putting in mr2 inserts and crap

[DatMo]

So, i finally got to the point where i have rims and tires and im getting to the point where my suspension is done but i have to put in.

 

putting them on, ive encountered numerous problems.

most have been solved but one that has not is this.

 

my kyb mr2 insert will not work with cartridge cap that fits onto the struts.

the cap wont reach the bottom so tomorrow i plan to grind it off to get the cap in.

a problem with this is for one, i dont know how much to really grind off because i need about an inch but can only grind 3/8's off the bottom.

second, the cap doesn't sit flush. it completely wiggles by hand and putting all that pressure when it's completely installed scares me.

 

now for pics.

 

this is what im planing to shave off as ive been told its my problem.

 

this is the top of it. and the second is where it sits.

you can also kind of tell that it just sits on top and doesnt really secure the piece.

 

this is all the wiggle room it has which worries me.

 

this is the cap just on the insert and as you can see, it doesnt do much...

 

any ideas?

i dont have any machining tools. is it supposed to sit like that with wiggle room?

or does it actually go onto the insert body?

[datzenmike]

Looks like the strut tubes were not cut to the MR2 length. What's the back story on ther strut tubes???

[DatMo]

Looks like the strut tubes were not cut to the MR2 length. What's the back story on ther strut tubes???

Well it does because the guy I bought it from said that the need shock never comes with that bottom piece welded on so it fits. He also had a customer that did the same setup and his shock came without the bottom attachment. What do you mean backstory? Sorry.

[ProjectFeint]

Who cut the strut tubes? Did the person who cut them specify which mr2 insert to use? the threaded collar is supposed to hold down the top of the strut pretty snug

[TenafterFive]

I cut the strut tubes. I cut them for Mr2 cartridges. Datmo was having a problem at first because apparently 68' strut caps are different than all other years. No big deal. Datmo hit me up, I then proceeded to overnight him some proper caps off another set of struts I have. I took .040 off the inside of the cap because I wanted to make sure it fit his insert. Which was supposed to be the same as the ones I Purchased. Napa part # 72881 which is actually a KYB. Which you can clearly see has a separate spacer in the pic on Napaonline.com. Monroe part #72881 s3d12 is also for an MR2 but is actually a Shorter insert than the KYB and duznt have a spacer welded on the bottom. (see pic below). I hadn't seen the pic of the oversized cap on the strut. I had told him to wrap the top of the tube with electrical tape to take up the slack in the nut-insert gap. That gap is obviously too big for that. even if I hadn't machined it I don't think it would have centered up. So after he tried again the strut was too tall. no big deal. just grind off the spacer on the bottom. Well I think Datmo is really frustrated and duznt really want to ask me anymore questions. Which I understand. But modifying suspensions on any car MAY have a few glitches which need troubleshooting. I will say I have bent over backwards to help him out. And Its not a big deal for me to do so. Hes 15 and loves 510's so I am very glad to give him insight when I can. For me I just want everyone to know that I Know what I am doing. Ive been building 510's since the early 90's. And building Racecars professionally for 15 years. I even knew Ermish BEFORE his shop days. I have made over 40 sets of struts for people. I shortened Docsis (member) and a few other SD people that have hit me up. Below are some pics of my car with the exact same setup,Minus the 6 piston calipers. And an airbox I made for a Customers S2000. I can only attribute this to being a weird insert.

I don't wanna come off as really defensive but I have a huge line of 510 parts that I want to debut at the next eagle rock and I don't want this to turn into another Ermish thread situation. I really feel my Camber plates are going to be the best in the business. And I want Datmo to get his car up and running and be happy.

%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/migwire/securedownload14.jpg

%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/migwire/securedownload12-1.jpg

%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/migwire/photo-3.jpg

%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/migwire/photo2-1.jpg

%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/migwire/photo3.jpg

[DatMo]

Tenafter is completely right.

He has done more than i could ask for.

and as he stated, his stuff is some pretty awesome as well.

