L16 issues

[banzai510(hainz)]

but unfortunately I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place with regards to being able to do the work myself as I don't have any tools or workspace to be able to do it.  

 

 

rules out a KA swap!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

find a motor but either way this is going to double the cost of this rig.

 

there is a few guys in NY with Datsuns(on here) find them maybe they canhelp you out

[datzenmike]

With the valve cover off look at the valve springs. If a valve snapped off the spring would have jumped out of place with nothing to hold it. possibly just the valve head came off and jammed between piston and head. If so maybe just a new head. Can't see a valve stem having enough room to get turned around in the cylinder.

 

 

If the head comes off be sure to block the chain tensioner from falling out.

[Spawn]

but unfortunately I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place with regards to being able to do the work myself as I don't have any tools or workspace to be able to do it.  

 

 

rules out a KA swap!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

find a motor but either way this is going to double the cost of this rig.

 

there is a few guys in NY with Datsuns(on here) find them maybe they canhelp you out

  

With the valve cover off look at the valve springs. If a valve snapped off the spring would have jumped out of place with nothing to hold it. possibly just the valve head came off and jammed between piston and head. If so maybe just a new head. Can't see a valve stem having enough room to get turned around in the cylinder.

 

 

If the head comes off be sure to block the chain tensioner from falling out.

banzai510, I'm only unable to work on vehicles while I'm here. At my home in Alberta I have a two car garage and a bunch of tools (although no engine hoist or compressor & air tools).

I've been hoping that any Ratsun members in NY would reply in the thread, but so far nothing. If anyone knows how best to get hold of any NY members, please let me know!

 

Datzenmike, I was wondering the same thing about the valve dropping into the cylinder and being able to flip around so that the stem would puncture the piston head. Not knowing enough about the engine yet, I'm not sure if the while valve and stem would have enough room to tumble around, or if the stem broke and the valve head with a bit of the stem dropped in and flipped over.

 

So would it be advantageous to have the shop pull the valve cover and check the valve train and see if the spring popped off or if something more severe happened? If the head does have to come off, where is the chain tensioner and how do I stop it from falling out?

 

Please forgive any stupid questions as I learn more about the truck and the engine in it. Hopefully I'll eventually get up to speed with the rest of you. Of course that would happen faster if I could do things myself... sigh

[dr.feltersnatch]

Search youtube for datsun head gasket. Hainz posted a great video. If I wasnt on my phone I would post a link.

[Spawn]

Ok, I finally heard back from the shop.  Definitely not able to go the way of repairing the engine that's in it now.  The tech said that the local machine shop there would be able to do the majority of the work, but aren't able to find replacement pistons (something I would have to source personally).  He said that all of the work, minus the pistons, would run around $2000, to which he even suggested perhaps making it a project truck and sourcing a different engine (which I'd already been doing).  After hearing the price, I know that I can get a KA24DE for about $1000, but not sure what transmission I'd have to put behind it, and how much a custom driveshaft would cost, although I think that with all three of those things that I would probably be around the $2000 range (possibly lower or higher).

 

So now the question: Is it worth me just getting the one L16 that's been offered up for an inexpensive repair, not knowing the strength of the overall engine except for knowing it needs a head gasket, or do I commit to a longer swap for more money, but then have a more powerful, modern engine (with about 30-50k on it)?

 

What would the collective wisdom of Ratsun advise?  I've tried finding an L16 through Google and Bing online, but nothing is showing up, and I don't know that there are any pick-a-parts in my area (some of my local co-workers have indicated that there aren't any anymore as it's more cost effective for them to just scrap the cars for metal or something like that.

[banzai510(hainz)]

the NY guys dont response much. One just got a 510 wagon in there.

 

If you can get the car hone that would help alot but if not your in a world of hurt(1200-1500$). Cause this guys might not know Datsun and everything takes 2 to 3 time longer as they dont know the vehicle.

I can do a head in about 2.5 hourson a  non smog L motor like a L16. Did it twice in one day. dont need a engine hoist to do a head.  But if shop does it your at their mercy and youllmost like just dump the truck as most entry level datsun owners do.

 

thats why I said take head off so one can look at the piston and a head would be a ez swap with nothing breaks(lots of salt in NY roads so cant verify what happns).

 

 

as mike says I never head of a valve snapping i half. But then I never seen a crank snap in half till one on ratsun did show up.

This is why Im a firm beliver to never own a classic car/or just a OLD car in general if you live in Apartments ,. On military post ect. Just no tools and place to work on them and store them correctly.

