how to bring it back to life!  I assume you're talking about the Weber carb when you are referring to upgrades?  I'm just curious what the advantage is over stock?

[ggzilla]

The main advantage is that its brand new and doesn't have 35 years or wear on it. Second advantage is that it is jetted rich, so performs well even if the engine isn't tuned perfect

[Spawn]

L16 and L18s flywheels have 5 mounting bolts. The L20B has 6, so this is why they won't swap.

 

$1,500 is an ok price for a good rebuild with machine shop and new rings bearings and gaskets. But how do you know what's really been replaced? You cant start it or drive it.

 

This is true, but the company lists the following on their website:

"Does DSI offer a warranty on their Engines?

We specialize in, and have been building L-engines for a long time. We’re confident with our abilities to satisfy your engine needs and that our engine looks and performs new. But we also know that sometimes, people get carried away (we understand that) and do less-than-intelligent things with engines (showing off by reving unnecessarily or abusing the engine, forgetting to put oil in, or you name it), so we do not openly offer warrantees. However, if the engine is defective, broken, or anything happens at the time of delivery, then we honor our commitment and will take care of you. That’s a promise."

And I know people here like pictures, so here are some photos of the engine:

[datzenmike]

That's a '78 or '79 L20B or even for the '80 720 truck.

[dr.feltersnatch]

L16 and l18 use a smaller clutch and flywheel than an l20. L16/l18 flywheel use 5 bolts to attach to the motor l20 use 6.

Pretty much everything else accessories wise will be interchangable. So if you buy an l20 make sure it cones with a flywheel and clutch with throwout bearing collar

[dr.feltersnatch]

One other issue to be aware of is round vs square exhaust. Some exhaust ports are round and sone are square. If you find a different one than you have you will need the exhaust manifold to match as well.

[Spawn]

Ok, I've been waiting relatively patiently, and saw this come up in the classifieds on here:

http://community.ratsun.net/classifieds/item/3680-complete-l16-carb-header-dist-5sp-dogleg-and-driveshaft/

 

I'd like to get the community's opinion on this, as I'm thinking it will cost probably in the neighborhood of $1000 to ship it door-to-door (I haven't actually looked into it yet though as I don't know the dimensions or weight of everything).  I know that dock-to-dock is considerably cheaper, but I'd need to have a dock location to have it dropped off to (and I'm not sure if the seller has a dock to drop it off at).

 

I'm a little concerned with the bad's of the listing, being "some sludge in the coolant lines" & "engine had a little bit of smoke on startup" when it was ran two years ago but was apparently "happy as a clam" 'after warming up.  I would imagine that the smoke was some blow-by on the rings in the cylinders until it warmed up and things expanded to give a tighter seal, but I'm guessing that it would potentially be a costly repair after who knows how many miles.  As for the sludge in the coolant lines, wouldn't that potentially indicate that there was some oil getting into the coolant or something like that?  I've normally heard of oil being like sludge when it gets coolant in it, but not the reverse.  Guess I could ask what the oil looks like, if it has any indication of water/coolant in it.

 

Anyway, it's a tempting buy due to the fact that it has the complete engine and transmission, and the day that I bought the truck I was planning on putting in a 5 speed, so what do you guys think?  I'm trying to let my head rule any purchase before my heart, hence the post to get your opinions!

[jvb5577]

Find something local that you don't have to ship.  Thats what I think.  So you can visually see it and check it out.

[Spawn]

Find something local that you don't have to ship.  Thats what I think.  So you can visually see it and check it out.

jvb5577, I would love to do that, but unfortunately there doesn't appear to be anything locally.  Anything and everything that I've seen so far for sale has been normally out on the west coast, or at least a few states away.  I haven't seen any listing or even a post from another NY member yet.  Granted I haven't gone through every single post on Ratsun, but I don't think I have enough time in the day to do that, and I doubt that all (or possibly any) NY members are selling an L16 in good condition, although I only need one!

