Steve's 521 project (BRE)

[Steve521]

Just like any other build thread, I will post pics and details as I go for restoring/building my first 521 that turned out to be a great start but has had one pretty big surprise that's gonna cost me.  :crying:  Also, the BRE part will come much later and this build will be a three stage process that I still haven't gotten around to photoshopping the plans.  

The plan is more simple to explain in 3 goals:

 

1) Get it running and safe to drive just "slow and local" which will entail fixing the rear brakes, engine work and install a new windshield at the very least.  

 

2) The second stage will be to perfect each body panel one at a time and seal it off well with probably a high quality sealer primer, make the interior much nicer and add some deeper dish rims (probably not real expensive style)

 

3) The third is the biggest and will cost a crap load of money so we'll see what the future holds.  The 3rd stage is to transplant a much more powerful engine, retrofit much better brakes and much better (more modern style) rims, seriously update the suspension for performance handling (lowered of course), fabricate some aspects of the bed and paint the truck in a very tasteful (without numbers/sponsors) a BRE (Brock Racing Enterprises) two (technically three) tone paint job which will not be typical red, white and blue but silver, dark red and dark blue.  The body line of the truck is where the diagnal stripe would split.  The truck would be built to perform and although I'd love to shove a LT-1 6 speed in it, I probably wouldn't feel right about it and will go with an original Datto powerplant. 

 

First of all before I start the recording of pics and info on this project, I'd really like to thank Dan (Daniel C) for coming out and helping me get started on this project.  I've been a professional technician for 20+ years but it's always good to know specific things to watch out for on these 'lil gems.  I also would like to thank Wayne and several others for continuing to offer to help and for giving a newbie to classic Datsuns great info on my first thread...

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/56420-finally-got-a-521/

[KlassicMotion]

I went to the other thread and looked at your pics... You could have used that as your build thread... Anyways, it looks like a decent truck.  What's the big surprise that's gonna cost you?

[Steve521]

Finally, after much waiting because of home renovation projects, taking care of 3 kids 2, 7 & 9, I got started on the repairs/restoration of my new 521 (see the link in first post)

 

Again, this was a combined effort by Daniel C and I and consisted of hooking up the battery and testing the electrical functions, checking the brakes (still in that process because of drums being stuck), and seeing if we could get my Matchbox Dizzy stabbed and possibly wired in.  Anyway, these were the first steps but there was a terrible surprise waiting for us...

 

*Finally got it in the garage and off the ground, pulled the rear wheels first because was told by previous owner it has brake issues in the rear

 

 

Big enough hammer??

 

 

Just a little bit of a peak under there shows me that I'm gonna need exhaust work and the clear signs that it's been sitting

 

 

When I bought the truck, the owner gave me a spare battery that he had that actually so far looks like it's OK but there was no positive cable so we installed a new cable I got from Napa so we could test the electrical.

 

 

So now it was time to test the functions of the electrical systems...  Most of the lights worked but there was a bad connection at the fuse block that was not allowing the dash idiot lights to come on so Dan played around with the connection and all that works now.  This electrical functionality is unfortunately the only thing that really was good news while working on the truck yesterday.

 

 

So, although I don't have a pic of it, we did set the new distributor in just to make sure it would go in but took it back out after our next discovery.  When I purchased the truck, I grabbed the fan and turned the engine but not very far.  Well, turns out it wasn't far enough because when Dan and I tried to turn the engine with a breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt it would turn smooth and then just stop.  We knew at this point that something mechanical was wrong and my heart just sunk.  Well, we pulled the valve cover off of course to see if anything was noticeable.  Found a #4 cylinder valve was stuck down some and tried to tap it loose and it only sunk more.  Then we removed all the spark plugs and turned the engine to see if the piston was hitting the valve.  While looking into the spark plug hole of #4 while Dan was turning it, I could see 2 things.  The first thing is that the engine wasn't getting stuck on the upwards stroke but the downwards stroke of the piston and that the piston looked pretty rusty.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This means no more replace distributor, battery cable, windshield, brakes and drive.  Now I'm gonna have to pull the head off and see what's going on.  It also means that there's most likely lower damage to the engine and I better look at either rebuilding mine (numbers matching L16) or buying another good running and complete L16, 18 or 20.  I'm not made of money so this is not a good thing but my wife and I talked about it and we're gonna keep the truck and fix it.  Now I just have to figure out how much money I can get out of all my junk around the house so I can fund it.  I will be pulling the head off this week and updating this thread.

 

Does anyone have any advice on my current dilema and does anyone know what it takes to just do a simple rebuild of an L16 if there's no lower block damage? 

[KlassicMotion]

First off, I think you'll find that most Datsun people don't care if they have a "numbers matching" vehicle.  Your best bet is to find a running L20B.  I've been finding them for under $250.  And that's in Kansas, where Datsun's are pretty "rare".  Also consider buying the whole donor vehicle with the engine.  In other words, a lot of times you can find a running Datsun 620 or 720 with the L20B for less than $1000.  Buy that, take out the engine and sell the rest.  I just bought a running '73 620 for $200....  Take your time and search.  Fix everything else while your looking for a good deal.

 

If your just going to drop an engine off at a reputable machine shop and tell them to rebuild it, you will probably be looking at $1500 plus.

[KlassicMotion]

This is in your neighborhood...

 

http://community.ratsun.net/classifieds/item/1468-fs-l20b-u67-recently-regasket/#overview

[mrbigtanker]

Stop wasting time and do a L20b or new motor swap.And if you don't need the truck and your not going to cut up per say Or go all out like some other dummy on this forum(me) just strip it and start doing what you want to do instead of in stages like I am doing.

 

Again if you don't need the truck.If you need it then step 1 ready.

[KlassicMotion]

Stages, not all out.  Best option.

[Steve521]

Since I'm still pretty much a noob here and with classic Datsuns in general, would any of my L16 parts bolt up to the one that L20 KlassicMotion pointed me to in Portland?  I could pick up that engine now for that money but am concerned about how much would have to go into it.  thanks guys for the help and I am not set on keeping the original engine in the truck.  

[KlassicMotion]

In short, yes.  Most everything will bolt right on.  You will run into some issues like the engine is one inch taller, so you might have an issue with the exhaust down pipe needing to be extended, but you said you need new exhaust anyways.  Everything else I can think of though will swap... You will probably need to swap the oil pan too depending on what is on there already. Ah, the clutch and flywheel are different....  Adam may have a flywheel you could purchase... I bought my flywheel from this company; here is what I'd buy if I were in your shoes:

http://www.autopartsexpress.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=1976-NISSAN/DATSUN-Pickup--620-L4--1952cc--2.0l--2--Bbl--Vin--L20b&yearid=1976%40%401976&makeid=60%40%40NISSAN%2FDATSUN%40%40B&modelid=3299%40%40PICKUP%20620&engineid=11198@@L4-1952cc%202.0L%202%20BBL%20Vin%20L20B@@11198&catid=10@@Exhaust/Clutch&subcatid=159@@Flywheel&mode=PA

 

I'm guessing you don't need a lightened flywheel, but if you did, this should be a good replacement without any machine work: 

http://www.autopartsexpress.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=1976-NISSAN/DATSUN-610-L4--1952cc--2.0l--2--Bbl--Vin--L20b&yearid=1976%40%401976&makeid=60%40%40NISSAN%2FDATSUN%40%40B&modelid=3295%40%40610&engineid=11197@@L4-1952cc%202.0L%202%20BBL%20Vin%20L20B@@11197&catid=10@@Exhaust%2FClutch&subcatid=159@@Flywheel&mode=PA

 

That is the one I bought for my 510.  Before I lightened it more, it weighed between 22-24lbs.  I think the first flywheel there weighs in about 28-31lbs.  Truck flywheels are usually heavier to help lug the engine off the line with a load.

[Steve521]

Thank you so much for the quick replies.  I tried to message Adam but it says he can't receive any for some reason so I left a public question "comment" on his classified ad about the engine.  I sure appreciate all the help you guys have given and as I've said before don't take it for granted.  

 

Oh and about the rebuilding of the engine, I would only send it to a machine shop for the actual machining.  I've rebuilt engines before so I would do all the disassembling/assembling but it sounds like I'm gonna be aiming for a complete L20.

 

Mr. BigT, I would just do it all in one shot but there's the money issue (not much of it) and I do need the truck for local driving only.  Me and my wife are dedicated to fixing this truck up though and as many nice cars/trucks I've let go in my lifetime which I shouldn't have makes me hold on to it even tighter.

[KlassicMotion]

Decking the block, and head, and then putting the head back on is a little complicated.... You have to shim the cam towers, and install new valve pads... maybe something else I'm forgetting....  Just an FYI if you decide to do it yourself.  They also say not to remove the cam towers unless you are going to align bore the towers after you put them back on....

[Steve521]

Decking the block, and head, and then putting the head back on is a little complicated.... You have to shim the cam towers, and install new valve pads... maybe something else I'm forgetting....  Just an FYI if you decide to do it yourself.  They also say not to remove the cam towers unless you are going to align bore the towers after you put them back on....

 

Oh OK, this is precisely why I like to talk to you guys about stuff because what good is having the mechanical know how when you don't know the "little things" about a certain vehicle? xD  I will push pretty hard on just getting an engine that I can either hear run or at least one that's assembled by someone who is trusted on this site. ;-)  Hope Adam contacts me, because I'm ready to get this goin'.

[KlassicMotion]

I tried to contact Adam earlier today.  He said he would try to get his inbox sorted.  When you tried to get his attention, did you "quote" something he had posted?  That worked for me on another thread.

[wayno]

Tear the head off and see what the issue is, maybe the valve is just rusty.

Remember to jam the timing chain before removing the cam gear.

[Steve521]

Tear the head off and see what the issue is, maybe the valve is just rusty.

