510 Wagon Traction Bars Group Buy - Gauging Interest

[nullbound]

I'm working with Kelvin Dietz on a new group buy for his Traction Bar kits for '68 to '73 510 Wagons.  He had a small run a little while back and would be willing to do another run, but would like to have at least 6 buyers.  If we can get 6 or more confirmed buyers (really just need 5 buyers, since I'm first on the list), the price for each set will be $280 shipped in the continental US.  If we can't get 5 or more buyers, the price will be $380 per set.  

 

510 Wagon Traction Bar Info

Some early pics of his design can be found on the following flickr link:  

 

The intent with this setup is to prevent the diff/driveline from hitting the floor on a lowered 510 Wagon.  The pics in the flickr page are from the first set Kelvin put together.  With the initial solid bar design, Kelvin found that the solid bars REALLY restricted the normal movement of the springs.  Kelvin cut the tubes and did the telescope design and is much happier with the results of that change. 

 

There is no axle wrap with the telescoping design.  When you're on the gas, the two halves of the bar come together and effectively create a solid bar.

 

The telescoping rods can be seen in the following build thread: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/40112-autocrossstreet-handling-72-510-wagon/page-2?do=findComment&comment=644473

 

Also, here's a video showing the movement during acceleration:

 

Kelvin reports to have a 3/16" gap when static.   A simple piece of bike innertube held on by tie-wraps covers the joint.  You can see it doesn't move much.

 

What's included in this kit

*Laser-cut Brackets for front leaf mount and shock mounts

*Traction bars

*Heim joints

*Hardware (bushings, bolts, nuts, etc.)

 

This is essentially all the pieces you need to bolt it together.  However, you will have to weld the brackets included in the kit to the shock mounts and front leaf spring brackets on your wagon.  The bars themselves will not require welding.

 

Shock mount pic:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kelvins_pics/5809585064/in/set-72157626784952719/

 

Front leaf spring bracket pic, showing parts welded on:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kelvins_pics/5809021731/in/set-72157626784952719/

 

Here's a pic of Kelvin's wagon with the bars installed:

 

Kelvin's car is around 2" lower than stock and he reworked the tunnel a little.  Any lower than this and you'll likely have to do more work on the tunnel.

 

Purchase Info

In order to be a confirmed buyer, you will have to pay Kelvin 50% of the cost via PayPal up front.  No money will be collected until we have the confirmed list of buyers.  Once we get 6 buyers, I'll reach out to them via private message on the respective forum with Kelvin's PayPal address and they can pay him the 50% down payment.  Kelvin will get to work on putting together the sets.  Once the sets are complete, I'll again contact buyers and they can pay Kelvin the remaining amount.  Once final payment is received, your parts will be shipped by Kelvin.

 

This is a gauging interest thread at this point.  I'll update purchase info as I confirm with Kelvin.

 

Disclaimer/Legal

The buyer assumes all risk as to quality, performance and use of these products and agrees to hold Kelvin Dietz, Ryan Ash, and this forum harmless for any injury, loss, or damage; including any and all incidental or consequential damages arising from the sale, installation, or use of the products in this thread. It is suggested that State and Federal regulations be checked before using these parts on your vehicle.

 

Basically it boils down to the fact that neither Kelvin nor I can take responsibility for your welding on the brackets.

 

Buyer list

1.  Ryan Ash (nullbound)

2.  KyushaKai

3.  dakotahchore

4.  ariascarlos1990

5.  fivetenguy

6.

 

Let me know if you want to be added to the list and we'll go from there.

 

Thanks!

Ryan

[MicroMachinery]

I can't see any reason why these wouldn't work on a 610 or 710 wagon.. am I correct?

[KyushaKai]

I'm in.

[datzenmike]

We have had problems in the past selling things that are not made and physically present. Money is paid in good faith and problems in production and excuses have gone on for years with basically dozens of members left holding the bag on windshield rubber gaskets made overseas. If you want to gauge interest then make them, fine.

