L16 issues

[Spawn]

Hi, I'm new to Ratsun (& owning a Datsun) and was wondering if I might be able to get some advice/opinions on what I should do.  I just picked up a 1972 620 that was in pretty decent shape.  All of the panels were quite good, with a tiny bit of bubbling in the paint here and there, a few spots of rust forming on the bumper and on the bottom of the passenger door (pretty sure it's because the window squeegee's are all brittle and missing chunks, so the water is just running down into the bottom of the door).  Everything appeared to be stock, drums all around, L16 engine that looks as though it was recently gone over (new alternator and quite clean engine - oil was fairly new as well, most likely a fresh oil change and maybe a power wash of the engine?) with the 4 speed transmission.  She started up just fine and ran fairly well with a bit of a sound coming from the engine which we (my buddy and I) thought was possibly either some valvetrain noise or an exhaust manifold sound, but it didn't seem to be anything serious.

 

Anyway, long story short, on the 450 mile drive home from picking the truck up, she decided to give up the ghost about 50 miles from the end.  Had it towed to a nearby shop who have finally had a chance to check it out.  After using a borescope, the technician said that he sees the valve has dropped into the cylinder, flipped over and managed to punch the stem through the piston (didn't bother asking which cylinder, as it probably doesn't really matter at this point).

 

I'm now at a bit of a crossroad, as I don't know whether I should just have the shop try and repair the damage (don't know the full extent - if the valve sticking out the top of the piston has caused damage to the cylinder head or not, but there also doesn't appear to be any metal particles in the oil either so that's at least some good news), or if I should try and swap out the motor and put something more current in there.  I've seen a few KA24DE swaps here in the forums and when doing a quick online search for swaps I also saw that there are some different motor mounts available to swap in some different types of engines (such as some Chevy engines, V6, LS V8's etc - although I'm a bit more of a purist and would stick with keeping the engine from Nissan).

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a money tree growing in my back yard, so at this point I think I'm going to have to try and keep the repair as inexpensive as possible, but I'm not sure how much tearing down the engine and repairing it will cost me, as the tech wasn't sure what access he has to parts for the engine due to it's age.  On the other hand I'd love to put in a KA24DE or similar in order to get a more up to date engine in it with better performance as well, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get my hands on one, or how much that would even run me, although I would imagine it would probably cost more than simply repairing the L16 in the truck right now.

 

So this is where I have come to in the hopes that the greater knowledge base on Ratsun would be able to help me out and maybe offer some words of advice, or even point me in the direction of finding parts to repair the L16, or find a KA to put in instead (although I believe if I swap to the KA I would need a new transmission too, and possibly a custom length driveshaft, and maybe even a differential for the rear end.... all adding up to more money).  I would greatly appreciate any input that you guys can offer, and if anyone happens to have an approximate cost breakdown of tearing down and L16 and repairing it or even a cost breakdown of swapping to a new engine (along with the other necessary parts of the running gear), I would love to hear that as well.

 

Anyway, I apologize for the long post as a first post/introduction and look forward to hearing some good replies (I hope!)

[datzenmike]

Your profile completed with a location will help you find someone with the parts. I would just replace the motor if at all possible. You have the L16, L18 and the L20B to choose from they will all bolt in.

 

Your L16 head is very likely toast. If you don't have money you should get this towed home quick before the bill adds up. Buy some tools and do this yourself. I think doing this will give you the experience... in time, to try a KA swap later.

[pwee4u2c]

Hey bro I have a good L16 engine for sale, its an easy swap...

[Spawn]

Your profile completed with a location will help you find someone with the parts. I would just replace the motor if at all possible. You have the L16, L18 and the L20B to choose from they will all bolt in.

 

Your L16 head is very likely toast. If you don't have money you should get this towed home quick before the bill adds up. Buy some tools and do this yourself. I think doing this will give you the experience... in time, to try a KA swap later.

 

The only reason I haven't put much detail in my profile yet is because I'm kinda in between places.  My home is actually near Edmonton, Alberta, but I'm currently working in upstate New York a little north of Albany living out of a hotel (hence the inability to do the work myself as I don't have a safe place to do it and I think the hotel would frown on me tearing it apart in their parking lot).

 

I'm really wanting to have something that's going to be fairly reliable, as my intention is to be able to use the truck as a daily driver, and when I'm finally finished working in New York to just pack everything into the bed, cover it up and drive all the way home (about 2400-2500 miles).

