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Just finished my RL411 5-speed swap... learned some things


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#1 sreams

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 12:15 PM

There has been some discussion about how swapping a Roadster 5-speed into an RL411 results in the shifter being too far back. I think I figured out -the- solution for this during my install.

 

I was looking closely at the shift mechanism on the 5-speed, and at pictures of other Datsun transmissions, and I started thinking maybe the "arm" that receives the shift lever could be flipped around 180 degrees. Well, it can. The result is a shift lever that is about 2" further forward:

 

5speed411a.jpg

 

This does result in the shift lever leaning forward too much, but a bent lever from a different Datsun (not sure which, actually) solves that easily. This can be seen in the above image. With the bent lever, metal and plastic "washers" are needed to keep it from spinning with side-to-side movement. I found an Ebay seller in Mexico who manufactures these. They can also be seen installed in the above image.

 

With this setup, a 280z inner shift boot works well (along with some sheet metal plate I cut to mount it to):

 

5speed411b.jpg

 

This cuts down on noise nicely. Finally... after researching what some of the 510 guys had done, I settled on a shifter console from an early 90s Honda Civic:

 

5speed411c.jpg

 

I plan to go with a nicer shift knob when I find one. The whole setup works beautifully, and the shifter comes out -exactly- where I want it. Hopefully others can benefit from what I've found.

 

-Scott



#2 datzenmike

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:11 PM

Now that's Ratsun, right there.


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#3 67411sss

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:54 AM

If that works, excellent  job. I think it is ERIC B that was doing a bastard 5 speed gearbox conversion. yours seems to good to be true hopefully not.



#4 sreams

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:51 AM

If that works, excellent  job. I think it is ERIC B that was doing a bastard 5 speed gearbox conversion. yours seems to good to be true hopefully not.

 

Well... I'm driving the car now, so no need to hope. It works.

 

Eric's solution was for a 4-speed, not a 5-speed. The RL411 4-speeds are hard to come by, so he found a way to basically make one by combining two transmissions.

 

There is no way to shorten a Roadster 5-speed, but now it appears there is no need to.

 

-Scott



#5 Datsun Dude

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:53 AM

Great work! Makes me think that I might do that someday to my RL411. I'll be keeping my eye out for a Roadster 5 speed tranny.



#6 67411sss

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:02 AM

Well... I'm driving the car now, so no need to hope. It works.

Eric's solution was for a 4-speed, not a 5-speed. The RL411 4-speeds are hard to come by, so he found a way to basically make one by combining two transmissions.

I didn't think there was a difference between the roadster 4 speed and the 411 SSS 4 speed



-Scott



#7 sreams

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:08 AM

I didn't think there was a difference between the roadster 4 speed and the 411 SSS 4 speed

 

There is. The roadster 4-speed is longer. Here's Eric's thread on how to modify it for the 411:

 

http://community.rat...ed-trans-build/

 

BTW... I'm pretty sure my "flip the shifter arm around" solution would not be sufficient with the roadster four speed. The 4-speed roadsters have their shift levers further back than the 5-speed roadsters do, oddly enough. But then... who wants 4 gears when you can easily have 5?

 

-Scott



#8 graveltrapp

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:32 PM

Nice work and thanks for the update, got the feelers out for a 5speed.



#9 erichwaslike

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:02 AM

yes if you were refeering to me... not sure where the "b came from.... ERICH P? my setup was to build a proper length 4 speed fo someoen just trying to manual swap a auto car. the roadster 5 speeds can get a lil pricey so i went 4 speed since the length was an issue and i wasnt interested in spending the money at the tiem to try and make it work. the sd22/25 5 speed trans fits perfect too..... just need a short case 2wd one and they arent that common form what ive seen


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#10 sreams

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:05 PM

yes if you were refeering to me... not sure where the "b came from.... ERICH P? my setup was to build a proper length 4 speed fo someoen just trying to manual swap a auto car. the roadster 5 speeds can get a lil pricey so i went 4 speed since the length was an issue and i wasnt interested in spending the money at the tiem to try and make it work. the sd22/25 5 speed trans fits perfect too..... just need a short case 2wd one and they arent that common form what ive seen

 

In order to save at least some money, the trick is to get a later Borg Warner 5-speed with brass synchros. The early roadster 5-speeds with steel synchros are more desirable for the roadster guys, and so cost more.

 

-Scott



#11 Datsun Dude

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 04:02 PM

Hi,
I may have a line on a 5 speed transmission from someone on the 311s.org site. A question from the seller, though:

 

Do you have the correct transmission cross member, flex plate and flywheel? I have these for sure ready to ship. The first two are different on the R16 and U20 engines.

 

How could I find this info out?

 

Thanks!



#12 exit64

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 12:07 PM

The back plate on the motor is twice as thick for the 5spd vs the 4 speed on an R16.  You can double up the plate if you don't have one off of a U20.  If you don't use the thicker plate you run the risk of messing up the thrust bearings.  Been discussed to death on 311s.org.


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#13 exit64

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 08:00 AM

For the Roadster, the cross member is different. It either steps up or down for the 5 speed. I can't remember which off hand. There are rumors of making the 4 spd member work by flipping it over. Make sure that you get the correct arm for the throw out bearing also. 4 speed one is different.
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#14 exit64

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 08:03 AM

I am a week or two away from stuffing a R20 stroker and 5 Spd into the Blackbird. I will fully document that process complete with pictures and cuss words.
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#15 ppeters914

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:18 AM

For the Roadster, the cross member is different. It either steps up or down for the 5 speed. I can't remember which off hand. There are rumors of making the 4 spd member work by flipping it over. Make sure that you get the correct arm for the throw out bearing also. 4 speed one is different.

Yeah, IIRC there's an old thread or two on folks modifying the 4-speed mount to work with the 5-speed tranny. All of this is moot because those mods are for the roadster, which has a frame and a transmission cross-member. Mostly irrelevant for the uni-body 410/411. Either way, you're fabricating if you don't have the stock 411 4-speed (Hmmmm.......I should probably sell mine).


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#16 exit64

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 01:20 AM

Pretty sure I have at least one in the 32 Apple boxes of parts that came with the Black Bird. The PO never had just one of anything,as far as I can tell. Not to mention a bunch of Roadster parts that got thrown in for good measure.
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#17 ppeters914

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:47 AM

Pretty sure I have at least one in the 32 Apple boxes of parts that came with the Black Bird. The PO never had just one of anything,as far as I can tell. Not to mention a bunch of Roadster parts that got thrown in for good measure.

Trans bigger than Alan's apple boxes. I gotta come down and go through those boxes with you........-AFTER- I get the roadster on the road.  B)


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#18 raceneely

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:03 PM

what did you do on the roadster 5 speed about the speedo cable?

 

Neely

 

 



#19 JDOM310

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 03:41 PM

Hey guys is it just me or are these images not availae? Was interested in info for a swap .
Can't view pics

#20 Draker

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 03:45 PM

I think they are long gone. 


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