My Rescue 74 620 L16 4-spd Project Build

[Cardinal Grammeter]

And So It Begins....

 

Bot this 1.5 hours away in OH (I'm about 45 min East of Pittsburgh PA) mostly on lack of rust.

 

I've gotten the engine running (sort of) but I swear every other operating thing is FUBAR unfortunately.

 

Here are some pics:  http://s1193.photobucket.com/user/Cardinal_Grammeter/library/Datsun620

 

 

One thing, wow will that faded red paint buff out awesome!

[ggzilla]

Congrats. Buying for no rust is what I do. The other things can be fixed.

 

Are you going to restore it to the original L18?

[mikeanike99]

Welcome! I would say put an l20b in it but l18 is more original

[ggzilla]

Use the photobucket "Direct link"

 

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Engine Starts Rapping BIG TIME and there is Gasoline in the Oil BIG TIME:  :frantics:

 

I don't know if you found some of my other posts, but there has been a lot of butchering done to this poor Datsun.

 

A friend sold it to me and I asked him what it would take to get it on the road.  He said master and clutch cylinders (he had new ones), a battery, and probably check out the brakes because it was sitting for a long time.

 

I am all jammed up with space and time obligations and simply cannot get involved in any kind of project.  I would love to have one of these little Datsuns so I thought I would take a chance on it.  I really like them!

 

When I got it home, I found a cobbled up 1-bbl from some Brand-X sitting cockeyed on the manifold with a plywood adapter - there are photos on Bucket.  I won't get into details.

 

So I thought I'd try and see if it would start.  Got the engine to spin up on ether and it sounded good.  Great.  Things are so bad.

 

Now with the battery installed, I found the lights and headlights worked, but the following did not:

• Alternator/Regulator (no charge)
• Turn signals
• Wipers (dead)
• Heater Motor (dead but dims lights when turned on)

So that really put a damper on what I'm facing and I'm getting pretty mad at my friend for saying it was in such good shape.

 

So I put some gas in the tank and try to get it running on the carb.

 

I discovered an excellent way to clean plugs is in an ultrasonic cleaner and when I did that, the engine for the first time started and was running on all cylinders.

 

Previously to the cleaning, it was difficult to give any throttle to it - it would sputter/back fire and die.  But it was fouled plugs and old gas.

 

But now it seems like its working properly and I give it a little rev (remember, I'm running things from under the hood, not sitting in the driver's seat) and in a second.... Rap Rap Rap....

 

I shut it down and check the oil and start it again.  Its raps again and I shut it down quickly.  Maybe 5-10 seconds rapping to this point.

 

What happened?

 

So I look at the oil more carefully and much to my disgust, its basically gasoline.

 

So I changed the oil to Rotella T 15-40 and a PH-8A Fram filter, and with the coil wire off, crank it to produce some oil pressure.  I must have cranked for 30 seconds and the oil light did not go out.

 

So I'm thinking maybe its just not making enough cranking oil pressure to throw the idiot light.  So I start it up and as soon as it fires, it raps and the oil light does not go out!

 

I don't think it has oil pressure.

 

So basically, I FUBARed the engine.  I don't know if the crank survived.  And I realize this engine is easy to get to from the bottom.

 

And this is a level of effort I would not under any circumstances sign up for.  In the condition this truck is in, I would not take it for free, unfortunately.

 

And you know, still, it got even worse:

 

I'm looking at the side of the engine and realize they bypassed the heater core.  And that is not so bar, but THE HEATER CORE IS MISSING.

 

I'm done - Project Over.

 

I'll buff it out because it will be pretty awesome looking and maybe try to put the correct carb on it. But I'm going to have to sell it and try to get what I have in it.

 

I came with 3 extra grilles, a pair of 240Z tail lights, and 2 stock air cleaners.  And LIMCO paint:  a gallon of Baltic Blue, reducer, and hardener.

 

I paid $1500 for it and have about $200 in hauling it back and about $100 for the title work.  I don't know if its worth $1800, but that is what I want for it.

 

And I just went to the dentist today and needed a $900 cap.

 

Not a good day.

[mikeanike99]

Sorry man that really sucks I hope you get what you're asking

[Cardinal Grammeter]

More Inspections - Found Heater and Wiper Layout Impressively Simple: 

 

A minor victory:

 

Its 3:52 AM here and while a Night Owl, I usually have no interest crawling around cars this time of the night, but I was curious to see if the wiper motor was actually there - maybe they threw that out too I thought.

 

And so it is there.

