My Rescue 74 620 L16 4-spd Project Build

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Thought I was done welding.  Took other fender off just to check (LHS) and found the cowl completely rotted away from the side kick panel.  So some nasty internal welding.  Am going to bolt on a "inspection panel" for the end side of the cowl.  Will let me seal properly.  Might even consider "inspection paneling"  the RHS side too while the fenders are off.  I'm way over 5# of MIG wire in the cab.  Frame and supports are PERFECT and someone put another bed on this truck.  If the cab was any worse, it would warrant complete replacement but I'm a Welding Fool and  enjoy the craft.  Great project to develop my MIG skills.  (I'm an accomplished oxy-acetylene auto body welder and this is the first major welding project I've used MIG on.  Its a good think I like to push wire...

 

Still waiting on parts promised by DatQuick...  Guy is killing me.  Promises parts and then goes silent for weeks/months.  I've been waiting since April.  But he isn't the only one.  In fact, just about every person that has offered to sell me parts goes silent/disappears when I commit and say I want to buy them, how much, and where do I send the money.  I've never seen anything like this.  I'm wondering if my "Cardinal Grammeter" is confusing people.  You all know it has NOTHING to do with Religion, Right?  You know where "Cardinal Grammeter" comes from?  Right?

 

Still, I'm trying...

[abbylind]

Turboencabulator.....

[Cardinal Grammeter]

You get an A, My Son (!) ( arf arf this is humor, right?)

 

For another belly laugh, check out Top Gear rolling the Reliant Robin !!!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8

[Cardinal Grammeter]

STATUS UPDATE  10-10-14:

 

COWL/KICK PANEL RUST SEPARATION:  Finished but haven't made the "inspection plate" yet.

 

CORE SUPPORT:  Painted - Done Finally!  This is the first area that I've gotten to paint! 

 

HEALIGHT ASSEMBLIES:  Painted and dealing with 2 misplaced adjusting screws.  The buckets need some weld repair on the single tabs (not the wide ones.)  Painted the brackets with Rustoleum Self Etching and then Semi-Gloass Black (I hope the OE was Black???  If it isn't, I can still change the color.)  I painted the buckets with Rustoleum Zinc Cold Galvanizing.  NOTE:  This paint CANNOT be topcoated w/any Rustoleum paint.  CANNOT use oil base (alkyd).  CAN use Latex or true 100% Acrylic (water base.)  The problem is that as the zinc sacrifices, it produces a "soap" on the surface that will pop off paint.  I don't know why Latex and Acrylic don't pop off though.

 

NEXT TO DO:  Found 2 more patches of perforation in the Cowl.  Going to "glue" metal plates over them using SikaFlex 1a w/o primer (primer is a "super glue" and continued exposure to water causes it to degrade.)

 

SHORT TERM STRATEGY:

 

Get the Turn Signals working - then paint the floor.  Have to get the valence on so I can connect the combination lights and check out the turn signals.  I am concerned that the turn signal switch will have to be removed and disassembled to polish contacts since I HAD to do that with the Wipers AND Horn.  No looking forward to that job.

 

PARTS ACQUISITION: 

 

Becoming critical.  People not sending stuff, refusing to return emails, phone calls, very frustrating.  Not panicking yet since I'll be in Carson City NV for 3 weeks beginning of November.  I plan to hit the junk yards big time.  There are legendary junk yards in CA too.  Maybe I should hold up on trying to find stuff from forums/eBays until I strike out in NV.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

More Pics Added:

 

31 more to Part 2 - Welding

 

and a new Sub Directory:  Part 3 - Assembly

 

Changed the order of pics to Oldest First

 

Here is the Photobucket link.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Update:  10-28-2014

 

Have the exterior painting done.  Hurried to last minute since I won't be able to work on project for the next 3 weeks due to other stuff that needs to get done.  Then the weather will be cold and more difficult to paint in.

 

For what its worth, Rustoleum Sunrise Red and Krylon Banner Red are very, very close matches for this paint.  Hustler Red PPG 524 is NOT a match.  Don't know about 525 Pagoda Red.  Also US Postal Red is a close match.  They basically painted it "very" red.

