Lowering a '74 B210 4 Door - rear shocks?

[B210ratsun]

Hey Guys,

 

I have a '74 B210 4 Door barn find that I am building up and I have run into an issue with the rear shocks when lowering it. I plan on just flipping the rear leaf, no problem there but all the information I have found for the shorter shock has been for a coupe as opposed to my sedan which uses a completely different type of shock. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Here is a pic of the car:

 

[Dguy210]

Hey Guys,

 

I have a '74 B210 4 Door barn find that I am building up and I have run into an issue with the rear struts when lowering it. I plan on just flipping the rear leaf, no problem there but all the information I have found for the shorter strut has been for a coupe as opposed to my sedan which uses a completely different type of strut. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Here is a pic of the car:

 

Very clean!

 

Take a look at the 1200 wiki, the setup is very similar.

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Rear_Axle

[bonvo]

its not a strut its just a shock take the shocks out and go to the parts store show them what you have and say i want them 2 inches shorter or however shorter you want them they can track it down from there

[datzenmike]

Hey Guys,

 

I have a '74 B210 4 Door barn find that I am building up and I have run into an issue with the rear struts when lowering it. I plan on just flipping the rear leaf, no problem there but all the information I have found for the shorter strut has been for a coupe as opposed to my sedan which uses a completely different type of strut. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Here is a pic of the car:

 

.

Don't flip a leaf. This uses one spring to cancel another and some stiffness will be lost and the car sags lower. The last thing you want is a softer spring on a lowered car. If anything you want even stiffer so it does not bottom out. Get 2" or 3" lowering blocks, car sits lower but the spring is unaffected. I bought a new '76 B210 in the day and also had a '76 coupe a few years later.

[Zeek90]

all kinds of lowering blocks fit in the rear? my 77 b210 hatch has the same setup

[datsunfreak]

.

Get 2" or 3" lowering blocks, car sits lower but the spring is unaffected.

 

And then you don't need shorter shocks either.   ;)

 

all kinds of lowering blocks fit in the rear? my 77 b210 hatch has the same setup

 

All the generic blocks fit. Most of the long shackles that come in the lowering "kit" are too large for the small diameter Datsun axle, but there are some kits out there with smaller shackles. 

[datzenmike]

I have an H-165 and at last Canby I got a set of blocks and U bolts for an H-190 truck. ($10) I just Hammered the U bolts together slightly. Fit was perfect.

[Zeek90]

And then you don't need shorter shocks either. ;)

 

 

All the generic blocks fit. Most of the long shackles that come in the lowering "kit" are too large for the small diameter Datsun axle, but there are some kits out there with smaller shackles.

 

oh ok thank you. i thought they would fit.. 3inch drop would be nice

[Zeek90]

I have an H-165 and at last Canby I got a set of blocks and U bolts for an H-190 truck. ($10) I just Hammered the U bolts together slightly. Fit was perfect.

cant go wrong with 10 dollars. and they fit perfectly also.. ima get some

[B210ratsun]

thanks for the info guys. I think I'm just going to get the springs re-arched and maybe make a new set of shackles for them if I don't like the stance. Seems like Camero shocks will work OK in the rear. Now I just need to find new bushings for the rear upper mounts. Does anyone know where I can pick these up?

 

Picking up some wheels tomorrow. I will post pics once they are safe back at home inside and locked up! 

[B210ratsun]

Here are the wheels....

 

 

Hayashi Bomber 14x6 +13

All four are in near perfect condition, just need to come apart get buffed, new hardware and re-paint. I cannot wait to mount these! I have a shit ton of parts on their way from front and rear swaybars to 280zx brakes and Pitroad parts are being made and TTT parts will get ordered soon. 

[Kirden]

Very nice, just drop those by my place. You know they would look amazing on my green 4 door :devil:

 

I'm following this topic as well. I know that I don't want to do IRS or coils/link system, but I too am intrested in lowering my B210. I will most likely remove the leafs and get all the measurements then send an order to flex form for a 2-3" drop with higher spring rate. Glad to know that the camero shocks will work. Thats what I used on my old B2200 and they were great. Another good thing is that the camero is heavier, so even stock replacements for it should have a better dampening rate than the stock B210 ones.