 

So are all three engines direct bolt ins/swaps with each other, no matter what transmission you've got?  I mean, if I put an L20 in it would mate up with my 4 speed without any problem?  What about the reverse of that?  Will a 5 speed or automatic mate up with any of the engines without modification or stuff?  I've always liked the look of the DOHC motors, but the SOHC ones run just fine I think (as long as you don't push a valve through a piston!).

[olderdat620]

Newbie state where u are from if from the west coast the L series are every well priced  and fairly cheap the L-16 18 and 20 are all great and fit right in

[Spawn]

Hey bro I have a good L16 engine for sale, its an easy swap...

 

Out of curiosity, how much do you want for the engine?  I suspect that it would probably cost me more to ship it to NY from CA though.

[pwee4u2c]

Yea man that's way to far, but I was only asking $150. Has the clutch and pressure plate still on it

[flatcat19]

Advice? Post pics. 

[ddrum]

I wouldn't recommend a KA swap yet, simply because your truck has drum brakes all around. Plus the L- series engines are very reliable and easy to work on :)

[Spawn]

Advice? Post pics. 

 

Have no pics of the engine as it's about 50 miles away from me in Cobleskill, New York at a repair shop there.  That was the closest facility to where it happened.  I have a few pics from the CL ad that I originally saw it on, and I think my buddy who was driving it took a couple of pics of it when we we picked it up and were driving it back (he's got a 620 as well that he's currently working on whenever he can but it's a non-runner at this point).

[Spawn]

I wouldn't recommend a KA swap yet, simply because your truck has drum brakes all around. Plus the L- series engines are very reliable and easy to work on :)

 

That was kinda my thinking as well.  In addition to the fact that the KA would probably cost a lot more to do at this point.  Do you happen to know if the L-series are all interchangeable with each other and the different transmissions?  I was thinking that it would be nice to put an L20 in it with a 5 speed behind it, or at least repair the L16 and at some point put a 5 speed behind it.  My friend was saying that during the 400 miles that he was driving it back for me it really felt like it needed an extra drive gear, as it was really being pushed in 4th when running around 60-70 mph.

[dr.feltersnatch]

at this point i would stick to l series. cheap, easy to swap in, and lots of knowledge and parts here.you can do this swap yourself in a weekend. and yes if just changing the motor it will bolt up to your trans. if you go with an l16 or l18 its a direct bolt in. l20 uses a bigger clutch so you will need the flywheel that goes with it and a new clutch set, but you get a bigger motor.

$150 for that l16 is a good deal. even after delivery and extras like new oil etc your still getting a good deal.

[Spawn]

Yea man that's way to far, but I was only asking $150. Has the clutch and pressure plate still on it

 

 

at this point i would stick to l series. cheap, easy to swap in, and lots of knowledge and parts here.you can do this swap yourself in a weekend. and yes if just changing the motor it will bolt up to your trans. if you go with an l16 or l18 its a direct bolt in. l20 uses a bigger clutch so you will need the flywheel that goes with it and a new clutch set, but you get a bigger motor.

$150 for that l16 is a good deal. even after delivery and extras like new oil etc your still getting a good deal.

 

dr.feltersnatch, I know that the engine would be a pretty good deal, but I was thinking that having to ship the engine across the country would be pretty pricey.  Does anyone happen to know how much it would cost to ship across country (CA to NY)?

 

pwee4u2c, if shipping is possible and not too cost prohibitive, what would you say the engine needs to have done to it, if anything, or would it be able to simply be dropped right in and it'll run for miles and miles?  Does it need to have anything checked out or rebuilt to make sure that it'll run for a long time to come?

 

I wish that I had photos of the engine that I have in the truck so that everyone could see the condition it is in (at least externally how clean and fresh looking it is although I know that this doesn't necessarily mean that the engine is good on the inside, as a steam clean/power wash can do wonders for the outward appearance of an engine bay).

[dr.feltersnatch]

I am rebuilding my motor and even though I havent added up a total yet I am over a grand at least. And I am not finished. So even if it costs say 200 bucks to ship $350 for a running motor delivered is a lot cheaper. You can always look local and try to find one but here on the left coast a running l series is usually around $300-$500 if you pick it up.

[jvb5577]

Almost made it home!  First things first.  Get the truck out of that shop.  I know some shops charge daily for holding a vehicle they are not working on.

 

As for engine replace.  I have sold two L series a L20b for $200 and a L16 for $150, both had good compression and ran great.  (I sold them cheap)  So I would grab that one for $150.  A rebuilt engine at a shop will cost $2K+ 

[pwee4u2c]

The engine is good just could probably use a head gasket, it has a new water pump,just swap the fuel pump and alternator and stuff like that from your motor...if you want pictures pm me your email

[banzai510(hainz)]

take it home first.

