VK56de into a 510 Question

[Kazumi_510]

Hey guys I've been kicking around the idea of putting a V8 into my 510 and before everyone gets all hot and bothered, I picked up a 69"' 510 that one of the previous owners went ahead and cut a huge hole in the firewall and ditched the trans. tunnel. My thought is they were going to turn her into a drag car which is cool i guess to each his own but they did the cutting and didnt follow through with it so i'm left with a clean bodied 510 Flintstones-mobile. So I can go ahead and install the patch panel that was included in the purchase and install an SR I have laying around or take this some what rare opportunity and maybe do a RB swap (but its quite heavy for what it is) or LS, 1UZ, or my favorite nissan choice the VK56. So enough with the back story I was just curious of any known draw backs with the VK, I havent taken any measurements but it does seem to be a bit wide. I have seen it done in an S130 so it raises my hopes. Any feed back would be awesome and if you don't agree then don't reply not looking to start a gay ass flame war of opinions/egos. Thanx guys  

[Tristin]

My first bit of feedback would be to make a proper introduction... your first post talking about a ginormous V8 swap and a "gay ass flame war" probably isnt the right first step. You have first hand knowledge of people trying to fit large engines into 510s and failing. 

 

Who are you? What tools do you have? Whats your experience? How deep are your pockets?

 

 

 

Theres the old adage that anything can be done with time and money, but there comes a point where its not even worth it anymore. I highly doubt there would be enough room to fit that large of a V8. Most V8s in 510s are small blocks... 

 

I would suggest fixing the tunnel and just putting the SR in it if youre dead set on a swap. By the time you fix the damage from the cutting, buy a VK, make all the custom one-off bracketry, you could be driving a completed and built SR 510. Not a years long $20K VK paper weight. 

[72240z]

Awesome 1st post lmao

[INDY510]

All those motors sound like a bad idea, the whole project sounds over your head .... :rofl: .... what would we have to do to get you into a Honda today???

[flatcat19]

I wouldn't go with any of those motors.

 

Plenty of other proper options. VG, VGDE, VQ, VH.

 

Do more homework.

[Stupid_fast]

A built KA would be just fine.

 

 

If you want a big V8, you're looking at the wrong chassis for one.

 

 

All those motors sound like a bad idea, the whole project sounds over your head .... :rofl: .... what would we have to do to get you into a Honda today???

I'm with this guy.  :hairy:

 

Civics are cool, the motors gain power by just adding stickers. 

[datzenmike]

The stock motor is about 260 pounds. Even a KA is another hundred pounds. The worst thing is adding weight specially to the front. It fucks up the beautiful handling.

 

 

How you going to stop this thing?

[Tristin]

How you going to stop this thing?

 

A brick wall. 

[Ratwagon1600]

Blah blah blah, what Tristin said!

 

Seriously dude, based on your first post here, do you have ADD?

[Kazumi_510]

Haha yea kinda the response I expected, and I'm not one for introductions. I like to to be to the point, But seriously though I have a full shop (machine shop, welders, s-load of tools) its what I do for a living and I would like to do something different (well as different as you can without machining your own engine from scratch). but after I saw the Pro Am 510 with an LS1 I thought damn because before that I would have been questioning this thought just as you guys are doing now. I have frequented this forum for the last 4 years and I have seen my fair share of dead end projects but I like to showcase my skills and I thought it might be a good opportunity. I am definitely not new to the 510 world as I have had my 72 4door for about 6 years with a successful SR swap and full race set up all built and designed by myself. I would say I'm quite a do it yourselfer but that is also a two way street because everyone is a fabricator but few are able to execute such projects and have them stay together and put thousands of miles on them for that matter.   

[Tristin]

Well then it sounds like youre already settled on it. Have fun. 

[72240z]

Well a VK56 is no ls1, the ls1 is smaller and lighter. Why not a buick 215? All alum 300lb 3.5 v8 even the hard asses here cant argue with that... 

[Kazumi_510]

On to serious business, as far as handling proper suspension set up would be a must and anything can be sorted with proper springs, geometry, and I've even been toying with a complete subframe swap front and rear, and even crazier would be to tube chassis the car but it's all about time (of course). Stopping would be accomplished by some nice 4 pot calipers maybe a a z32 donor. Just thinking out load and on a side note guys I don't mean to stir the pot and also I have seen my fair share of stupid questions asked but in my world there is no stupid questions just thoughts that I would like to bounce of other 510 enthusiasts.