 

But then I looked at the heater unit and to my surprise, I could see the core.  Usually when there are two holes in the firewall, the core tubes stick through those holes.  Turns out (as you all know of course) that the hoses go through the firewall to the heater core and valve.

 

However all the control cables were just hanging there with no clips to hold the them - so they don't work.  Did someone replace the heater unit?  Was it bypassed by some previous owner? 

_______________

 

Then I saw the 4 clips that allow the front panel to come off for cleanout.

 

And I saw what was keeping the fan from working:  someone dropped an 1.5" long screw into the squirrel cage.

 

So I removed it and now the fan works.

 

Now considering that a heater core in most modern cars going bad can literally total them, learning of this simple system in the 620 really makes me like these trucks even more.  And the fact that one little crossmember and you can drop the pan....

_______________

 

I must at least check the engine with proper oil pressure since it is still possible the rapping will go away if I get some.  What is very strange is that the onset of rapping was instant which could mean something else might be making the noise.  But back to getting oil pressure.

 

I suspect the loss in oil pressure is due to the pump being full of gasoline - so even though I changed the oil, the pump may need to be primed.

 

It would be nice to drive the pump with a drill to primp the system proper, however from the little time I spent on the shop manual, it looks like if you pull the distributor, the gear does not come with it. 

 

So I'm thinking I need some way to force the oil "over the hump" from the pickup to the pump.  The easiest way may be to simply over fill the crankcase to get the oil level higher than the hump and there will be gravity feed on the oil pushing it to the pump.

 

There could be other issues like the pickup is clogged or has fallen off the block if it is a press fit - I don't know if it bolts on.  It might tell a lot to remove the pump and draw oil with vacuum from the block port - that would verify the pickup.

_________________

 

I must be insane.  I'm 61 years old and just seeing the simplicity of that heater system, I figure I've just "profited over 8 man hours" which could be invested in pulling the pan and installing new bearings if it looks like the knock will not go away w/proper oil pressure.  I have so very little time actually knocking, I don't think the crank could be hurt.  If I wiped a bearing, it should be simple fix.  Even if I spun one, the limited time would probably also suggest things may not be so bad.

 

But whatever I do, I have to "hit it hard" and get this done and out the door.

 

I guess at some point, I'll have to go to sleep tonight...

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Engine Rapping Fixed - was Lash Cap!  :thumbup:

 

I was surprised (and my piston head friends) that a bearing would start pounding instantly.

 

So now I'm think maybe a valve stuck or a bolt was laying in the intake and got sucked into a cylinder.

 

So what do I find?  A lash cap (or whatever they're call) popped off a valve retainer resulting in massive valve clearance and big nasty rapping noise.

 

Of course the question is how did it come off?  I know I was dealing with massively gasoline diluted oil which might have had something to do with it.

 

Anyhow, I haven't started it because I left the key on and the battery was down to 2v so I'm charging it at 4amp rate.

 

But I am confident the engine is A-OK, and although there is still a lot that needs work, I'm full on Get-R-Done.

[ggzilla]

massively gasoline diluted oil is usually caused by an internal leak of the fuel pump. Maybe remove and inspect it?

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Fuel Pump Likely Causing Oil Dillution:

 

Definitely YES about the fuel pump.

 

The IRONY of all this is that the Lash Cap caused me to inspect the oil and discover the dilution :thumbup:

 

That actually may have truly saved the engine!

 

I do plan to test the pump.  I'll put 5 psi air pressure on the outlet and submerse in water.  If it is bleeding into the crankcase, maybe I'll see some bubbles.

 

Also, I wonder how the lash cap came off?  Sticky valves from sitting???

[datzenmike]

You have three other threads going about this truck? The plywood gasket, nothing works on it and specifications for the bed. Now two have mentioned the lash caps. Answers will be at cross purposes if one member answering doesn't know about the other member's suggestions... and it gets very confused.

 

If this is going to be your project thread mention your up dates and ask all your questions here.

 

If you want I can merge the other topics into this one so you have them all in one place. A year from now you won't have to look all over the forum for them.

[DanielC]

Putting pressure on the outlet of the fuel pump may not show if the fuel pump diaphragm leaks.  There is a check valve on the outlet side, that prevents gas from going back to the diaphragm chamber, from the outlet side of the pump.  Putting pressure there, just causes the valve to seat.

 

Get two short pieces of fuel line.  Plug one, put that on the outlet side of the pump.  Put the second hose on the inlet side of the pump,a nd hold the other end of the hose in a cup, with gasoline, and pump the fuel pump lever.  The fuel pump should pressurise itself.  And then look past the pump lever into the lower part of the body of the fuel pump, for fuel leakage.

