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510 Dash lights (not working)


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#41 ggzilla

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:34 PM

Yes its very confusing because wile many ratsuners have discussed it they rarely identify years, etc. maybe not realizing it differs.

And the factory parts catalog seems to have the relays missing. But they are cheap at Nissan, except the local dealers can't find them in the catalog.
Here today gone tomorrow

#42 saleach

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:35 PM

Hey everyone! Sorry to bump an old thread but after extensive searching this is the closest thread I could find to my issue and didn’t want to make a new thread.

Backstory: new 510 owner of a 1972 510 with sr20de swap. 2 previous owners and neither of them were electricians judging by the wiring jobs. When i first got the car the gauge lights and tail lights worked (idk about high beams as it only had the two outer headlights.) After about 20 mins of bumpy, lowered riding, the dash lights and tail lights cut out. Then, they would come back on every so often, particularly under hard acceleration.

At this point, they are never on. I have taken apart the dash and looked through and cleaned up connections where I could. Similarly, I have replaced the fuses, cleaned contacts of the relay, checked the board of the gauges for breaks, checked the truck and side markers for shorts (i dont have side markers since i have IMSA flares), etc. I am 90% sure it’s a loose connection due to the fact that it came off and on periodically after it initally failed for no reason.

At this point I am running out of ideas. My specific questions are:
1. Does the headlight relay make an audible “click” when the brights are switched even without inner headlights installed?
2. Are there typical wiring failures that I can look for that may shake loose?
3. Is there anything under the car that could impact this phenomenon? The car is super low and im not used to driving this low and have hit my share of bumps. This could have rattled something loose but could it have been something under the car?

Sorry for the long post, I wanted to piggyback on this thread since it didn’t already have a happy ending. Any help is appreciated!

#43 datzenmike

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 09:05 PM

ONE

The 'at rest' position of the headlamp relay is high beams.

 

When you pull the switch out to the second position to turn the headlamps on, there are two possible things that can happen.

 

1/ If the turn signal switch is set to low beams, the relay will energize and switch from it's rest position to LOW beams. You may hear the click.

2/ If the turn signal switch is on high beams, the relay is already on high beams and nothing happens. There is no click.

 

You do not need headlamps for the relay to work. But you do need the parking lights working or the relay will stay in the high beams position. The relay is powered by the parking lights.

 

 

TWO

No wiring conditions that I can think of. If a previous owner has messed with the wiring, I woulds look there.

 

THREE

None of the 510s lighting wiring is low on the car and certainly none of it is on the exterior and is well protected inside. But again if a previous owner has messed with it and something is loose, bumps might affect it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

When the headlamp switch is pulled there are two positions or clicks. The first turns on the front and rear side marker, front parking, rear running, license plate lamps and the instrument cluster lamps. The second position does the same thing but also turns on the headlights.

 

As dash AND tail lights go out together I would suspect the lighting switch. I would imagine the front parking and side marker lights are out as well. Have you tried wiggling the headlamp switch when it on???


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#44 saleach

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 10:55 AM

Thanks a ton for the reply. This is very helpful.

So it looks like the problem may be with the headlight switch. When i pull it out 1 time, nothing happens (no lights) when I pull it out a second time, the front headlights (highbeams? Outer most headlights) come on.

I tried jiggling the light switch (good suggestion) but to no avail. I suppose it’s possible that the lightswitch has failed entirely.

To make matters worse, I somehow lost power to my brake lights now as well as reverse lights, so the only lights I have on the rear of the car are turn signals. Headlights/high beams still work.

I am worried that I am working backwards and will never make inspection at this point lol

Edit: brake lights were a blown fuse. However, i noticed that onthe high beam/turn signal switch, there is a black wire with green stripe that appears to have been soldered/terminated somewhere and I cant find where. It looks like it is ground for the switch according to the wiring diagrams. (This is not the green with black stripe wire, it’s black with green stripe.) I will continue to look for this connection point and report my findings.

#45 datzenmike

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 02:20 PM

The outer lamps are the HI/LOW beams and should have 3 wires. The inner lamps are just HI beams and have only 2 wires. I say this because they could have been swapped around by a PO.

 

The Black/Green wire on the steering column is grounded by the horn button to energize the horn relay.

 

HEADLAMP SWITCH

The Green/Blue and the Green/White wires are connected on the first and second pull out position on the light switch. This gives you all the running lamps front, back, side, dash and it powers the headlamp relay. (you need parking lamps in order to select low beams) The Green/White wire brings power from the fuse box. The Green/Blue distributed to the rest of the car. If the first position is not working but the second is, then the switch is at fault.

