Schneider Cam vs. Delta Cam

[510SSS]

Hey all, I talked to Schneider about doing a regrind of my L-series B cam, I was talking to their tech and he recommended that I go with a 270-280 grind with a .460 lift. They said the total kit with springs and retainers would be about $330. I then talked to Delta cams through my machinist and they recommended that I use a 282 duration .450 lift cam and they would grind it from forged material not from billet, and I would not need to send in my cam.

 

Now I have heard some things about delta cams such as they are just a distributor for old comp cams and some of their stuff is of lower quality. Can anyone vouch for this from personal experience delta vs. schneider vs. others? The same setup from Delta sounds like it would be around $290 for the whole kit, so not too much different in price. Which cam company do you guys think that I should go with?

 

I am running a 2.1 ltr. long rod l20b with dual su's and 10:1 compression, 280zx in/ex valves, custom header 2 1/4in pipe, daily driver, which cam do you guys would work best with this setup, or do you guys recommend a different one? Do you guys think it will take that much longer to send in my L20b cam to have it reground by schneider, or should I just settle for the cam from delta? I really dont understand lift very well, would a higher lift have the capacity for more hp gains?

 

After reading a bunch about the how the cam is the brain of the engine, I want to make sure I have the optimum cam setup in order to take advantage of all the mods that I have made.

 

-Thanks Alot

Edited June 25, 2013 by 510SSS

[Sealik]

Anything over a 270 duration for a DD would be somewhat of a bitch.

That said...all relative to rear diff ratio etc.

Increase lift/'grind' to 490ish....  if .....they can supply you with the appropriate springs, retainers and lash pads

 

My cam is the Shadbolt 260/.491....VG  DD.... :w00t:

LZ23 with 46 SUs has no hesitation between 2200-6500 when I throttle it......even in fifth gear. ... :sneaky:

 4.38s of course.

 

Every 10 degrees of duration bumps the power band up approx. 500 RPM......

[datzenmike]

Engine strength is built into the block/pistons/rods/crank. Engine power is made by the head. The more air you can get in and out, the more power is made. Call this breathing. Look at the head as the orchestra and the cam the conductor. The cam says when to open and close valves and for how long. In theory, if you had a head with infinite breathing, doubling your RPMs would double you output. 40 HP at 2K is 80 at 4K is 160 at 8K. All motors breath fairly good at low speeds because there is lots of time for the air to flow in and fill the cylinder. At 8K a cylinder fills 66.6 times a second so the higher you rev the less time to fill. Opening the valve wider (higher lift) is a good thing. For a street motor it doesn't change the duration or overlap drastically, so low speeds are still good and at high speeds more air can get in. 

[510SSS]

I have stock 3.9 rear gear, 38mm SU's, 8lb os giken flywheel, I am building this long rod to rev, Total Seal Chromoly Rings/ Z22e 88mm bore pistons, fully balanced rotating assembly, etc if that is any help. OK mike so If I get a cam with more lift but more or less the same duration then it will make more power? Anyone know about Delta vs. Schneider, I need to make the decision on my cam tormarrow so they can order it, because my motor is already being built at my local machine shop. I am really leaning toward schneider, because I had a good experience talking to them. However if it takes as much as 4 weeks for the regrind, then perhaps I should just use the delta. Has anyone used multiple types of cams and let me in on which made the most power/were the most durable.

[Sealik]

Schneider with a .460 lift......????....not a hell of a lot more than stock

Duration at 280 (?) with 3.90s will suck for a DD

 

Highway or city?

[datzenmike]

Stock L20B is 0.413" at the valve. 248 duration but this is likely not at the 0.050" lift most are measured at.

 

 

Opening the valves more should help the breathing when really revved up.

[Sealik]

What about Isky????

I'm sure they have a cam with lift near .500/280-90 duration

And could supply you with all the extras.

 

 

More lift...more air/fuel....moar power

Duration just raises the RPM bar so to speak....non conducive for a typical DD

 

But....that is good for a ......"fully balanced rotating assembly, etc"

 

Might feel a little sluggish behind a senior citizen at the helm of a Rambler and or in down town traffic....lol

[510SSS]

I mainly drive on the highway/long straight aways of about 40-50mph (some twistys of course) to get to work and back so thats how I'll usually drive it. I live out in the country so I don't mind a little bit of nasty manners in the city cause i dont drive around town too often. The valves have been opened up with the larger seats, with some valve unshrouding and swirl polish, so it should breath up top very well. I should prolly get a long tube header for high rpm, right now I have the Race Tep, Shorty ceramic coated straight into 2 1/4 pipe. Hmm ISKY would be a good option as well I will have to call them tormarrow along with schneider and see if I can get a more agressive grind done without sacrificing lower end torque too much. How about Colt cam's in Canada, has anyone ever used them? I hear their 445 grind is a beast. Any more in depth info on Delta anyone know about wait times on new grinds vs. regrinds? Is the material that delta uses any good? My machinist said it was forged but I am still doubtful.

[Sealik]

Colt and Shadbolt have pretty good reviews and have supplied many a cam north of the border

I'll probably ship my next cam to them and get the .507 lift/445 grind....but with a little less duration

 

Jason

Senior Member

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• Senior Member
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Posted 10 April 2010 - 05:55 PM

'datzenmike', on 10 Apr 2010 - 4:21 PM, said:

Would depend on the cam specs.