 

The fuel pump is designed to pump about 3 to 5 psi.  If you apply high pressure air to either port of the fuel pump, there is a pretty good chance, that if the diaphragm was good, it will not be after that.

 

The lash cap could have come loose from a sticky valve.  A valve being way out of adjustment could also cause the lash cap to "escape".

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Fuel Pump Test:

 

Yes, good point about the fuel pump test.  Definitely pressurizing the outlet would not pressurize the chamber.

 

However, pressurizing the inlet might work - it should go past the inlet check valve and get the pressure where it is needed.

 

There should be a way to check with air pressure.

 

I would use a Miti-Vac tools to do the pressurization.

 

______________________

 

Tip about fuel pumps.  Carter never made fuel pumps that were damaged by alcohol.  So if you are ever in doubt...

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Working on the BRAKES:

• Drums:  got them all off the hubs - they are in near perfect condition but one had 2 radial cracks from the hub bore to 2 wheel stud holes.  Looks like rust had started pushing the drum off the hub and the drum cracked because it is so thick (modern drums are never that thick anymore.)
• Shoes look like they were recently replaced
• Springs:  some are new - again someone went through the brakes
• Bleeders:  all broke free nicely
• Master cylinder:  installed and bled - need caps though, rubber is rotten
• Bled system

Pedal is pretty decent.  (did not adjust brakes - I think they were close)

 

Now hopefully no wheel cylinders will leak.

 

I was totally amazed to see aluminum wheel cylinders.

 

Emergency brake bell-crank had me talking to myself until I realized how it worked!  What a clever design.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Working on the CLUTCH HYDRAULICS - Cast Iron Slave Cylinder FROZEN: 

 

Put the new Master Cylinder on and proceeded to bleed.

 

As soon as I put fluid in the MC, I could see bubbles coming from the reservoir port.  So I decided not to bleed the MC.

 

I put a Brake Bleeding Cup on the Slave Cylinder bleeder and proceeded to run at least 4 fillups through the system.  What came out was like a good dark beer!

 

And of course NO PEDAL.

 

Since I didn't have anyone to help me, I tried to figure out a way to get the air out - especially when the high point of the system is NOT the MC but a hydraulic line on the firewall.

 

Then I decided to take my vacuum pump (old regrigerator compressor) and pull a vacuum on the MC cap which had a smooth top and a nice vent right in the center.

 

I got a lot of air bubbled out and when the vacuum was removed, the fluid level was almost 1/2" lower.

 

I tried the pedal and at about 60% stroke, it felt like I was hitting a brick wall -  thought it was too stiff to be the clutch so I didn't bear into it.

 

So then I thought maybe I damaged the MC because I pulled nearly 15 psi of reverse pressure on it?  So I take the MC out and it worked just fine - so it must have been the clutch stiffness I was coming up against.

 

So I put everything back and do my A/C Repair Man method of getting the air out.

 

Back to the Brick Wall.

 

But it has to be the Clutch stiffness, right?

 

NO WAY!  I put some big pedal pressure on and was definitely in the rhealm of busting pedal system.

 

What is STUCK?

• Slave Cylinder Piston
• Throwout Bearing stuck to Front Bearing Retainer (truck sat for a good while and lots of surface rust underneath - hey, even my Voltage Regulator rusted out!)
• Fork is Messed up

Is there any History of components freezing up like this?

 

Tomorrow, I'm going to unbolt the SC and see if the "Brick Wall" is still there.

 

I would be very perturbed if I had to drop the transmission to free up the throwout bearing - that would definitely suck.

________________________________

 

EDIT:  NEXT DAY:

 

Cast Iron Slave Cylinder extremely rusted.  Got piston to move 1/8" but is frozen terribly and I'm thinking the cylinder will be pitted and will probably leak.

 

So I'm going to replace it, but the BIG QUESTION:  Was the OE cast iron or aluminum?  Everything in the hydraulics has been AL so what is an iron slave doing here?

[ggzilla]

Yes cast iron was original. Cheaper and stronger. Some of the other transmission parts to like the center plate and the front cover inside the bell.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

I'm surprised they used cast iron for the slave cylinder.

 

I'm pretty sure RockAuto has both iron and aluminum.  They have a Tokico which is the name on the wheel cylinders - I'm guessing that is alum.

 

I wonder how long this truck sat for the slave to rust frozen?

 

Should I get the iron or alum?