 

Edit: gonna drop this right here

 

http://flex-form.com/products.asp

 

[B210ratsun]

Thanks Kirden... yah I can't do that...haha. They look so beautiful I can not wait to put them on  :hyper: I'm freaking out!

 

So I've been amassing these parts and it seems the cross bar I ordered had a cross threaded end and both tie rods too, one end on each are messed up. And it seems new 280zx brake hardware is near impossible to find. Might have a hook on some tomorrow, we'll see. Addco forgot to send my rear bar, waiting for a response from them. Still debating on which adjustable lower control arm I want to use. Aluminum or Steal? Opinions...? I will not be rallying, well no off road rallying. Although the car still needs to be able to traverse off road.

 

I've been doing some research on Flex-Form rear fiberglass springs. They seem almost too good to be true (1 year warranty aside... pretty sparse). Loosing 70+lbs. out of the rear seems like it might cause some issues if some weight was not removed from the front too (easy tail slides in the rain?). Will a 1200 hood fit? If not does anyone know of a decently made fiberglass hood on the market? I found a lot for the 510, nothing for a b210.

 

This is in reference to the nominal weight of a full rear spring set from my car (probably around 80lbs - 40 a side) vs. the 8lb. (per side) spring from flex form. I saw the thread on the 510 goon but, is there another thread out there that gets a bit deeper into this? I have not yet called them to see about price or availability. It just seems like an ideal way to bring the ass end down with proper spring rate and loose some weight at the same time. Opinions...? 

 

Sorry for all the questions guys. I think I would be lost in the woods for years with out Ratsun!

[B210ratsun]

OK guys, finally lowered the front! Rear still needs to get done. What do you guys think?

 

 

 

 

Redid the whole front suspension and steering and brakes. TTT 280zx / 510 Coilovers (Koni Yellows), Radius Rods, Lower Control Arms, Roll Center Adjustment, and he made me some metal bushings for my camber plates. Camber plates are Pitroad B110 plates (these come with 8mm studs as opposed to 10mm studs the B210 uses stock) but fit perfectly with no grinding, drilling or reshaping. The Koni shocks have a bit larger pins on them than stock, 14mm vs 12mm so the Pitroad pillow ball nut would not work. Used the bushings TTT made me and the supplied nuts that came with the TTT coilovers. Had to make my own bushings out of nylon tubing for the camber plate studs (since they are 8mm and not 10mm) Some heavy gauge washers for proper fitment and it fits nice with no movement. I will eventually take out the 8mm studs, drill and install 10mm studs in the future. I used Pitroad B110 steering arms drilled for the 280zx coilover conversion but had to drill the mounting hole where the tie rod fits in, to 14mm, as it was only 11.8mm and I really needed 14.4mm. The front brake line on the passenger side was completely frozen and was my largest issue with this as it had to be removed in order to drop the front suspension. Everything else went pretty smooth and besides taking apart the suspension and putting it back together several times to get the fitment right it was pretty easy too. It would be much easier with a buddy or two and would be about 12-20 hours faster as it took me about 50 hours to complete and be driveable. Put on an Addco aftermarket larger front sway bar (this thing is MASSIVE). The brackets had to be cut and longer bolts are needed which are not supplied as well as washers which are also not supplied. The car was dipped so harshly in the front after everything was installed it was VERY difficult to drive, fender rub was a bitch even with 2 degrees or more of camber and the wheels are 14x6 with a +10 offset. I had to use a 10mm spacer in the front as well because the 3-piece whee nuts were hitting the 280zx calipers. Also a string alignment is super necessary to get the toe as close as possible which will add an additional couple of hours. Had to set the ride height to the max as high as possible in order to get one full turn of the wheel. It still about 3 inches lower. Brakes are remand 280zx stock calipers with braided lines slotted rotors and some no name performance pads I got for dirt cheap. It certainly stops better than before and I did not change the booster or master cylinder although I may do that in the future. The car is WAY WAY smoother on the freeway at speeds up to 85. It accelerates better, brakes and handles better so very much worth the investment in time and parts.