 

But it makes me wonder because the bed is red and does not appear to be color changed.  The cab was definitely blue.  Maybe they saw the red bed and decided to change the cab color???

 

Who knows.

 

But it seems to look like some red Datsun pics I've seen.

 

Added 25 more pics to Part 3 - Assembly.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

I'm in Carson City NV now thinking I'd find oodles of 620's in the bone yards.

 

Yeah. 

 

Right.

 

They just about laugh at me over the phone when I call them.

 

Did find a local tailgate with limited defects.  Of course a nice piece to find, but I don't need it.  I need the pieces to get mine road worthy and inspectable.

 

Some stories:

 

Found a local guy with a 620 and Ford V6 in it and he told me of some of the places that were 620 sources.  One fellow lived near the Lowes and it turns out he moved and was the guy I got the tailgate from (!)    Small world.  Also a tuner in Mound House (home of the Moonlight Bunny Ranch which has a bar I'm trying to stay out of....) but it appears he moved to Reno.  And a couple guys on this site that are from Fallon and build 620 drag trucks.  Haven't found them yet...

 

Found two other sources for 620's and its the same old - all eager to begin with and then... silence...

[Charlie69]

I was in Elko, Carlin, and Battle Mountain from May 2011 to December 2012 and I found a few 620s, a 521, a 3 411s and bought 3 720s and 1 hardbody for parts.

 

There is a man around the South Reno area that had a 620. a 411, and a hardbody king cab cheap.  He advertises on Craigslist.  He has several storage lots in the area.  Unfortunately when I moved back to AZ I lost his name and number.  The Datsun Parts were in an enclosed trailer and my personal belongings were in the bed of my 86 720 King Cab.

 

You know I have my priorities right, I did not loose one Datsun part on the trip home. LOL

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Hey Charlie69,

 

I put a "Datsun 620 Parts" ad in the Reno CL.  Then I have my parts list and the fact that I'm Wanting rather than Selling.  I hope no one flags me.

 

It is a real drag searching all the CL regions on the West Coast.  I guess it really doesn't matter that I'm in Carson City since anything more than a 2 hour drive should be shipped.  However if someone had a 74 parting out, I'd drive a pretty good bit to get all my stuff.

 

There are a couple sources I have to keep bugging to see if they come through.

 

Time will tell I guess,

Tom

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Well I'm back from Carson City NV where I was for 3 weeks and found none of the parts I was looking for.

 

But a little serendipity...

 

I found a guy that had a decent tailgate 10 minutes away!

 

I also talked to a guy that was selling a 620 with a Ford V6 in it.  He knew a lot of the "620 people" area (not many) and told me what he knew.  One guy, he said, had a lot of parts and lived minutes away from me near the Lowes.   So I check it out and found nothing.

 

Then I discover the guy with the tailgate (he was advertising 521 stuff on CL) was that guy!  He had subsequently moved and back when he was living near the Lowes, he sold that Ford powered 620.

 

Small world, huh?

 

Anyhow, I build this incredibly reinforced box to ship the tailgate back with a lot of other body work stuff I had in NV.  Photobucket pics to follow...

 

The tailgate weighed 34# by the package was 72# when I shipped it.  (That really torqued me off since going from 70 to 71# costs $10.  But what is interesting is that the shipping cost per pound is basically a straight line with FedEx except around 70# - you get a real great low incremental rate for 70# and just below, but just above, you get a penalty.  By the time you get to 80#, you're back on the straight line rate curve. 

[Charlie69]

Shipping cost suck!  Look up Gene Knight on here and PM him he has some 620 parts he might be willing to sell here in the SW Phoenix area.  I sold him al the 620 stuff I had including a 77 king cab & a 78 king cab bed and chassis.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Thanks for the Phoenix lead (!)

 

So far some success (awesome!)

 

The local guy, 10min from me, we finally got together and I scored:

• Tire Lift (but no crank - can't find it - he may find it...)
• License Plate Light w/bracket
• Spare tire/wheel (yet another dry rotted tire with great tread depth... Arghhh... this is killing me to see a tire wasted from non-use...)