 

pull the head,L16 heads are cheap if not free (if in a area with alot of Datsuns)

 

 

 

olddatsuns.com

[ggzilla]

Take the head off and do what with it? managed to punch the stem through the piston

[Spawn]

Does anyone know how much the L16 weighs overall for shipping?  I'm still not 100% sure on what I should do with regards to my engine dilemma.

 

I'm not sure if trading out my known problem for another engine that is unknown (no compression numbers on it) is my best option.  It may well be the most cost effective, but as pwee4u2c has said, it could probably use a head gasket, and I have to find a place where the engine swap could be done as well as to change the head gasket.  I suppose that I might be able to do the head gasket with the engine out of the vehicle first, and then figure out how to get the engine removed and put the replacement in.

 

I really wish I had access to a garage and the necessary tools to be able to do the work myself, but living out of a hotel doesn't afford me that luxury.  I do have a co-worker here who has a garage, but he's not sure when we'd be able to get to doing the change.

[datzenmike]

255 pounds.

 

If it's a runner why does he say "it could probably use a head gasket". Either it works and doesn't need one or it doesn't work and does need one.

[flatcat19]

I have still yet to see any boobs or truck in this thread. 

 

 

I vote ban. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

pull head. if hole in piston then find a motor if not get a head.

Im sure soemone can send 2 L16 heads ,cheap feight.

I seen MoFOs say its a valve/hole in piston and find out just a lash pad fell off making it look like a piston went bad.

or bad valve adjustment.

 

get the timming chain wedge from amazon also

10mm socketadapter from head removal

 

tools, Torq wrench,breacker bar

[Spawn]

pull head. if hole in piston then find a motor if not get a head.

Im sure soemone can send 2 L16 heads ,cheap feight.

I seen MoFOs say its a valve/hole in piston and find out just a lash pad fell off making it look like a piston went bad.

or bad valve adjustment.

 

get the timming chain wedge from amazon also

10mm socketadapter from head removal

 

tools, Torq wrench,breacker bar

 

From what the service technician saw when he pulled the plugs and put a borescope to look in to each cylinder, he said that when he looked into one of the cylinders he saw the valve sitting in the cylinder upside down and saw that it appears to have punched the stem of the valve through the piston head.  This is what was preventing the crank from turning completely over as it was physically being stopped by the valve sticking out of the piston.

 

banzai510 - if the shop tech is right about the valve being through the piston, then I'm guessing that having a couple of heads won't really help (other than having more additional spare parts).  Unfortunately with me being an hour away from the shop and not being able to actually see the engine damage, I have to rely on the tech's observations.

 

I haven't heard back from the shop today, so I'll try them tomorrow and see if he's found out anything further, or at least been able to price out some repairs or parts (or both).  I guess if worse came to worse and I got the engine from pwee4u2c that needs a head gasket replacement (he said that it was leaking oil from the head when the engine was pulled), I would probably just put on a new head gasket and then swap out the engine with the failed one, hang on to the failed engine so that I have some spare parts.  The only thing that concerns me is that other than knowing about the head gasket I guess I'd be taking my chances on the remainder of the engine (and keeping my fingers crossed that everything else on it is solid and won't fail soon after swapping it out).

 

It would definitely be nicer if I could find a replacement engine that was in good shape locally but I don't think that there are too many 620's in and around this area.  Trying to do repairs on a very tight budget really sucks!!

[ggzilla]

And having a shop do it is even worse.

 

Any L16 will work, even if from a 521 or from a 510. Or an L18 from a 610 or 710.

[Spawn]

And having a shop do it is even worse.

 

Any L16 will work, even if from a 521 or from a 510. Or an L18 from a 610 or 710.

 

Ya, I understand the aspect of having a shop do it, but unfortunately I'm kind of between a rock and a hard place with regards to being able to do the work myself as I don't have any tools or workspace to be able to do it.  I've gotta check with my buddy if I can somehow squeeze into his garage for maybe a weekend to pull the one motor and put the replacement in, but I'm not sure how easy it will be to convince him to get some space.

 

Ya, Ideally I would like to upgrade to an engine with a bit more power, or even stick with the L16 and put a 5 speed behind it to be able to cruise on the highways, rather than having the engine scream along on the highway.  I just haven't really come across any replacement engines up in this neck of the woods.

 

Anybody happen to be near Albany, NY that has an L16 or L18 available, oh and maybe a 5 speed transmission also?  :confused: