loose things the valve cover a14

[jaime.g]

Hey everyone,

 

I've been trying to get my carburetor running well after rebuilding it a few days ago and I have not been able to get the b210 to idle or rev normally no matter what I try. I finally decided to try and adjust the valves and as soon as I take the valve cover off I discover some loose parts:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to attempt to put what I assume to be the end of the valves back in place accordingly, but I would like to know if when this situation occurs does damage usually result? I noticed that one of the spark plugs shows signs of overheating while the others were mostly wet but not fouled. I've been able to get the engine to somewhat idle at about 1200rpm without the pin in the anti-deiseling solenoid. I can also get it to rev to almost 4000 but it's a WOT effort which takes forever to get there. Hopefully I can just put everything back the way it was supposed to be and be on my way. I'm thinking that this was likely the cause for all of the listed symptoms.

[frisco510]

WOW running on 1 cylinder  you should be ok after putting back together and adj you valve lash

[Eagle_Adam]

those arent the valves they are the push rods, but once you realign everything you "should" be ok but thats where i would start then do a valve adjustment  

[bananahamuck]

WOW running on 1 cylinder  you should be ok after putting back together and adj you valve lash

 

Wow is an understatement if you could almost get it to run even somewhat ,,at all.  :w00t:  Also it would be a good idea to pull the push rods out (mushroom things) and make sure they aren't bent .

[KlassicMotion]

^^ I was typing the same thing when Banana chimed in. 

 

Your probably okay, but I'd pull the push rods out one at a time and roll them across a clean, flat surface to make sure they aren't bent.  Make sure you put each push rod back down the same hole they came out of.

 

 

 

Also, I'm not sure you realize, but the idle cut-off switch is not hooked up on your carb.  In fact the wire to it is missing entirely.  Also, I see a vacuum port that isn't hooked up. If it's not in use, you will want to plug it up.  And towards the rear of the engine, it looks like there might be another possible vacuum line not plugged, but maybe that one goes to the air cleaner?

[jaime.g]

There are some lines in the pic that are not in use anymore and I had the vacuum advance temporariliy unplugged. Also, thanks for noticing the idle cut solenoid, I am well aware of that. I have the pin inside removed so it can keep the car running instead of cutting out.

 

i set the crank mark on the pulley to 0 degrees, then set 1,2,3,5 from the front to .013"/0.33mm. Rotated the crank so the distributor rotor is facing exactly the opposite direction from 1, straight at 4 and set 4,6,7,8 to the same.

 

Car won't even start now and the carb is now backfiring consistently. I took the valve cover off and there are two rods that have escaped once again.

 

Enough for today. I've got to get some sleep. Next time I'll pull the rods out and inspect them. Well at least I know now why the car ran like crap after we got it back from mechanic who rebuilt the engine over a decade ago.

[KlassicMotion]

I'm not familiar with these engines, but I haven't heard of setting valves in that order before.  As a rule of thumb, you can always do it this way:  Get all the push rods set to the point where they move the rocker arm.  At that point, you can start on any cylinder you want.  Rotate the crankshaft until you see the either valve (in. or ex.) just start to open, at that point, you can set the opposite valve. In other words, as the intake is just starting to open, set the exhaust valve, and visa versa.  Since the first valve may not have been set well to start with, you may need to go back and do it again, to make sure they are set properly.

[Sealik]

 

 

 

 

looks like No 2 'cam tower' bolt is loose????

[datzenmike]

...and judging the length of adjustment screw showing on the jumped pushrod ones the locking screws weren't tightened enough, if at all. Must have been pretty loud.

[GRpufnstuf]

Yes that #2 bolt looks like it isn't holding anything down.

 

My volvo pushrods engines don't adjust in anything like that order.

 

I just rotate the crank until the valve I'm adjusting is clearly closed and there is play between it and the rocker arm.

 

I guess the second part might not work if things are way out of wack.

 

Get in there and tighten up those rocker assembly bolts, maybe re-torque the head bolts and make sure you're adjusting the valves when they are fully closed and get the lock nut TIGHT

[jaime.g]

I took a further look at this today and discovered the reason why that 2nd bolt was loose, it has completely stripped out the threads from the head :(

What are my options to resolve this? Insert a helicoil?

 

Also, I pulled out the pushrods and found 2,3,7, and 8 to be bent. Can I simply just replace the rods and set everything properly and be on my way?

 

In regards to why I set the valves in the order of 1,2,3,5 4,6,7,8 is because that is what the 76 factory service manual says to do.

 

[KlassicMotion]

Is the bolt hole an open hole, or a blind hole?  If it's open, I wouldn't want to get aluminum shavings down into the engine as you drill and tap it for a HeliCoil.  Otherwise at this point, you can put a HeliCoil in the head and replace the push rods and see what happens....

[MikeRL411]

Use a Threadsert, not a helicoil if you don't want to risk loosing the helicoil the next time you remove that bolt.  Threadserts are locked into the base casting with 2 steel locks after you drive them in with a good smack of a hammer.  They won't unscrew like helicoils may do after several years service.   By the way, if you are going to replace the bent push rods why not spring for a complete set?

[jaime.g]

I verified it is a blind hole so I won't be worried about shavings. I picked up an 8x1.25 helicoil kit and am waiting to find replacement rods before I beginning drilling. I know of an a15 I can pull the pushrods out of at the junkyard this week.

 

Thanks for the tip about the threadsert. I don't think I'll be too concerned if the helicoil comes out in the future when disassembling.

[jaime.g]

I installed the helicoil and replacement pushrods and the 2nd and 7th valve are not acting right. they're not coming back up all the way which allows the pushrod to come back loose as well as bend them. I haven't taken off the head to verify this but that's just a guess. 

[jaime.g]

i'm thinking of just snagging the a15 head from a 79 210 that i've been pulling parts off of instead of having to do machine work on the a14 head.

 

I do have a few concerns with this though, if anyone can answer them:

 

1. Will the a15 head bolt up to the 76 a14 block and manifolds without issue?

2.. the 79 210 apparently is a low power version with about 67hp in automatic trim.

3. Will this change the hp rating of my 80 hp a14? I'm thinking that it won't since hopefully the hp difference is due to the piston shape and not due to the head?

[datO)))]

Yes that #2 bolt looks like it isn't holding anything down.

My volvo pushrods engines don't adjust in anything like that order.

I just rotate the crank until the valve I'm adjusting is clearly closed and there is play between it and the rocker arm.

I guess the second part might not work if things are way out of wack.

Get in there and tighten up those rocker assembly bolts, maybe re-torque the head bolts and make sure you're adjusting the valves when they are fully closed and get the lock nut TIGHT

I too tryed the 1235 and 4678 and it made no sence. I tryed it your way and worked just fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the main action in doing a valve adjustment

Is to make sure that any rocker arm that is in a free state, has only .013 of total movement. Right?

[kelowg]

Better ck cam timing. What bent the push rods!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[datzenmike]

Set TDC compression #1 and set the valve lash on 1235. Turn engine ONE turn back up to TDC adjust 4678. This is true on all Nissan 4 cylinders. Faster and can be done before the engine cools off.

[ggzilla]

Yes. It's what the Datsun factory service manual recommends.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but the main action in doing a valve adjustment

Is to make sure that any rocker arm that is in a free state, has only .013 of total movement. Right?

.013 inch with COLD engine

 

The "key" is to make sure .013" fits and .014" does NOT fit.

 

See http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Valve_adjustment

[az_rat210]

The A15 head may be a round port or swirl type head. I would suggest reading up on head identification here

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Cylinder_Head_Identification

 

Otherwise you could wind up needing a different manifold for coolant flow and port matching, otherwise just rebuild the H72 head you have.

[ggzilla]

A15s only came with A14 heads (there is no A15-only head).

 

There are many A14/A15 heads. If you change from the 80hp H72 head (oval port) to the 67hp 728 (round port) head, then YES you will lose HP. But don't worry: it only makes less HP above 4000 rpm. Below 4000 rpm the round port head makes more power.

[az_rat210]

Heh, you realize we are having this discussion on a 2 year old thread which I did not catch when posting.  I never said there was an A15 only head.  But he did mention he was looking at a head from an A15 so 79 and up.  This means coolant passages could be open and it could be the H95 head with swirl ports both mean a manifold change.

[ggzilla]

Yep, 1 year 4 months ago he asked.

 

1. Will the a15 head bolt up to the 76 a14 block and manifolds without issue?

2.. the 79 210 apparently is a low power version with about 67hp in automatic trim.

3. Will this change the hp rating of my 80 hp a14? I'm thinking that it won't since hopefully the hp difference is due to the piston shape and not due to the head?

HP is mainly due to the cylinder head (& related induction/exhaust parts). The piston shape has a much smaller influence.

[datO)))]

Perfect .

Set TDC compression #1 and set the valve lash on 1235. Turn engine ONE turn back up to TDC adjust 4678. This is true on all Nissan 4 cylinders. Faster and can be done before the engine cools off.

When I did this, I started with rotor pointing at piston#1.

Adjusted 1,2,3&5.

Then rotated so the rotor is facing piston#4.

Adjusted 4,6,7&8.

When looking at #1 valve, it was so sloppy a good 1/4 gap.

So what I did is went down individually rotated each valve and adjusted them that way.

I used a "Go" & "NoGo" gage to set the gap.

I'm more than willing to revisit this if there is a better way with better output/end result. Cheers