 

I am having several issues though and need a bit of assistance. So the caster angle is currently set at 1.5 degrees positive caster and I read that 1200's stock is 3 degrees positive caster and race cars use 4+ degrees but I've also read not to go over 7 degrees. Since this is my first rear wheel drive car I have owned I am new to positive caster and what is a good setting. Any sort of assistance with a number it should be set at would be awesome guys! The car seems to turn dramatically in some instances and has damn near caused me to have a heart attack a couple of times. Right now the camber is set to 1.5 degrees and toe is -0.1 and castor is positive 1.5 degrees.

 

Also my rear toe is strange and I could not find an adjustment for it. It currently is -.36 on the drivers side and +.32 on the passenger side. Where do I find an adjustment for the rear toe?

[datsunfreak]

OK guys, finally lowered the front! Rear still needs to get done. What do you guys think?

 

 

I love it.   :thumbup:

 

Are those 185/60-14s? Ever give any thought to a smaller size, like a 185/55-14?

[datsunfreak]

 

So the caster angle is currently set at 1.5 degrees positive caster and I read that 1200's stock is 3 degrees positive caster and race cars use 4+ degrees but I've also read not to go over 7 degrees. 

 

As you go lower you will lose caster. Adding some (at least back to stock) is a good idea. Going too far will make it understeer like crazy. 

 

The car seems to turn dramatically in some instances and has damn near caused me to have a heart attack a couple of times. 

 

That's a consequence of not running enough caster.   ;)

 

Also my rear toe is strange and I could not find an adjustment for it. It currently is -.36 on the drivers side and +.32 on the passenger side. Where do I find an adjustment for the rear toe?

 

It's a straight axle. There's no way to set the rear toe. It isn't adjustable.  :bye:

 

Of course you could disassemble the axle housing, heat and bend the tubes to straighten them, then reassemble? But that's a big job, and without a proper jig to do it in, you'll never get it right. Those readings are probably within factory spec, and if they are not your axle housing is probably bent slightly.

[Kirden]

Wow that front suspension setup sounds great. Do you happen to have a part number or source for that Addco sway bar? I'm very slowly gathering parts for my B210 so I figure while I'm replacing all of the bushings/seals/hoses/ect, may as well do a few upgrades :)

 

According to the 1200 wiki, B210s use 610 front suspension, which is similar to 510 front suspension, but I didn't know if a 510 sway bar would fit/could be made to fit.

[B210ratsun]

They are 185/65-14's and I also had to beat the fenders in because the roll I put on it wasn't good enough and kept unrolling on bumps, the tire would catch and then it would rub and I was not trying to cut a tire down. After raising the car it does not rub at all even with it as low as it is. 

 

I thought the caster had something to do with the turning giving me a heart attack, good to know! I will have to check the service manual for the alignment specs, getting it redone on Saturday. I think I will probably run 3 to 3.5 degrees. 

 

No rear toe adjustment.... ok.... mmmmm??? Shims?

 

If I replace the leaf spring bushings would it change the toe at all? Maybe even?

I have the bushings just need to install them but am not going to do that until I pull the rear leafs in a few weeks. Just curious. 

 

The front addco bar is #873 and the rear is #304 both are performance bars and are larger than stock. The B210 as opposed to the 210 uses mostly early 68-73 510 components such as radius rods, tie rods (smaller ends), lower control arms, and sway bar I have found the part numbers to be different but the parts to be the same. Which is normal for an auto manufacture that produces more than one model of car. I used to work very closely with Mitsubishi engineers and parts people for the race team I worked for and we found to their surprise as much as mine that some parts that may cost several dollars or more could be purchased using a different part number for a lot less (sometimes $.68 for a bolt as opposed to $2.33) which is KEY when running a race team. In this case Datsun used left over parts more than likely from the 510 for the B210, 210 and 610 and maybe even the 710 as some of the steering parts look VERY similar, re-numbered them and sold them for slightly less since they were going on a lower model. The use of 510 parts on a B210 may have also been done specifically for racing purposes as BRE used the B210 starting in 1974 as opposed to the famous 510's they raced which stopped in 1973-74? But that is just speculation on my part. The steering arms are different (I think 510 arms are longer) and the center link and steering idler and steering box are different from B210 to 510. 