DEF recommend.

 

I couldn't thank him enough.

And i did shave them off as he suggested.

 

It worked well although the strut is still not completely centered and i can move it with my hand.

That's what worries me.

 

I'll get pics and post em in about five minutes.

[datzenmike]

Stack some washers around the bottom to hold it in the middle.

[KlassicMotion]

My Tokico 3038's came with new housing cap nuts and a washer that inserted into the housing nut to apply pressure down on to the insert....  Mike's suggestion of adding washers under the insert would be easier, and gain you a couple mm of travel, for what that's worth.  Your almost there though.  Just a run to the hardware store!

[DatMo]

Stack some washers around the bottom to hold it in the middle.

When i put the trans fluid into the body to make sure that it doesnt over heat, wont it mess with the washers?

and when the washers become hot, isnt that also bad?

 

I was told to put 2/3 trans fluid in the body that i plan to get tomorrow.

 

I put the washer from the cartridge cap on and it did get a bit better but nothing great.

The amount of threads to screw on became about half the cap as well. way less threads.

 

i was thinking that maybe itll be centered when the spring is put on and it reaches the top hot. but im scared that wiggling could be dangerous when driving.

 

Here's also how much thread is left without the washer.

 

there's a vid of the wiggling.

it was centered at the start by hand. tightened with my hand as well.

[DatMo]

here's the vid.

 

[KlassicMotion]

When i put the trans fluid into the body to make sure that it doesnt over heat, wont it mess with the washers?

and when the washers become hot, isnt that also bad?

 

I was told to put 2/3 trans fluid in the body that i plan to get tomorrow.

 

I put the washer from the cartridge cap on and it did get a bit better but nothing great.

The amount of threads to screw on became about half the cap as well. way less threads.

 

i was thinking that maybe itll be centered when the spring is put on and it reaches the top hot. but im scared that wiggling could be dangerous when driving.

 

Here's also how much thread is left without the washer.

 

there's a vid of the wiggling.

it was centered at the start by hand. tightened with my hand as well.

 

The picture of your threads is what mine looks like.  But my insert is tight, no movement.  There seems to be conflicting opinions about whether or not there needs to be fluid surounding the insert to "cool" it.

 

Some insist that most of the time what you find with used struts, is the oil from inside the insert leaking out into the housing, and people assume it needs to go back that way.

 

The stock 280zx inserts are different than the MR2 inserts you are putting in them.  The stock units used the housing as the fluid reservoir.  The original insert was an open design and the cap nut had a rubber o'ring to seal the fluid in the housing.

 

The insert you are putting in is a sealed unit and to my knowledge, needs no fluid around it.  The new cap nut that came with my inserts is vented to allow the expansion and contraction of the air inside, but there were no instructions to put fluid around the insert.  I suppose for high performance situations, maybe....

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see that the strut, or heat from the brakes, would create enough heat under normal cirumstances to need the cooling fluid....

[DatMo]

The picture of your threads is what mine looks like.  But my insert is tight, no movement.  There seems to be conflicting opinions about whether or not there needs to be fluid surounding the insert to "cool" it.

 

Some insist that most of the time what you find with used struts, is the oil from inside the insert leaking out into the housing, and people assume it needs to go back that way.

 

The stock 280zx inserts are different than the MR2 inserts you are putting in them.  The stock units used the housing as the fluid reservoir.  The original insert was an open design and the cap nut had a rubber o'ring to seal the fluid in the housing.

 

The insert you are putting in is a sealed unit and to my knowledge, needs no fluid around it.  The new cap nut that came with my inserts is vented to allow the expansion and contraction of the air inside, but there were no instructions to put fluid around the insert.  I suppose for high performance situations, maybe....

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see that the strut, or heat from the brakes, would create enough heat under normal cirumstances to need the cooling fluid....

I was just told by tenafter. and to be honest, even if not enough heat is produced to cause any problems, there's no harm in avoiding future problems.