[Kazumi_510]

I'm not heart set on the VK I would on first thought like to keep it in the family and I do realize that an LS1 is a tight package but its been done time and time again not hatin though I just like to be unique and having a 510 achieves that first of all but I like to take things a step further.

[Tristin]

I dont think I can name more than 2 LS powered 510s... I think the consensus is that youre going to have a hell of a time fitting that VK in the car, even with your fancy shop. Before you start making any plans, why dont you sign up on a Titan forum or something and ask for dimensions. 

[Kazumi_510]

Yea I hear ya or I was thinking of going to the JY to measure and see if was even going to be worth it which the more I do research they kinda shoe horn the VK's into 240's and those engine bays are so much larger. I mean I looked at some 510's with the RB swap and thought holy S**T it fits but just so. I just like to think out there but if I was going to do a V8 swap into a 510 which LT1's have been done since the dawn of time, It would be more likely that I would go with the 1UZ at about 4-450lbs but i'm only about 2% sold on the whole V8 idea. I mean If it was me and I saw someone with a cutting wheel going to the firewall I would probably smack it outta their hand and say that's a bad thought and get it outta their head but unfortunately that decision has already been made for me and I will most likely take the time to patch in the firewall. When the time gets closer I will definitely post pics of the before and after. At the very least I will be happy to keep another 510 outta the scrapyard on the road smokin' the vettes and mustangs it comes up against like her sister does already. 

[Kazumi_510]

At any rate I appreciate the feedback however positive or negative it may be. Thoughts are thoughts and some are meant to be just that. Last thing I want to do is perform a hack swap and have it end up on CL sayin "time to sell, lost interest, my loss is your gain" lol. I'm sure most of our cars at some point in their lives have had some sort of unfinished tom foolery done to them before they ended up in the right hands of people who respect them and would like to put their own twist on them while still making them road worthy classics with modern flair.

[EricJB]

There are a few here that have swapped V8's from another brand into a Z car, myself included. While it sounds like a lot of fun to drive, If you are a Datsun enthusiast, it kind of loses it's appeal. It's not really a Datsun anymore. It's a mutation.

Funny how all my friends, coworkers, and even Candi cant figure out why I would rather race a ratty ass LZ 4 cylinder truck, when I have a freshly painted V8 Z car collecting dust.

When I got it, it was a $200.00 wrecked parts car with no running gear and scrap metal inside up to the windows. That is how I justified it.

 

I had to go out and buy another Z just to have one with a Datsun motor in it. Trust me, it's not the same.

 

  

[erichwaslike]

I have a full shop (machine shop, welders, s-load of tools) its what I do for a living...... I would say I'm quite a do it yourselfer but that is also a two way street because everyone is a fabricator but few are able to execute such projects and have them stay together and put thousands of miles on them for that matter.   

 

 

worst statement iver heard from someone that claims to "do this for a living" comments like that are what give people the courage to go buy a harbor frieght welder and cut off wheel and start cutting rust free rare datsun to do extreme body mods with nor actual skill, start making there own suspension setups with no under standing of instant centers, roll center, anti squat, ackerman, bumb steer, caster , camber, proper shcok location, or effective shock angle and how it decreesed dramaticlly the more angle you put on it just to name a few things.... not everyone is a fabricator. i used o spend day after day working on hack job sand cars that people built trying to fix them, some coming from well known shops that have a huge name in the industry  simply caue the stufflooks flashy and they claim its built right. i know thatt a lil off topic but that comment just struck a cord with me... everyone thinking they are a fabricator is what makes it hard for me to get a customer to spend the 1400 on a full cage or 800 on a fully tig welded stainless mandrel bent exhaust becasue they can spend the same amount on cheap tools and material and build a cage with a "smash bender" for exhaust and show up at the track in a car that will hurt them in a crash more than save them.... ive given customers quotes only to see their car months later completed in their own garage and it is just garbage.....just cause you buy the tools doesnt mean you can  do it, and i know you said that, but alot of guys are gonna skip that line cause you already told them they are a fabricator...

 

/rant

 

 

btw anyone know how a 510 handles with a 80% weight biasing to the front coming into a corner?.......

[JNHEscher]

If you VK, I'll be watching like a hawk and bouncing ideas.  I'm scratching my head with the VK idea in a 620.  Mind you, it would be a VK with a Z06 T56 rear-mounted tranny for the weight distribution.  Being a bit different is king in my head, whether or not it takes more doing.