 

I know that there is a members list, but is there any other way (short of viewing each member individually) to be able to tell which members live in NY state, and preferably which city in the state (or if they are even still active members)?  The downside is that the state is quite large, so even if I manage to find someone "local" to NY, it could still be up to a 5-6 hour drive just to get to that "local" person.

[windowless66]

Your in a bit of a predicament. I've read through all your posts and you seem to be a bit all over the place.

Understandable when

1. Your car's at a shop

2. You don't have the money to get the job done where it sits

3. Nowhere close or reliable to do the repairs

4. You can't find a second hand engine that doesn't need at least a head gasket

 

 You can shoot down my advice like you have done with a few of the others. But I'll give it to you anyway :P

 

1.You have to get the car to your motel, They said you could bring the car there.

2. Take off the head and see what the damage is.  If you are really lucky the the damage might not be as bad as predicted and only a head and headgasket would be needed to get you running. Which can be done with limited tools. If not your no worse off either and you know what your next step is.

3. Weigh up the cost of replacing the engine and paying someone else to do the work (if you can't get it to your friends parents house) and what you paid for the 620 in the first place.

It sadly might be a better option to sell your 620 as is and wait for another to come up. And at least if you have it with you you'd be able to asses your options better and get a better price than trying to haggle over the phone.

All this also gives you time, and something may come up cheap nearby that is an affordable option.

Good-luck with it all and I hope you get it sorted soon.

[Spawn]

Your in a bit of a predicament. I've read through all your posts and you seem to be a bit all over the place.

Understandable when

1. Your car's at a shop

2. You don't have the money to get the job done where it sits

3. Nowhere close or reliable to do the repairs

4. You can't find a second hand engine that doesn't need at least a head gasket

 

 You can shoot down my advice like you have done with a few of the others. But I'll give it to you anyway :P

 

1.You have to get the car to your motel, They said you could bring the car there.

2. Take off the head and see what the damage is.  If you are really lucky the the damage might not be as bad as predicted and only a head and headgasket would be needed to get you running. Which can be done with limited tools. If not your no worse off either and you know what your next step is.

3. Weigh up the cost of replacing the engine and paying someone else to do the work (if you can't get it to your friends parents house) and what you paid for the 620 in the first place.

It sadly might be a better option to sell your 620 as is and wait for another to come up. And at least if you have it with you you'd be able to asses your options better and get a better price than trying to haggle over the phone.

All this also gives you time, and something may come up cheap nearby that is an affordable option.

Good-luck with it all and I hope you get it sorted soon.

 

Well, a bit of an update, but not really much to report yet.  I've booked a trailer for next Tuesday to bring the truck back to where I'm staying.  At that point I hope to be able to tear into the engine somewhat to at least find out how bad things really are.

 

I appreciate all of the responses to date.  I haven't yet given up hope on the 620 as of yet.  I've even begun looking into the possibility of a KA swap if the engine inside it is too far gone, but something tells me that will be more of a pipe dream or at least a more long term project.

 

Windowless66, I think you pretty much summed everything up for me, and also made me realize that I probably was shooting down advice, albeit not intentionally.  I guess I just tend to overthink things too much sometimes.  To any and all who I may have shot down advice from, I sincerely apologize!  I do appreciate every bit of knowledge and advice from people who have more knowledge than I do, especially when it comes to the 620.

 

Hopefully when I get the truck here next week I can grab a few pics to post for those interested.

[Spawn]

Ok, I finally managed to co-ordinate with a co-worker to go and pick up my 620.  We trailered it back to where I'm staying, and hopefully I can start tearing into the engine on Sunday when I have my next day off.  Anyway, I know how much you guys like pics, so I took several and am posting them here.

 

[jvb5577]

WOW!!!!  Very nice looking truck.

 

Now just start tearing into that engine.

 

Your fender badges are the wrong ones.  Try and find the Datsun1600 ones.  Probably changed when it was painted