[Spawn]

the NY guys dont response much. One just got a 510 wagon in there.

 

If you can get the car hone that would help alot but if not your in a world of hurt(1200-1500$). Cause this guys might not know Datsun and everything takes 2 to 3 time longer as they dont know the vehicle.

I can do a head in about 2.5 hourson a  non smog L motor like a L16. Did it twice in one day. dont need a engine hoist to do a head.  But if shop does it your at their mercy and youllmost like just dump the truck as most entry level datsun owners do.

 

thats why I said take head off so one can look at the piston and a head would be a ez swap with nothing breaks(lots of salt in NY roads so cant verify what happns).

 

 

as mike says I never head of a valve snapping i half. But then I never seen a crank snap in half till one on ratsun did show up.

This is why Im a firm beliver to never own a classic car/or just a OLD car in general if you live in Apartments ,. On military post ect. Just no tools and place to work on them and store them correctly.

 

banzai, I'm pretty sure at this point I'll end up paying their 1 or 2 hours of shop time that they have into the car, and then figure out how to get the truck either to my buddy's place (he thinks his parents would have a fit if he brought another vehicle there that would just remain parked until it's repaired (he's got an STi and a 240sx currently parked there waiting to get finished - and a 620 too if I remember correctly).  Unfortunately his garage/shop is the closest to where the car currently is (about 20 miles away) so I might be able to just get a tow strap, disconnect the driveshaft and tow it over to his parents place (if they will let him).  If not, then I'm looking at a much further trip with the truck of at least 50 miles (maybe a bit more) to get it to another friends place in Albany, although I haven't talked to him about that possibility yet, or finally just bringing it all the way up to where I'm staying in Malta, NY to be worked on at a later point in time.  The hotel said they don't have an issue with me parking the truck here, as I've been staying here for almost 3 years now.

 

I agree with you 100% about owning an old car and living in an apartment.  Unless they have a dedicated work area, it's definitely asking for trouble.  I just need to get it revived so that I can eventually get it back to my home where there won't be any issue with having repair space.  I guess I'm in a bit of a unique situation, although I'm sure there are others out there who've had similar experiences.

 

Do you have any suggestions on how to possibly get hold of the NY guys?  I was thinking that I could post an ad in the Classified section saying that I'm looking for an engine in the NY area, or even just to gain contact with some NY people who may be more familiar with what's available for repair parts and such around NY.  Not sure if that's the best way to go about it, as I don't want to turn the Classified section into a personal's ad!  :rofl:

[ggzilla]

Is it worth me just getting the one L16 that's been offered up for an inexpensive repair?

 

 

I wouldn't. I'd.go with a good running L16 or L18. Keep it simple and on budget.

[Spawn]

I wouldn't. I'd.go with a good running L16 or L18. Keep it simple and on budget.

 

Only problem is that I haven't seen any other listings for L16 or L18's!  Anybody happen to know of a stash of ones in good running order somewhere that I could source one from at a price similar to what pwee4u2c was selling his at?

[ggzilla]

Have it shipped from California for $300. Or get an L20B with clutch & flywheel attached.

[Spawn]

Have it shipped from California for $300. Or get an L20B with clutch & flywheel attached.

 

You mean have the one that pwee4u2c offered shipped out from his location in California for $300?  I haven't yet looked into how much shipping will cost from CA to NY, but people are telling me anywhere from $200-300 for shipping.

 

I'd be interested in the L20B, but again, I'm not seeing any listings of complete engines in good running order for sale.  Anyone know of either an L16, L18 or L20B (with clutch & flywheel) out on the east coast, or at least closer to the east coast?  If not, then I will obviously have to ship from a further distance, but I'm thinking that the closer the engine the less it will cost to get to me.

 

I'm really getting anxious to get my truck back and get it on the road (as well as fix up some of the typical things that need fixing)!  I only test drove it for about 30 minutes, and then my buddy drove it the 400 miles from VA up to NY!

[banzai510(hainz)]

is there away to pull it with a strap w/o ruin the valance?

 

join AAA then call the truck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spawn]

is there away to pull it with a strap w/o ruin the valance?

 

join AAA then call the truck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Banzai,  I'm not too worried about getting the truck out to a place where I can work on it, what I'm worried about right now is getting a replacement engine.  So far the only luck that I've had is with pwee4u2c's offer for his L16 that at a minimum will need to be shipped across the country, along with a new head gasket.  I've posted an ad in the classifieds about needing a replacement engine, but no responses yet, after about 30 views.  I'm not sure if there's someone out there with a horde of engines, or if they are just becoming very rare and hard to find.