[MikeRL411]

If you want a crazy overpowered V8 swap without the inevitable front end bias go hog wild!  Use a "dune buggy" modified Oldsmobile Toronado drive train and kiss your trunk goodby!  Put the radiator up front in the current location to confuse observers.

[Tristin]

Man, this thread is getting even better. Now were putting a VK in a 620... perfect. 

[datzenmike]

Hey guys I've been kicking around the idea of putting a V8 into my 510

 

So I can go ahead and install the patch panel that was included in the purchase and install an SR I have laying around

 

or take this some what rare opportunity and maybe do a RB swap (but its quite heavy for what it is)

 

or LS,

 

1UZ,

 

or my favorite nissan choice the VK56.

 

Any feed back would be awesome and if you don't agree then don't reply not looking to start a gay ass flame war of opinions/egos. Thanx guys  

.

 

Talk about name dropping.

 

The only sensible V8 is the all aluminum Buick/Olds 215.  Not reallyy powerful but it's light and small won't fuck up the handling much and you get the V8 sound.

 

SR (20?) This makes the most sense. It fits, makes good hp (more than the V8) and is well documented so a good chance of actually getting this finished. And that's probably the only reason NOT to do it... is that it's been done to death.

 

LS (1?) All aluminum V8? Close to 200 pounds of extra weight over the front end. Extensive modifications to body. I'd pass on this.

 

IUz...  :rofl:  I'm sure they are a nice engine......... in a Toyota.

 

VK56.

 

On to serious business, as far as handling proper suspension set up would be a must and anything can be sorted with proper springs, geometry,

.

No it can't!!!! No amount of springs and geometry will correct for inertia and make a VK 510 handle like a stock one can. There's a reason a VK is in in a Titan.... it the only thing big enough to haul it around.

 

 

On top of everything else... at a minimum you are tripling the HP so you will want to triple the braking power also

[Kazumi_510]

All the ranting aside... I'm going to take some measurements of the 510 engine bay and see where I stand just outta curiosity, and I'll post the measurements. The reason why I started this topic was to explore the options of utilizing someone's horrible decision and maybe to figure out what direction to go. I assure you guys that if I decide to go ahead with this thought I will definitely keep you in the loop. It definitely won't be done with a harbor freight mind set because I have gotten my fair share of fixing other people's mistakes be it restoration or hack job dune buggy projects under my belt. I'm not out to step on people's egos just honestly trying to bounce a unique idea (that I haven't found much resource on) off some like minded gear heads not be an outlet for ridicule, again if you don't agree don't reply because there is already enough of a slough of s**t info available online. That's what brought me here a place for people that have the same level of appreciation and taste for yester-years Japanese hot rods. I appreciate the serious inquiries and it would be crazy to set up a datsun with a rear trans axle set up like a 928 or 944 Porsche (I forget I always get them mixed up) and I've seen the buick 8 done with pretty cool results IMO. A V8 into a 620 would be awesome that would sure have that underestimated feel to it as the guy who just dropped 60K on some terd just got smoked by a 35+ year old car, Love it.  I have all these power plant swap options floating around my head and I'm not against doing another SR20det swap, or even a 13B-RE or REW swap (for a change of pace) could utilize the cut tunnel because I'm not 100% but I thought the trans. tunnel needs some re-thinking with the rotary. I have even thought about the re-location idea but not as drastic as putting it in the trunk. I was thinking more along the lines of placing the engine back in the chassis 6-12" or so.   

[Kazumi_510]

So the plot thickens I knew the VK56 was heavy but WTF 100lbs shy of an LS1 motor set...wow. Also I was surprised to find that the VG30DETT which has been successfully swapped into a 510 (with alot of will and Crisco) is actually quite heavy for a V6. Obviously these number will be up for debate but this is what a quick search yielded in the way of common power plants. 

 

LS1+T56= 609lbs

VK56de alone= 502lbs dry....yikes

1UZ alone= 390lbs

KA24de alone= 371lbs

Rb20-26 alone= around 400lbs depending on options

L18 alone= 118 kg 260 lbs

QR25DE alone= 121 kg 267 lbs

CA18DET alone= 128 kg 282 lbs

SR20DE alone= 139 kg 306 lbs

SR20DET alone= 149 kg 328 lbs

FJ20ET alone= 166 kg 366 lbs (205 hp)

VQ30 or VQ35 alone = 313lbs

VG30DETT alone= 610lbs