And currently awaiting shipments:

• Hood Latch
• Hood Hinge Bolts
• Engine Fuel Line
• Air Cleaner V-brack

And located and should be purchasing:

• Hood Prop Rod
• Hood Trim (!)
• ...???

And of course I shipped a decent tailgate I found in NV.

 

I get a kick of getting the proper parts that were missing and I've never seen before.  I guess my Collector Genes are still functioning although I've sworn off collecting at this advanced gate (62.)

 

Onward!

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Just uploaded my "Epic" Tailgate package from NV pics - new Part 4.  (click link in my Signature)

 

Tailgate was 34# but package ended up 72#  (and it was not fully on the scale at FedEx so it was probably even more than that!)

 

Shipping was $64 from 1 to 51# since based on Volume.  So I had to fill the package up with everything I could get my hands on that I needed back in PA.

[Charlie69]

62 is young !  Hell you have at least another 30 years.  You should be able to hoard quite a few parts by then.  Collecting is better known as hoarding when it comes to datsuns.  LOL

[abbylind]

In case someone needs an update on the Turboencabulator concept..

 

[denmarkboy]

In case someone needs an update on the Turboencabulator concept..

 

 

 

 I wanna party with that dude !!    :rofl:

[Hrvat9]

Wow I love your weld work! That cab has/had some nasty cancer! Wish I could weld that good...:( how do you bent/sculpt the metal to such perfect shapes ?

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Thanks for the welding compliment.

 

Getting good comes from hours and hours and hours of welding.  It starts ugly and evolves from there. 

 

Back in the 70's I put 137 hours of welding into a 74 B210 4-dr 1400.  EVERY door corner was rotted - and there are 3 corners on the rear doors.  Inner fenders, fender bottoms, dog legs, rockers.  Just about everything but I don't think the floor was bad.  I learned most of my advanced skills on that car.  I subsequently moved to FL (live in PA) for a job and left the car with my dad.  Eventually the frame collapsed at the firewall and that was the end of that car.  It had one of the most precise 4-spd shifters I ever encountered and it was fun to drive.  I took it from Pittsburgh to NJ and it got 44 mpg on the PA Turnpike.  And that was a primitive OHV engine - and the big one too boot.  Also had a 72 510 which was awesome.  Handling was superb but it didn't get the mpg.  Also painted both of them.

 

I'm 62 and started welding up Studebakers when I was 20 and during the last month I learned something so ridiculously simple, it really pissed me off!

 

The key to welding a good patch is to have as perfectly fit butt weld joint as possible.  Then you use the minimum amount of filler rod, heat, and time even if you gas or MIG.

 

The way I've done this for decades was to cut out the rot, cut a template from a thin cardboard pizza box, transfer onto new metal, cut in bandsaw and then weld it in.

 

The problem with this is that you have 2 transfers:  Hole to Paper, then Paper to Patch.

 

Well on TV I saw a reality show where they were welding up all kinds of floor and rocker rot.  And guess how they did it?

 

First, it was a non-critical patch, so they started by cutting the patch first, then transferring it to the floor and then cutting out the floor.

 

This would have speeded up over half my patches if I did that.  On some, however, cutting the rot out is a precision effort so you have to start that way.

 

As far as bending the patches up, I do most of my work in a large Chinese vise - I think it has about 10" jaws on it.

 

Sometimes you have to heat the metal with a torch to orange heat so you can get it to bend the way you want.  These are tight compound bends where the metal has to be substantially stretched or shrunk to be smooth.

 

The cab corners were done with one of those "100 pieces of wire" profile capturing tools - they only cost a few bucks but are incredibly useful when bending up patches.

 

That tool got me the rocker contour, but I had a problem:  I wanted a 100% metal cab corner - I didn't want a bondo corner which eventually would chip and break off.  So I made a forming die based on that profile out of 1/4" plate.  I laid the patch on what would be the vertical back of the corner and then bent about 1/4" along the rocker profile.  That put the weld joint 1/4" from the actual corner.  It worked out very nicely on both sides.