Shadbolt and Colt both marked the end of the cam with the designation. As for the specs lets see:


445 Profile: 
Duration: 280 degrees (30-70-70-30) 
Overlap: 60 degrees 
Lift: 0.507” at the valve 
"Good for about 7200 rpm max" 
Works well with Roadster valve springs 

449 Profile: 
Duration: 256 degrees 
Overlap: xx degrees 
Lift: 0.492” at the valve 
"...?..." 

651 Profile: 
Duration: 296 degrees (38-78-78-38) 
Overlap: 76 degrees 
Lift: 0.487” at the valve 
"I never liked the #651, because it's numerically almost identical to a worn out 445 with it's lobe tip worn off, so pick either a #445 or a #780 instead" - G.B. from Colt Cams 

780 Profile: The Datsun Radial Challenge Cam (DRC) 
Duration: 304 degrees (44-80-80-44) 
Overlap: 88 degrees 
Lift: 0.522” at the valve 
"Should be good for more than 8000 rpm easily" 
Cam oiling spray bar should be used, along with some serious valve springs 

721 Profile: (purported to be a copy of Racer-Brown #391-R, pg. 54 of the later Steve Smith book.) 
306 degrees duration (45-81-81-45) 
Overlap: 90 degrees! (yeowch!, that's racy!) 
Lift: 0.582” at the valve 
Cam oiling spray bar MUST be used, along with max effort valve springs, and maybe even lightweight spring retainters 

TURBO 445I-9E Profile: Ground as #445 on the intake, and #449 on the exhaust 
Intake = 280 degrees @ .507 lift 
Exhaust = 256 degrees @ .492 lift 
Total Overlap : 48 degrees (VERY low overlap) 
Lash: 0.008” Intake, 0.012” Exhaust 
"...has very low overlap, early exhaust opening and intake closing..."

Enjoy ...

[DISLEXICDIME]

get a damb cam

[ddrum]

I'm guessing a .460 lift would be a good mild cam for stock L20B DD.

[EricJB]

In previous threads here about cams, one thing seems to be a constant. Delta cams profiles don't measure up. One theory (or fact) is that they are ground based on 1.65 rocker arms. Datsun is closer to 1.5.  

I have also heard that the aftermarket blanks most companies use aren't as good as the stock Datsun cores. So you will want to send them a genuine core.

 

I spent some time weighing the options between Schnieder and Iskendarian. The Schnieder advertised powerbands for their cams seemed a bit optimistic. When I contacted Isky, they were shut down for the holidays, and I was told there would be a bit of a backlog when they returned. The regrind cost $125.00 (my core), and I also ordered springs and retainers. It only took a couple weeks for them to ship it back.

 

The cam I ran in 2012 was a Delta .490 lift/ .290 duration. The Isky cam for 2013 is .530/ .306, and is waaaay  chunkier than the Delta. And their advertised powerband was about right.

 I may try a Schnieder in the future, And I am very happy with Isky, but I wont buy another Delta. Just my .02  

[banzai510(hainz)]

When measuring a Delta its not as advertised.

I had bought 3 of these 450lift cams and took them home/ they measered about .390 to .410 using a mic. measuring 90deg then figure valve lash minus that and you have about the stock lift. Duration seemd like it was longer.

 

L motors like Lift!!!!!

 

tell Delta about this next time you call them.

I gave 3 cores and got 3 regrinds and this was about 15 years ago and it was about $120 for all 3.

I gacve 2 of them away already. I use them to ck for a straight head in the cam towers.

 

You might be getting one of my cores. If you do order. If they measure the cam then fine. I guess they are OK cause alot of people use them. key is use new or resurfaced rocker arms.

 

Some aussies on Ozdat liked the Schneider. I have a Schneider and was new core and seems fine. Its a 460lift 260in/270exhaust. seems fine to me with a 32/36 or 38/38 so I think bigger would be a better option also. as really I think this cam should have come stock !!!!!!!!

 

475 to about 480 is getting to the Bind limit on the inner springs . So really depends what you want and cost.

Webcamshafts also has soem grinds but as Schneider they only do regrinds now.

I dont know about Isky but NissanMottorsport might have old stock)(isky)

[510SSS]

Ok I am thinking about going with the schneider 274F cam, it has 480 lift and sounds around like what I am trying to go for. Is this a asymetrical grind?, do you think this would move the power band up too much and I should stay with a less agressive grind? I think i will get all aftermarket springs and keepers from them as well. do you guys think this would make good power for a daily driver 510?

[banzai510(hainz)]

I think youll be fine .

You you need power sooner put to #2 on sprocket or # 3

 

sidedrafts would grest help also

[510SSS]

Thanks for all the advice, cam is on it's way to San Diego for the Regrind at Schneider. I hope this works the way I want it too, I think that my machinist can degree in the cam, I am going to get an adjustable cam sprocket so different adjustments in timing can be used. Ya I wanna get some Webers or Mikunis eventually but I like the 25mpg of the SU's for now.

[datsun 160J SSS]

Good info guys .

[florida510]

Can some one please explain what will be the best adjustment for a 280. Cam Valve Lash adjustment to be use on a L20B with 86mm Flat Pistons. 

 

Hey Guys, what will be the best Valve Lash for Intake and Exhaust if I'm using a 280 Duration cam on a 86 MM Flat Top Piston with a Webber 38.

[datzenmike]

If an aftermarket cam, use the makers recommended lash settings. Otherwise the L valves are

 

Intake...... 0.010" HOT

Exhaust... 0.012" HOT

 

The duration, flattops and Weber don't really affect the lash setting.