Remember to jam the timing chain before removing the cam gear.

 

Thanks Wayne, yeah I just ordered the tool for doing that today from Amazon and I'll take the head off this week and post pics. ;-)

 

Edit - oops sorry Klassic, I didn't see your post.  Umm, I didn't try that quote idea.  Wayne is right though I really need to get the head off first and see what I'm dealing with but I still may buy the L20...could always resell it if I didn't need it.

[wayno]

I just use a block of wood cut to the correct shape myself.

I actually have an L16 in the shed, I bought it for the dual SUs it had on it, the guy I bought it from said it ran when pulled, but they all say that.

I will never use an L16, it doesn't have the torque or CCs I need, if it runs, I would want $50.00 for it, it doesn't come with the oilpan/oil pickup tube or intake, it's basically a block and head.

Just tear the head off first, see what is there.

[Steve521]

I just use a block of wood cut to the correct shape myself.

I actually have an L16 in the shed, I bought it for the dual SUs it had on it, the guy I bought it from said it ran when pulled, but they all say that.

I will never use an L16, it doesn't have the torque or CCs I need, if it runs, I would want $50.00 for it, it doesn't come with the oilpan/oil pickup tube or intake, it's basically a block and head.

Just tear the head off first, see what is there.

 

Yeah, I think the smart move would be to just buy the L20 if it's an OK one and if my current engine is junk, then I'll have that one to put in.  If my engine isn't junk then I'll have the L20 to plan for and look forward to...thanks Wayne for the info.

[Steve521]

Update:  Should be able to pull the head off as early as tomorrow or Friday night to see what's goin' on in there.  I went ahead and bought that L20 from Adam also.  Just doing whatever it takes to get 'er goin'  :thumbup:

[KlassicMotion]

Awesome!  I'm glad you guys could get together. 

 

What head is on the L16 that's in your truck?

[KlassicMotion]

I found this on here if you need a flywheel:

 

http://community.ratsun.net/classifieds/item/1382-5-bolt-flywheels-with-clutches/#overview

[DanielC]

A few things to watch for, off the top of my head.  I have not actually put a L-20 -B in a stock 521, just what I remember from reading other information.

 

The L-20-B engine is about 3/4 of an inch taller.  The exhaust pipe between the torsion bar, and the transmission is a tight fit, and some changes may need to be made.  Also, the bottom of the L-20-B engine exhaust manifold may have a different configuration than the L-16 manifold.   I understand a square exhaust port manifold may bolt on to a round port L-20-B head, but this is not ideal.

 

The 521 stock 4 speed transmission will bolt to the L-20-B engine.  The L-20-B engine uses a six bolt flywheel, the L-16 flywheel is 5 bolt.  I believe the L-20-b has a 225 MM clutch disk, unless the L-20-B engine was in a truck, and then it may have a 240 MM clutch disk.  The collar, or sleeve that holds the throwout bearing has different heights to accommodate the difference in heights of the different pressure plates.

[Eagle_Adam]

not a bad start man!!!! 

 

cant wait to see the motor in and running! lemme know when you wanna pick it up 

[KlassicMotion]

The L-20-B engine is about 3/4 of an inch taller.  The exhaust pipe between the torsion bar, and the transmission is a tight fit, and some changes may need to be made.  Also, the bottom of the L-20-B engine exhaust manifold may have a different configuration than the L-16 manifold.   I understand a square exhaust port manifold may bolt on to a round port L-20-B head, but this is not ideal.

 

The engine he bought has the u67 head wich has the square exhaust ports, same as his L16.  I assume he will just bolt his intake and exhaust straight over.  There shouldn't be any issue other than the down pipe after the manifold and flange.

[Eagle_Adam]

The engine he bought has the u67 head wich has the square exhaust ports, same as his L16.  I assume he will just bolt his intake and exhaust straight over.  There shouldn't be any issue other than the down pipe after the manifold and flange.

 

correct, ive seen round manis on square heads and vice verse. It will work

 

how the exhaust mani connects to the exhaust pipe itself will differ based on what mani your running but i thought i saw mention of needing new exhaust anyway 

[wayno]

Just bolt the L16 exhaust manifold onto the L20b with the U67 head, you will be fine, the only thing that ever bothered me about it was the L16 down pipe/head pipe is so small, but under normal driving conditions it should be fine, but if you start trying to rev it up, it will need a larger pipe in the transition from the two pipes to one, it's so freaking tiny. 

I put an L20b in my 1966 520 project, I used a stock L16 manifold and down/head pipe, it might just barely be touching the transmission plate, that is where you need to watch, when you raise it that 1 inch that the block is taller, it might get close to the engine/transmission mating edge, I am sure mine wasn't touching when I test fitted it, otherwise I would have done something about it, I have no exhaust leaks, and no issues with exhaust gaskets so far.

I am in the near future though going to have another down/head pipe made, as it is so tiny, and maybe that is one of my power issues, a restrictive exhaust.