Lowering a '74 B210 4 Door - rear shocks?

[B210ratsun]

Tsapala - this is very true... 510's did not come with a 6cly. motor at all that was certainly a mistake on my part for mentioning that earlier in the thread. I am not sure why only some parts are different and not others, I was simply trying to offer some kind of explanation. The difference with the Idler is the 510 has a hole and the B210 has a stud, which makes the center link different so the 510 has 2 studs on the Center Link and the B210 only has one. They are both the same length or really damn close, and have very similar bends in the same places. The steering box is the main difference which is maybe why the Center Link and Idler are different. Again just speculation on my part. 

[SlammedSunny]

the steering box is the same, a B210 box can be used as a replacement for a 510 box, or vise versa, I have a 510 box in my B210 with a brace as well. :)

[B210ratsun]

I might just have to do that too, it seems like my box is not right. I tightened it and its still a little wobbly. Can't find a B210 one anywhere.

 

My turning issue issue was fixed by replacing a bad ball joint. Which when it came off bent the tie rod. Castor was set back to 2.0 degrees and turn in is SOOO much better, NO UNDER STEER... YAY! I will be getting 55 series tires next week. The TTT suspension has held up VERY WELL. I have driven the shit out of this thing a few times, getting airborn over crests and having the front tires a minimum of 12 inches off the ground. And I still had over an inch of compression travel once I hit pavement. Koni's aren't the best but damn they can take a beating. I am using 250lb. 5in springs, TTT can help out with rates if anyone needs assistance choosing their own. 

 

The rear end has still not been lowered yet as I was waiting for the inevitable to happen. And it has, the diff gave out. So now I am sourcing a 510 goon (H190) rear end and will lower the car on that once it is rebuilt with treated gears. Weber 32/36 + H145 Diff = Bad News.

 

Gonna do the 5-speed swap too and get a lightened drive shaft made. It has more than enough power to get to 100+ but seems like it tops out at about 92-93 mph with the 4-speed and H145. Anyone have a guess as to what an A-Series 5-speed and H190 from a goon will get me? 105-110? Does anyone know how much heavier the H190 will be compared to the H145? (I will be swapping the WHOLE axle and diff.)

[datsunfreak]

Anyone have a guess as to what an A-Series 5-speed and H190 from a goon will get me? 105-110? 

 

Torque is what you need. Changing those things will not effect top speed, only lower your cruising RPMs. A typical A-series engine will go faster in 4th than in 5th...

 

 

Does anyone know how much heavier the H190 will be compared to the H145? (I will be swapping the WHOLE axle and diff.)

 

About 40 pounds. 

[datzenmike]

Measure first. The 510 axle is likely wider than the B-210.

 

Positive caster angle increases the cars ability to return to straight ahead steering coming out of a turn if the steering wheel is released. It reduces wandering and improves straight ahead steering at high speed, thus used in racing. Low speed turning and parking steering effort is increased though.

 

Understeer is the front tires loosing traction and making a wider turn than the road they are on.  All cars are designed with a small amount of understeer as this is considered the easiest to correct for. Understeer is scary and the natural reaction is....  let off gas, hit brakes, weight shifts to the front, increases traction... car turns. Yes a stiffer sway bar will limit body roll but it will also increase understeer far above what was designed into the car. A stiffer bar will cause the car to plow into a corner and want to go straight ahead if forced hard enough. This can be countered by many things including a matching increase or addition of a rear sway bar which will increase oversteer or basically helps to cancel out some understeer.  Keep in mind that every thing changed, affects every thing else.

[datsunfreak]

Measure first. The 510 axle is likely wider than the B-210.

 

 

1 7/8" wider in fact.   :thumbup:

[thatdirtykid]

Any updates? Maybe some oics?

[B210ratsun]

Hey guys, I have had to put the car in storage until I can get a shop to help me out with the build. The earliest time I can bring it in to get started is the end of this month. I will keep you guys posted but it still may be a few weeks because a drive shaft will have to be made and that is going to take at least 5-6 weeks.