 

As far as MIG welding, you have to get close enough to see the arc on the tip of the wire.  When you get your visor shade right and "cheater" lens (reading glasses) if required since you need to be close to see this, only then will your welds improve.

 

Once I got to that level, then welding up 1/4" gaps in sheet metal was not a problem.  Yes the welds were thick, but they were structurally sound and not a problem when doing floors.

 

I also came up with the following strategy:  Most rot comes from spot weld flanges.  When repairing them, you can make the joint dramatically less rust prone by eliminating the flanges entirely and simply weld in a simple angle.

 

And regarding butt welds.  Although they are the best and do not provide a lap joint where water wicks between the sheets, they are very time consuming due to fitting the patch.  If you do lap welds, they are fast, but they really want to hold water and rust.

 

So here is the strategy:  Lap weld using sheet 2 gauge #'s thicker.  If patching 18ga (.048), use 16ga (.062) and let it rust.  What happens is that the old, thinner metal rots away to the weld joint, falls off, and leaves a butt weld.  You can lap over spot weld flanges and just let them rot and fall off leaving a nice welded patch.

 

It may not look pretty but in the end, you have a fast and robust weld repair.  But the trick is to patch with thicker metal - otherwise, both will rot away at the same time.

 

Right now the project is bogged down by no room, cold weather, and well.... cold weather!

 

I am now getting some desperately needed parts from a couple Ratsun members and a local guy maybe 10 minutes from my home!   Its funny (sort of,) for months I was trying to find parts and just couldn't get anywhere.  Now 3 people "came out of nowhere" and I'm on my way.

[Hrvat9]

Thanks for the welding compliment.

 

Getting good comes from hours and hours and hours of welding. It starts ugly and evolves from there.

 

 

Back in the 70's I put 137 hours of welding into a 74 B210 4-dr 1400. EVERY door corner was rotted - and there are 3 corners on the rear doors. Inner fenders, fender bottoms, dog legs, rockers. Just about everything but I don't think the floor was bad. I learned most of my advanced skills on that car. I subsequently moved to FL (live in PA) for a job and left the car with my dad. Eventually the frame collapsed at the firewall and that was the end of that car. It had one of the most precise 4-spd shifters I ever encountered and it was fun to drive. I took it from Pittsburgh to NJ and it got 44 mpg on the PA Turnpike. And that was a primitive OHV engine - and the big one too boot. Also had a 72 510 which was awesome. Handling was superb but it didn't get the mpg. Also painted both of them.

I'm 62 and started welding up Studebakers when I was 20 and during the last month I learned something so ridiculously simple, it really pissed me off!

 

The key to welding a good patch is to have as perfectly fit butt weld joint as possible. Then you use the minimum amount of filler rod, heat, and time even if you gas or MIG.

The way I've done this for decades was to cut out the rot, cut a template from a thin cardboard pizza box, transfer onto new metal, cut in bandsaw and then weld it in.

The problem with this is that you have 2 transfers: Hole to Paper, then Paper to Patch.

Well on TV I saw a reality show where they were welding up all kinds of floor and rocker rot. And guess how they did it?

First, it was a non-critical patch, so they started by cutting the patch first, then transferring it to the floor and then cutting out the floor.

This would have speeded up over half my patches if I did that. On some, however, cutting the rot out is a precision effort so you have to start that way.

As far as bending the patches up, I do most of my work in a large Chinese vise - I think it has about 10" jaws on it.

 

Sometimes you have to heat the metal with a torch to orange heat so you can get it to bend the way you want. These are tight compound bends where the metal has to be substantially stretched or shrunk to be smooth.

 

The cab corners were done with one of those "100 pieces of wire" profile capturing tools - they only cost a few bucks but are incredibly useful when bending up patches.

 

That tool got me the rocker contour, but I had a problem: I wanted a 100% metal cab corner - I didn't want a bondo corner which eventually would chip and break off. So I made a forming die based on that profile out of 1/4" plate. I laid the patch on what would be the vertical back of the corner and then bent about 1/4" along the rocker profile. That put the weld joint 1/4" from the actual corner. It worked out very nicely on both sides.