 

If anyone reading this thread happens to know of any engines available in good condition, I would love to hear about it!  At this point because I need to get the truck ready asap so that I can get it inspected and registered in the state of NY, it looks like I may have to go with pwee4u2c's engine (not that this is a bad thing, it's just that I'm not sure how shipping will work in terms of cost and time).

[Spawn]

Ok, I'm a little concerned now, as I was just looking into shipping for an engine.  Hopefully you guys are able to see the same information as I am when clicking on this link: https://www.uship.com/quotes/view.aspx?qrid=535e03ff72cfec8a5c5f23d1

But if not, what I essentially had was chosen an LTL shipment with a 300lb crate (estimated from datzenmike saying the engine was 255lbs and adding in some weight for the crate) that was 36"x24"x36" (not sure if that's too big or not big enough - never crated an engine before), going from 91770 to 12020 (assumed residential to residential) and the 3 quotes it came back with were $504.29, $513.68 & $518.63!  Factoring in the price of the engine at $150, I'm looking at a minimum of $650 just to get the engine here, and then I already know that I need to put on a new head gasket (hopefully that would be all that I need for it).  I've managed to find a place where I could get a DOHC KA delivered for $1015, but this probably wouldn't be advisable as the truck still has drums all the way around.

I haven't had any luck at all finding any other L engines and I'm starting to get a little disillusioned about my hopes to get the truck back on the road (the 620 was the truck that my grandfather had taught me how to drive a manual transmission on when I was about 13 or 14 so it's a little sentimental as well, although this wasn't his specific truck).

Anybody have any suggestions on what to do now?  For an extra $350-ish I can get a DOHC KA (which I would eventually want to do someday - just wasn't thinking it would be that soon after buying the truck), Or perhaps someone knows of a less expensive method of shipping the engine across the country?  I know a few people were saying around $200-$300 to ship it across the country, but I don't know if those were just numbers pulled out of the air, or if those are actual shipping costs from previous experience.

[ggzilla]

Yes, the KA will cost more to buy, and cost far more to swap in -probably $1500 for the mechanic. But if you have the money do it!

[Spawn]

Yes, the KA will cost more to buy, and cost far more to swap in -probably $1500 for the mechanic. But if you have the money do it!

 

Ya, it's a bit more to buy, and no, I don't really have the money to do it.  I'm just looking at the aspect of having an unknown mileage L16 that is known to need a head gasket (and hopefully nothing else) bought and shipped for what looks to be $650 minimum (unless anyone can let me know if there is a less expensive way of getting it to NY) which is already well more than I was expecting to pay, to paying less than $400 extra to have an engine bought and shipped to me that has more stock power & torque and will probably be a little more fun to drive (although it might lead to having to change over to discs sooner than I planned, but as long as I don't go crazy it should stop just the same with drums, albeit maybe needing a little more stopping distance).

 

I don't really have the money for either option, but my reasoning is that if I'm putting in that amount of money from the get go, then it might make more sense to do the KA24DE from the start.  I don't know if it would work with the stock tranny that's in the truck right now though.  And I guess that poses the question for those in the know, would a KA24DE from an Altima be pretty much the same as one from a Silvia and would it mate up with the stock tranny for now and a 5 speed in the future (perhaps a 5 speed from a Silvia, as it would need to be RWD)?

 

It still amazes me that it's proving to be this difficult to find an inexpensive L16, L18 or L20B in good condition!  I did manage to find an L20B that has been rebuilt to stock by a builder for $1600, but again, this is well more than what I was hoping to pay to get the truck on the road.

 

I wish I had more cash resources to be able to say money was no object, but unfortunately I don't have that luxury and need to get the truck back to running for as little as possible and as soon as possible, as there are other things that I know still need to be done to get the truck to pass inspection for the state of NY (windshield wipers aren't functioning, no left turn indicator in the rear, side markers need to be investigated as well due to the passenger front flashing when signaling a turn but the driver front not doing the same, need side window squeegees, etc, etc).  I know that they probably aren't major items, but stuff that will need to be done before getting the truck able to be registered.

 

Is there anyone from NY that happens to be reading through this thread?  If so can you PM me or reply to the thread?

[banzai510(hainz)]

His L16 is questionable to me . Maybe its a head gasket, most likely.

 

key is your in a rush when rushed youll spend more. wait a motor will come up the day after you spen alot of money and will be dont the road from you.

[datzenmike]

If you don't know much, don't have tools or a place to do this your going to get reamed and the truck will be a money pit. Save up an tow it home with you. Work on it there when you have time.