[Dguy210]

Gonna do the 5-speed swap too and get a lightened drive shaft made. It has more than enough power to get to 100+ but seems like it tops out at about 92-93 mph with the 4-speed and H145. Anyone have a guess as to what an A-Series 5-speed and H190 from a goon will get me? 105-110? Does anyone know how much heavier the H190 will be compared to the H145? (I will be swapping the WHOLE axle and diff.)

 

I used a '78 B210 rear end (H150) when I replaced mine, so that might be another option. Would do 110 with a 4 speed and a freshly rebuilt A13, had it up to 127 once....so that might be another option. The 510 wagon rear-end is a direct bolt-in (need new rubber bits for the bottom of the shock) on the 1200 if you have the wagon shockmounts so I can't imagine it being any harder on the B210. The extra width honestly seemed trivial.

[B210ratsun]

Nice! I am really happy to hear that the shop should not have too much trouble with this. They are still a bit skeptical of the ease I have claimed but I think that is too be expected when doing something you have not done before. I am currently trying to sell two other cars I have, once they are gone I will put the B210 under the knife. Tired of paying for storage and I really want to drive it again. Nismo clutch and Kameari Flywheel and rear spring seats arrived a couple of weeks ago from Japan! I will update you guys once the stock rear end is pulled.

[B210ratsun]

The B210 is in the shop and getting the rear end and tranny swapped out this week. I will try to take pics for you guys when I can.

[thatdirtykid]

This thread is one I am happy to see bumped. I will be finishing my suspension up this winter, as well as rebuilding my a14

[B210ratsun]

Sorry for the delay of info guys, shit got crazy last year and the shop that has my car had to put the project off until the new year. With the new year comes new problems and new solutions! Here are some pics of the car in it's current state.

 

 

Its coming together and some things are changing. 5speed is out and the 4speed is going back in because the clutch and flywheel I bought are for the 4speed. I will be keeping the oem rear springs and not doing the Flexform springs. The urethane pads I got from Japan are for a 310 and not a B210. No replacement is available from Nissan even for the 510, so I have to reuse the pads that were in there, bummed. The B210 lowering blocks locator pin is too small for the 510 rearend and will need to have something made to fit. However the spring pads line up so they will not have to be cut up and rewelded. I thought the 510 wagon rearend I bought was going to come with hardware like the lower spring pads and e-brake connection but I guess they never made the trip or didn't get sent, super bummed. Now I need to find a pair of 510 wagon rear lower spring pads that have the shock mounts on them or have the shop make something custom. Custom = $$$. Anyone know where I might find a pair?

[B210ratsun]

Rearend went in today with some modification. No need for the 510 wagon lower spring pads the shop is going to fab something. Some of the bushings Whiteline has on their site for the 120y will need to be modified to fit but work, some fit perfect. Rear shackle bushings and front spring bushing fit OK all others needed boring or trimming. The pins on the springs were corroded, so the shop cleaned them up and was able to use two of the urethane pads I bought. And to solve the issue with the larger recessed hole in the 510 axle housing spring pad the shop reshaped a nylock nut that will thread onto the pin on the top of the lowering blocks. The cool ARP flywheel bolts I bought are not for the A-series, should have done more homework, will get new OEM bolts tomorrow. Here are some more pics:

 

Spring pad difference... new ones are slightly shorter and have no nipple on them.

 

Corroded pins.

 

Cleaned pins with pads.

 

Lowering block with threaded pin and the nut in the hole.

 

A bunch of stuff that I'll be selling as soon as this is all done.

[B210ratsun]

Bam!

 

 

Rough Draft

 

Ended up not using the new urethane pads... but they don't need to be in there.

 

Legit ingenuity

 

 

Just need to make a drive shaft and figure out the e-brake.