 

The brackets that come with the Addco kits are CRAP! and you really should make your own but they can be modified to work no problem. The stock bolts will not work with the Addco brackets so you'll need to buy new bolts they are not cheap, that are about 10-15mm longer and they are metric. And you will need to stop by the hardware store and get some washers for them and then you will have to 'trim' the washers on one side so they look like a circle with about a 1/3 cut off in a strait line. This is so the washer fits with the bracket, this is mainly due to just how freaking big this sway bar is... its as big as the one that I had on my EVO... CRAZY BIG! But it works very well.

 

Also if you want to save yourself about 3-4 hours you will install the radius rods to the chassis before trying to connect them to the control arm.  

[datsunfreak]

No rear toe adjustment.... ok.... mmmmm??? Shims?

 

If I replace the leaf spring bushings would it change the toe at all? Maybe even?

 

A mistake on my part may have been made.   :rofl:

 

Didn't realize you said one side was toed in and one side was toed out. That is fixable.  B)

 

Probably just a matter of loosening the nuts on the shackles that hold the rear end to the leaf springs, moving the axle slightly, and re-tightening them. You will probably want to do it on the alignment rack if you want it perfect.   :thumbup:

 

You should also check the bushings in the leaf springs to make sure they are not wasted. 

[B210ratsun]

OK Nice! I will definitely have to check that out. The bushings are not completely shot but should be replaced so I will do that for sure. 

 

As for the front alignment, I looked it up in the service manual and it says I am within stock spec. for the castor. Max it suggests is 2.15 degrees castor with the max camber setting of 1.4 (1.5) degrees.

 

Should I just do the stock max or maybe a little more? 

 

I was also told by a guy who used to make old school '70s hotrods that since the rake is off and the rear is higher than the front it could make the steering axis incline (or SAI) off... Do you guys think there is any validity to that? I know older cars are WAY different when it comes to suspension geometry and set up vs. today's cars (that I am used to).

[datsunfreak]

since the rake is off and the rear is higher than the front it could make the steering axis incline (or SAI) off... Do you guys think there is any validity to that? I know older cars are WAY different when it comes to suspension geometry and set up vs. today's cars (that I am used to).

 

Could also make the practical caster different than the measured caster. 

[B210ratsun]

So changed the castor to 2.25 degrees and it still has the same issue. Maxed out the castor as far as I can with out trimming the fender. It does ride better so I think more castor is the key. Going to see if the fenders can be rolled out at all but I may just end up ordering a smaller set of tires. I think that is really only going to help a little though and still may have to cut up the fenders to make the car drive like it should. 3.0 degrees is what I am going to try for next, which is a lot of tire movement towards the front of the fender.

[datsunfreak]

Instead of cutting the fender, why not just get the "correct" size tire? A 185/60-14 would rub the fender less and allow more caster?

[B210ratsun]

Yah going to get smaller front tires for sure, shopping around today and tomorrow. I think I am going to a 185/55-14 but a 60 series would be ideal. TireRack is running a closeout on the 60 series though, but if I have to run more than 1 degree of castor to fix my issue the 60's will rub for sure. Going to search for the best deal I think. 

[SlammedSunny]

 The steering arms are different (I think 510 arms are longer) and the center link and steering idler and steering box are different from B210 to 510 but that is probably due to the use of a 6 cylinder motor as opposed to a 4 cylinder motor but again that is just speculation on my part. 

 

 

I just would like to mention that NEITHER the 510 nor B210 ever came with a 6 cylinder engine from the factory, Also comparing my B210 steering parts to my Friends 510 parts, the Box and idler are the same or DAMN close to the same, the center link i've never compared though.