 

my insert isn't tight. it worries me a ton.

I don't want to put them on the car with them being able to wiggle.

 

if i can move it with my hand which is little strength, the car will be able to move it tons and could be dangerous.

but like i said, lining it up with the top hat when i put it in may get it to be straight.

and tightening it as much as possible.

[TenafterFive]

The cap needs to sleeve around that insert. It cannot move like that. There somehow needs to be a shim or something to hold them straight. The cap is what centers them

[DatMo]

The cap needs to sleeve around that insert. It cannot move like that. There somehow needs to be a shim or something to hold them straight. The cap is what centers them

I got some washers I had laying around that were similar to yours and they work very useful on one of them but the other still seems to wiggle a slight but which surprised me because they're identical and id assume if it worked on one, it would work on the other. Lol.

[DatMo]

here's what it looks like with washers.

the cap is screwed on less as well.

it is more stiff and then once i move it, of course the threading loosens.

 

i also think i might be able to cut this off but im afraid that if i do, gas may leak out or something of the sort?

 

[ProjectFeint]

I like TenafterFive's idea of electrical tape around the cartridge, I hear some people use an o-ring but sometimes the clearance between the cartridge and strut tube is so small that tape is a more viable solution.

[DatMo]

I like TenafterFive's idea of electrical tape around the cartridge, I hear some people use an o-ring but sometimes the clearance between the cartridge and strut tube is so small that tape is a more viable solution.

yes but even he said that it's too much.

do you have any idea if i can remove the very bottom part?

If i could shave that entire thing off, i could be able to use enough thread and the washer that it'll remain in place.

[TenafterFive]

Trans fluid around the shock is basically a liquid catalyst between the insert and the shock tube to help keep it cool. If you run shocks hard enough they build heat and the pocket of air has nowhere to disperse the heat to. I've been doing it since forever. Is Datmo or I going to build enough heat in our inserts to warrant the trans fluid? Maybe not. But if its there then there's no need to worry bout it. I've never had any sort of problem doing it. So it's just part of my builds to add trans fluid.

[TenafterFive]

And yes. I would shave. Lil more off the diameter of that bottom piece to make sure it's registering into the bottom of the tube.

[jaredperry]

I recently had the same issue with my inserts.  I just put a large tight fitting O ring around the upper portion of the insert and worked it into the strut tube. I also ended up just using the OEM strut cap.

[ProjectFeint]

X2 on shaving the bottom cap more

[KlassicMotion]

DatMo, when you are test fitting these, are you tightening the cap (gland) nut on before testing the wiggle?  In the end, it needs to be torqued down.  The book says the oe cap should be torqued to 47 ftlbs. But your insert should be pretty snug with the nut finger tight.

[KlassicMotion]

Trans fluid around the shock is basically a liquid catalyst between the insert and the shock tube to help keep it cool. If you run shocks hard enough they build heat and the pocket of air has nowhere to disperse the heat to. I've been doing it since forever. Is Datmo or I going to build enough heat in our inserts to warrant the trans fluid? Maybe not. But if its there then there's no need to worry bout it. I've never had any sort of problem doing it. So it's just part of my builds to add trans fluid.

 

My new inserts came with a new vented nut for the hot air to excape.

 

You know, I could wear a condom when having sex with my wife because "It couldn't hurt to have extra protection", but that's not going to happen!! :rofl:

 

That said, you've changed my mind.  I suppose next time I have my struts off I will drop a little fluid down the tube.  But for me, I also like the added benefit of oil in the tube to stop any oxidation.

[q-tip]

My that escalated quickly.....

[KlassicMotion]

I don't think it makes much difference either way.  And, un-like some of the guys on here, I'm open minded.  Give me good cause to change my mind, and I will.

 

****Sorry, I read "escalated" as something entirely different...pertaining to me changing my mind ****

 

I just thought a little humor would be good.  And my mind flutters between two things.... as evident