 

As far as MIG welding, you have to get close enough to see the arc on the tip of the wire. When you get your visor shade right and "cheater" lens (reading glasses) if required since you need to be close to see this, only then will your welds improve.

 

Once I got to that level, then welding up 1/4" gaps in sheet metal was not a problem. Yes the welds were thick, but they were structurally sound and not a problem when doing floors.

 

I also came up with the following strategy: Most rot comes from spot weld flanges. When repairing them, you can make the joint dramatically less rust prone by eliminating the flanges entirely and simply weld in a simple angle.

 

And regarding butt welds. Although they are the best and do not provide a lap joint where water wicks between the sheets, they are very time consuming due to fitting the patch. If you do lap welds, they are fast, but they really want to hold water and rust.

 

So here is the strategy: Lap weld using sheet 2 gauge #'s thicker. If patching 18ga (.048), use 16ga (.062) and let it rust. What happens is that the old, thinner metal rots away to the weld joint, falls off, and leaves a butt weld. You can lap over spot weld flanges and just let them rot and fall off leaving a nice welded patch.

 

It may not look pretty but in the end, you have a fast and robust weld repair. But the trick is to patch with thicker metal - otherwise, both will rot away at the same time.

 

Right now the project is bogged down by no room, cold weather, and well.... cold weather!

 

I am now getting some desperately needed parts from a couple Ratsun members and a local guy maybe 10 minutes from my home! Its funny (sort of,) for months I was trying to find parts and just couldn't get anywhere. Now 3 people "came out of nowhere" and I'm on my way.

Thanks for sharing ! Always good to ask :) I'm currently gutting my cab and finding some rust that is going to be a challenge to repair...mind you what I seen in your oics I thought was already at stage "too late" haha , you can imagine what little rust I think is a challenge

[Cardinal Grammeter]

The only way to kill rust is WELD.

 

Troll Craigslist for a cheap 110v MIG welder w/CO2 and .023 steel or .023 silicon bronze (less than 1/2 the heat and still pretty strong - not for critical structural but just about everything else - Detroit is using it on body work.)

 

The cost of welding is your time.  And it is a mixed blessing - the bigger the job is, the better you'll learn how to weld.  Look at the project as Welding School and not a "For Profit" repair.

 

And then you might get like me and find that welding is addictive and end up binge welding like a Netflix Series you can't stop watching.

 

Or you will hate it because it sucks (!)  haha

 

Remember, the crappiest weld is better than pop rivets or sheet metal screws although I do have a soft spot for Self Drilling Self Tapping Washer Head Screws.  You can really lay patches crazy fast with them - they're infinitely better than poprivets because among many things, they pull the two pieces together which PR don't.

 

And if you get the idea of spraying 93% zinc cold galvanizing as primer followed by top coat - don't do it!  Read up on the internet.  You can only do it with a pure acrylic top coat - in other words although Rustoleum makes a great ZCG, they DO NOT make a suitable top coat paint!  The issue is that as the zinc sacrifices, it will produce a "soap" on the surface and pop off the paint.  I forget why acrylic works.  I do seem to remember that the acrylic actually slows the sacrificing.

 

Oh, I wouldn't buy a Harbor Freight welder unless I was getting it for next to nothing.  The Italian build MIGs are OK.  I ahve an Astro Power MIG and it works just fine.  Found it on CL for $140 w/cart and bottle.  ,And if you are thinking of spending $400 or more on a Lincoln from HD or Lowes, just get the Miller 135 (I think) that has AutoSet feature.  They can be had just over $500.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

I never thought it would come to this....

 

trying to find all the weird emissions stuff they stripped off - so that this 620 looks unmolested.  And this is NOT a resto!

 

And oh how I HATE EMISSIONS CRAP!

 

Why oh Why couldn't this have been a 73???

[Hrvat9]

The only way to kill rust is WELD.

 

Troll Craigslist for a cheap 110v MIG welder w/CO2 and .023 steel or .023 silicon bronze (less than 1/2 the heat and still pretty strong - not for critical structural but just about everything else - Detroit is using it on body work.)