[ggzilla]

Get whatever you can find. Mine lasted 30 years, aluminum may not last that long. Since brake fluid absorbs water it should be changed per the maintenance schedule in the owners manual.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

RockAuto has them for $3 and change (!)  and they are Tokico (that was the name on the wheel cylinders)

 

I'm thinking that the brake and clutch applications are different.  Consider:

 

BRAKES:  Small stroke every time, usually low force, sometimes moderate, and rarely high force.

CLUTCH:  Long Stroke every time and full force every time.

 

Maybe I'll just buy a couple of the cheap ones, eh?

[ggzilla]

Tokico are the good ones. Made in Japan, Datsun original equipment.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Status Update:

 

GOAL:  Get inspected and on the road.

 

Accomplished:

• Parking Lights:  Pulled the front, bottoms rotted out.  Whether to weld repair, find used, or throw back in.  Must do weld repair on the front valence on one side so I have something to hold the plastic screw anchor.
• Head Lights:  Acid cleaned the headlight terminals and the connectors.  Then lubed with contact grease.
• Horn:  FIXED:  Horn pad contact screws came loose.  Tightened and polished contact surfaces w/Cratex point.
• Wipers:  Check motor is OK.  Switch not making contact.  Disassembled, Cratex polished, lubed, reassembled.
• Body:  Buffed out R bed and part of R door.  This is going to look awesome.  Very bright red.

 

Waiting on:

• Carb
• Hood Latch
• Hood Prop Rod
• Clutch Slave Cylinder (RockAuto) - Delivered 4/28

Wanted Parts List:

• (Carb)
• (Hood Latch)
• (Hood Prop Rod)
• Wheel:  4.5 x 14
• Spare Retract Mechanism
• Firewall Grommets:  Heater top, Hood release
• Inner Fender Grommets:  LF parking light
• Hood:  front trim piece
• Complete Windshield Washer setup (mine was stripped!)
• Air Cleaner Bracket (light blue "V" shape)
• Tailgate chains - one side only
• License plate light and bracket (mine was stripped)

Discretionary Wanted:

• Tailgate:  mine is dented and a tiny bit of rust
• Bumper Rear:  I don't have one, might be nice to have one. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

tokico & Nabco are stock slave cylinders good ones I think Beck Arney sell them to.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Quickie update:

 

Progress is very slow.  Trying to obtain used parts is frustrating because people disappear, send packages never arrive, don't answer the phone, etc.  At least I can't complain about someone taking $$$ and not sending stuff.  So far I have received NOTHING used.  Rock Auto is obviously stellar for new stuff.  Also got good service from an online Datsun Dealer.  Yeah $58 for a handful of nuts, screws, and clips.  I even sprung for the two $13 firewall heater hose grommets.  That smarted! 

 

But because of this, I've seriously considering throwing in the towel and selling the project.  Its must that I vowed I would find the proper Hitachi DCH 340 and eliminate that plywood MonoJet butcher job.  The red paint is impressive and someone would probably want to buy it.

 

Accomplished:

• Core support:  Welded and fiberglassing done
• Buffed out RHS and bed LHS
• Started tailgate hinge mount and bend end repair
• Disassembled headlight buckets, need to find springs, etc.

Parts Obtained:

• Tailgate SEM screws
• Bed Tailgate Hinge Rivet Nuts

 

Waiting on: (still since before April 27th, 2014)

• Carb
• Hood Latch
• Hood Prop Rod
• Clutch Slave Cylinder (RockAuto) - Delivered 4/28

Wanted Parts List:

• (Carb)
• (Hood Latch)
• (Hood Prop Rod)
• Wheel:  4.5 x 14
• Spare Retract Mechanism
• Firewall Grommets:  Heater top, Hood release
• Inner Fender Grommets:  LF parking light
• Hood:  front trim piece
• Complete Windshield Washer setup (mine was stripped!)
• Air Cleaner Bracket (light blue "V" shape)
• Tailgate chains - one side only
• License plate light and bracket (mine was stripped)

Discretionary Wanted:

• Tailgate:  mine is dented and a tiny bit of rust
• Bumper Rear:  I don't have one, might be nice to have one.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Have been welding for weeks now.  Over 5# of MIG wire used.  One bottle of CO2.  One bottle of O2.  This weekend should wrap up welding.

 

Lots of new pics but no time to post them.

 

Finally did get a carb but no other parts.  DatQuickDat... totally let me down.  4 times said sent packages and never received any.  Only good thing was that he did not take money up front.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

Finally had some time to upload welding pics.