 

I have taken at least two headlamp switches apart. But first know that they are held together with folded metal clips that can be straightened once, with luck, and then bent back when re-assembling. More than this and the clips crack and snap off. I was able to clean the old hardened grease and crap off the brass/copper contacts and spring inside and get them working again. You might get the same results by heavily spraying with WD-40 to rinse it out while pulling the switch in and out through it's two positions. Of course this will not fix it if something is broken inside.


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#46 saleach

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 11:54 AM

Thanks again for the reply mike.

The connector between the headlight switch and the harness was burnt up in one spot so i cut and repinned a new connector but to no avail.

The switch does not do anything in the second position, and the outer headlights only come on when the switch is pulled all the way out.

I was able to take the switch apart (thanks for the tip on being careful) but did not see anything broken. I cleaned the contacts with rubbing alcohol and q-tips really well and reassembled everything. Unfortunately it didnt fix the second position energizing everything.

I also checked the blue/green wire to the switch using a test light and it did not have power. I also took apart the headlight relay for any broken connections but found none. Then, I poked around looking for shorts or broken grounds but came up empty.

What is meant by “parking lights”? Also, are there any other points i can troubleshoot ? I’d like to be 100% before I spend $50 on a old switch that may not be the culprit.

#47 Dolomite

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:00 PM

Alcohol and a sharktip may not be enough. I had to take 150g sandpaper to brake the glazing of ancient grease to get mine working again. You need to make sure the metal tabs are rocking correctly on the little bearings and that the tabs themselves are not bent.
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#48 datzenmike

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:05 PM

The first position turns on all the side marker (amber fronts and red rears), parking (amber above the front bumper), red rear running, white license plate and dash lights. They also stay on for the second position but the headlights now come on.

 

If no power on the Green/Blue, but there is on the Green/White* then the switch is not allowing it through.  *check for power on the Green/White wire. This is the power supply from the fuse box.


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#49 saleach

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 09:43 AM

Thanks again for the replies!

I have a meaningful update in that I have checked the green and white wire and verfieid that it is NOT bringing power to the switch. The only terminal that has power is the red and white cable.

I also found another burnt plug (looks like the red and white wire again) and It shared a spot next to the green/white cable. I replaced the plug but again to no avail.

Using the test light at the fuse box all fuses have power except for the top 2 on the right side when looking from the front of the car back. (Both the headlamps)

At this point i am going to take out the dash, and unwrap the entire length of cable wrapping and look for shorts. Again, thanks for the help and any additional advice is appreciated.

#50 saleach

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 09:43 AM

Thanks again for the replies!

I have a meaningful update in that I have checked the green and white wire and verfieid that it is NOT bringing power to the switch. The only terminal that has power is the red and white cable.

I also found another burnt plug (looks like the red and white wire again) and It shared a spot next to the green/white cable. I replaced the plug but again to no avail.

Using the test light at the fuse box all fuses have power except for the top 2 on the right side when looking from the front of the car back. (Both the headlamps)

At this point i am going to take out the dash, and unwrap the entire length of cable wrapping and look for shorts. Again, thanks for the help and any additional advice is appreciated.

#51 saleach

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:41 PM

Good news everyone!

I was able to troubleshoot the power from the green and white wire all the way back to the fuesbox. Once at the fusebox, I had 3 issues that were preventing power getting to the switch:
1. the fuse holder contacts were loose (this is why it powered on and off intermittently). I tightened those up and they held the fuse much better.

2. The green and white wire going to the fuse underneath the box had the insulation damaged and was shorting out, causing the fuse to blow. Wrapping it with electrical tape fixed the problem.

3. The crimp contact inside the connector was loose for the green/white wire. If you shook it with the light on, they would flicker and sometimes go out. I cut up a paperclip and carefully stuffed it in there and it firmed it up. 


I am happy to report the lights are working. Position 1: no lights. Position 2: dash lights, parking and tail lights. Position 3: inner headlights and dash/parking/tail lights. Position 3+turn signal brights illuminates the outer most lights. 

Thanks for the help everyone! Next task: Wiring an aftermarket horn to the existing wiring/relay.



#52 datzenmike

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:25 PM

The fuse box is removable. Maybe take pictures of where the wires go. Then wash thoroughly to remove any oil, fingerprints  or dirt and loose corrosion. An old toothbrush is good for this. Submerge overnight in a mixture of lemon juice and salt and in the morning rinse thoroughly and dry. (this is actually a Martha Stewart hint for cleaning copper pans) The fuse box is mostly copper and or brass.

 

The clips will heat up if not making good electrical contact and the heat will anneal (soften) the copper and take the springiness out of them. This provides less grip and makes the connections even more likely to heat up. A vicious circle. I've burnt my fingers on my headlamp fuses and melted the ones on a 720 box.

 

620 box. Looked like a '50s Lincoln penny before

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