 

The cost of welding is your time. And it is a mixed blessing - the bigger the job is, the better you'll learn how to weld. Look at the project as Welding School and not a "For Profit" repair.

 

And then you might get like me and find that welding is addictive and end up binge welding like a Netflix Series you can't stop watching.

 

Or you will hate it because it sucks (!) haha

 

Remember, the crappiest weld is better than pop rivets or sheet metal screws although I do have a soft spot for Self Drilling Self Tapping Washer Head Screws. You can really lay patches crazy fast with them - they're infinitely better than poprivets because among many things, they pull the two pieces together which PR don't.

 

And if you get the idea of spraying 93% zinc cold galvanizing as primer followed by top coat - don't do it! Read up on the internet. You can only do it with a pure acrylic top coat - in other words although Rustoleum makes a great ZCG, they DO NOT make a suitable top coat paint! The issue is that as the zinc sacrifices, it will produce a "soap" on the surface and pop off the paint. I forget why acrylic works. I do seem to remember that the acrylic actually slows the sacrificing.

 

Oh, I wouldn't buy a Harbor Freight welder unless I was getting it for next to nothing. The Italian build MIGs are OK. I ahve an Astro Power MIG and it works just fine. Found it on CL for $140 w/cart and bottle. ,And if you are thinking of spending $400 or more on a Lincoln from HD or Lowes, just get the Miller 135 (I think) that has AutoSet feature. They can be had just over $500.

This is what I have at my disposal

[Cardinal Grammeter]

More than enough to "get-r-done!"

 

The power supply is most likely Italian and perhaps more of it - cheaper MIGs usually end up being made in Italy - by the same company.

 

Without a bottle, you can run flux core MIG wire.  With CO2, you can run solid wire.  (I'm assuming you have everything that came with it which should include a regulator and the connecting tubing.)

 

I have run Argon, but it is very expensive and frankly I don't like the welds it makes - they seem to lack penetration compared to CO2.  I've also heard that CO2 works better on rusty metal.

 

I have absolutely no complaints running CO2 and recommend it.

 

Get a decent auto-darkening helmet.  I would not recommend the Harbor Freight ones.  There are cheap Chinese ones with 4-sensors that are probably better and then there are reasonably priced quality ones and then premium stuff by companies like Jackson.

 

They come 2 ways:  analog and digital controls.  The digital require you to push buttons usually on the inside of the helmet at the lens assembly.  I don't like that.  What I do like is analog where you have an external dial on the helmet where you can adjust filter darkness as you are welding - I think that is a desirable feature.  Search the internet for mid and top tier helmets.  Otherwise, I'd get the 4-sensor.  A Pittsburgh welding shop was selling a 4-sensor for something like $100.  I don't remember the brand but it was Chinese.  They were a big shop and I would tend to trust what they were selling even if Chinese.

 

Remember what you want to see is the arc on the tip of the wire as you weld.  People usually don't use a dark enough filter to actually see this.  But when you do see it, then you can really control what is going on.  If you need reading glasses, get "cheater" lenses for your helmet - or wear reading glasses under the helmet.  You have to be close enough to see the arc too.

 

And just weld until the cows come home. 

 

As far as distortion goes, remember that where you weld, the weld will be in tension and trying to "pull in" surrounding metal.  The more filler you use, the more the distortion.  The more heat you use, the more distortion.  The bigger the wire, the more distortion.

 

To minimize distortion, tack weld the patch in first - one every 1-2 inches.  Start in the center and work your way to the ends - if you do the ends first, then when you do the center the metal will move around excessively since the ends are constrained.  Make short passes randomly scattered over the joint so you don't spend more time in any one place.

 

If you put the hours in, you will figure all kinds of things out!

[cr83]

i run argon co2 mix in mine, works excellent

[Cardinal Grammeter]

I ran the mix too.  But CO2 is way cheaper.  I don't see any downside on CO2 other than it may be possible to freeze up the regulator if you are flowing a lot (they have heated regulators for CO2!)

 

AND if you have the CO2, you can carbonate your own beverages (!)  HaHa