 

 

Ride height measures 21in. Front and 21 1/4in. Rear with 3in. lowering blocks. If the pin on the upper portion of the spring was a 1/4in. taller I would have been able to use the urethane pads but the mechanic errored on the side of caution and decided they were out.

[B210ratsun]

 

A better look.

 

TFB Performance did the work. Greg over there is an old Datsun factory mechanic and knows his stuff. If anyone is looking for a great, knowledgable shop for this conversion or anything else out of the norm the guys at TFB are very capable.

[B210ratsun]

Need some assistance, rear brakes are locking up when pedal is applied. Brakes are at their loosest, on adjustment.

[mttam510]

Too much rear bias.  The easiest way to adjust rearward bias would be to add a prop valve in-line to the rear axle.  Tilton and Wilwood both make a screw type which is more finite, and also a lever type which offers chunkier steps and would be more ideal for on the fly adjustments during a race (ideally your bias would be sorted via a twin master cylinder set up with a balance bar.  what is the size difference ( bore-wise) of the wheel cylinders from the B210 to the 510? This is what I would do .... http://www.hrpworld.com/store/default/lever-type-prop-valve-an3-amp-3-16-inverted-flare.html

i know of a shop that could prolly assist with the fittings and i know a dude at HRP that could prolly hook you up with a good price.

[mttam510]

....also, by brakes being at their loosest....are you referring to the shoe to drum?  like you have backed off the shoe tensioner? you shouldnt have them adjusted like that, a slightest  amount of shoe material to inner drum face is proper.  You have too much fluid going to the rear wheel cylinders......the prop valve would restrict this and alow you to shift the bias towards the front calipers.

[datzenmike]

The car is designed to be (more or less) neutral when braking. The fronts have engine weight and weight transfer forward when stopping which increases traction and prevents lock up. The rears have less weight and some of it shifts forward off the rear tires lessening traction. The B-210 does indeed have a proportioning valve that allows high pressure for the fronts but a lesser amount to the rears. It's designed in and not adjustable. So... a couple of things....

 

Lighter rear leaf springs, (80 lb)

280zx calipers and stock master cylinder. 

 

 

Your stock master has to move more volume of fluid to work the zx calipers. The diameter of the master is the same, so the travel has to increase. The pedal may seem slightly mushy or travels slightly farther before becoming firmer. This will push the rear brake piston in the master cylinder farther, also applying more rear brake than before.

 

Loosing rear weight has also upset the front/rear bias that was built in. Nothing you can do about this, loosing weight is good.

 

 

 

Possibly your proportioning valve has failed. It's directly below your wiper motor. Probably the system is just upset by the changes made. For about $50 you can get a cheap Willwood proportioning valve. Looks like your old one can be removed and the top left and top right lines joined. This is the front brake line. The proportioning valve can be placed between the bottom left and bottom right lines and bolted to the fire wall. If the threads size is not metric on the new valve just by a foot long pre made brake line and cut the fitting off and install on those lines with a flaring tool.

[B210ratsun]

Would the shims that hold the wheel cylinders in place affect the actuation of the wheel cylinders?

 

The pedal feels normal but with a lot more feel or feedback than there was originally (with the b210 stock brakes). But that was the case when just the front brakes were changed out. There is not a noticeable difference since the 510 rearend went in, pedal effort seems to be the same as before.

 

With the drums off it looks like the wheel cylinders are actuating in one direction and not releasing and not allowing the shoes to retract once the pedal is released.

[B210ratsun]

OK so I blead the brakes, that was not the problem. So instead of changing out the proportioning valve I decided to install a new 280z master in place of the b210 unit but the master would not fit with the bleeder valves attached. Stole some plugs from the b210 master and installed them on the 280z master but it leaks under no load so I need a better solution. But the brakes no longer lock up, so I guess that was the fix for that issue. It just brought up another one, fml. I love Datsun's!

[B210ratsun]

For sale, PM me if you're interested. Specs are posted in the classifieds.