[Spawn]

His L16 is questionable to me . Maybe its a head gasket, most likely.

 

key is your in a rush when rushed youll spend more. wait a motor will come up the day after you spen alot of money and will be dont the road from you.

banzai, I agree that the L16 is just a little too unknown to ship it across the country.  Not that it couldn't be a good engine just in need of only a head gasket, but there was no compression test done on it, don't know how many miles were on it, etc.  It was basically an older gentleman's engine from a 620 that started leaking oil from the head gasket so they swapped out the engine with a second one that the man had which was redone and nicely painted.  I'm not too sure how common it is to completely replace an engine when a head gasket starts leaking, but I would think it would be easier to just change the head gasket (unless you were wanting to pull the engine out at some point to completely refreshen it, clean it up and have it looking factory fresh (or mod the heck out of it!).

 

If you don't know much, don't have tools or a place to do this your going to get reamed and the truck will be a money pit. Save up an tow it home with you. Work on it there when you have time.

datzenmike, I don't know much about Datsun's, this is true, but I am fairly handy with tools and have no problem tearing things apart and putting them back together.  I'm in the process of checking with a few friends to see if they happen to have access to a space where we can do the work.

 

I'm hoping to at least be able to get the truck to a place where we can pull the head and actually see what kind of damage is done to the rear cylinder head & piston.  I am still not 100% convinced that the valve & stem managed to drop into the cylinder and flip over to the point where it would have punched through the top of the piston, but I'm not saying that the mechanic is wrong either, as he was only going off of what he could see through the borescope.  Perhaps it's just the head of the valve sitting on top of the piston that's preventing it from being able to perform a complete revolution.  Only way I'll be able to find out is if I take the head off and see for myself.

 

Now hoping for the best, if I get to the point where I can pull the head off and see what happened and it ends up only being a small portion of the valve that is resting on the piston, then what would I realistically need to do to bring the engine back to life?  Would I need to send the head off to get machined or checked for any damage caused by the valve?  I know I would obviously need to put in a new valve, but what other things would I have to factor in?  I'm more of an electro-mechanical minded guy than an engine guy but I learn pretty quick!  The only time I've ever done anything internally to an engine was with my father about a good 25 years ago when he had to rebuild a Ford engine and I was mainly just the assistant getting tools, bolts, holding the flashlight and such.  On my own vehicles I've only ever really done more simple things, like changing out fuel injectors, swapping the transmission, replacing rotors, pads and calipers, changing spark plugs, etc.

[datzenmike]

The valve head may have snapped off. It would then be short enough to flip around. The top part of the stem, who knows.

[Spawn]

The valve head may have snapped off. It would then be short enough to flip around. The top part of the stem, who knows.

    

Ya, this I could believe happening more than the whole stem falling in and flipping over.  So I guess realistically the most probable occurrence would be that the valve head snapped off possibly with a portion of the stem itself?  If the valve head alone snapped off, would it be tall enough to punch through the top of the piston?  The only way I could imagine something going through the piston would be if the valve head and a short portion of the valve stem broke off and fell into the cylinder head.  I could see something like that being able to toss and turn around in the cylinder with the engine firing and then possibly just landing the right way to end up lodging itself into the top of the piston with the stem going through and the valve pointing up to the top of the cylinder head.  If that actually happened, what would be a good estimate on what would need to be repaired/replaced?  I've never taken apart the bottom end of an engine, so I'm not sure what exactly would be involved to replace the piston.

[datzenmike]

If the valve broke off the head is almost certainly toast. Piston is likely gouged and/or the valve is imbedded in it. There is a lot of forces involved here.

[Spawn]

If the valve broke off the head is almost certainly toast. Piston is likely gouged and/or the valve is imbedded in it. There is a lot of forces involved here.

So then no matter the case, I would have to replace the piston(s) and have the head machined at a minimum, in addition to replacing the valve(s)?  Rough idea what something like that would cost if I was tearing everything apart and putting it back together myself?  Obviously I'd have to send the head out to get the work done on it.  What's a typical machine shop charge to take care of a head?

[dr.feltersnatch]

assuming its rebuildable, i would guess $400+ for the head alone. thats not touching pistons.

[banzai510(hainz)]

haul truck home and fix at your leisure. Otherwise your going to be broke $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

we can guide you then otherwise in 2 months youll be off this site and gone as yourll dump the truck.

Just the way it is.

 

 

we seen people with nice cars , they park it in tow away zones or soemthing and dont have money for the impound and goes to the dump. Just the way Datsun guys are sometimes.