 

Nullbound I have no idea who you are at 52 posts. Does Kevin Deitz know you are working with HIM??? Or likely in a round about way you are just buying his product to sell here?

[nullbound]

I can't see any reason why these wouldn't work on a 610 or 710 wagon.. am I correct?

 

Possibly... If the front leaf spring mounts and shock mounts are the same, as well as the distance between the two, then it should work.  I'm hesitant to say yes without being able to validate that, though, and I don't have access to a 610 or 710.  If someone can post pics of those parts and the length between, I can run it by Kelvin.

[nullbound]

We have had problems in the past selling things that are not made and physically present. Money is paid in good faith and problems in production and excuses have gone on for years with basically dozens of members left holding the bag on windshield rubber gaskets made overseas. If you want to gauge interest then make them, fine.

 

Nullbound I have no idea who you are at 52 posts. Does Kevin Deitz know you are working with HIM??? Or likely in a round about way you are just buying his product to sell here?

 

Yes, Kelvin knows everything about this and I'm not selling anything to put money in my pocket.  I'm just interested in getting a set of these for my wagon and Kelvin's not really intersted in doing just one set at a time.  I volunteered to do the legwork for this group buy so that I can get a set for myself.  Any payments will go directly from buyer to Kelvin, not to me or through me.  Kelvin confirmed the content of this post before I posted the ad and had requested half the money up front once we confirm the list of buyers.

 

I don't post much here and understand you not knowing much about me.  I also understand on the past history and probably know of one or two of the other flakey sellers you're referring to.  I'll run this by Kelvin to see if he's willing to make this a "gauging interest" thread instead.

[dakotahchore]

Put me on the list. 

[BigBopper805]

Will these work with stock springs cuz i notice they are using flex form springs. :confused:

[nullbound]

Will these work with stock springs cuz i notice they are using flex form springs. :confused:

 

I don't see a reason it would not work, but am double-checking with Kelvin.

[nullbound]

I updated the information in the first post to note that this is a gauging interest thread at this time.  I've also added dakotahchore and KyushaKai to the list. 

 

Purchase info is TBD while I discuss with Kelvin.

[Dzaster]

I don't see a reason it would not work, but am double-checking with Kelvin.

 

The only thing that I see would need to be dealt with when using flex-form vs stock spring--mainly in terms of ride height--is maintaining that static 3/16" gap in the slip that Kelvin mentions. Ride height will determine whether or not you need to adjust longer or shorter the bars, as I believe lower ride height the bars will be shorter and higher they will be longer.

 

However, he incorporates adjustable Heim joints with jam-nuts in his bars, so you should be covered there.

 

In regards to that 3/16" gap, for the guys that have air shocks and adjust occasionally to compensate for weight and travels, would then need to be adjusting the bars every time they raise or lower the vehicle to maintain that gap?

[TENDRIL]

are these mainly for higher powered goons  i.e. ka or sr swaps? 

 

as far as the bars serving a functional purpose ?

[nullbound]

are these mainly for higher powered goons  i.e. ka or sr swaps? 

 

as far as the bars serving a functional purpose ?

 

Not necessarily just for high-powered wagons.  I'm putitng an l20b in my wagon, but may go sr at some point later on.  The main idea is to prevent axle wrap/diff movement.

[nullbound]

I don't see a reason it would not work, but am double-checking with Kelvin.

 

Checked with Kelvin and he gave the following response:

 

 

I'm pretty sure they will work with factory leaf springs.  I remember measuring my son's stock wagon to make sure it would fit around the eyes.  Fact is, I think front front eye is a little smaller on the factory spring.

 

Nobody has installed them on factory springs.  You know there's always something that you didn't foresee.  I think it will work but I'm not 100% because I've never done or seen it.  I just can't see any reason it wouldn't fit. 

[Laecaon]

I have axle wrap, and I only have a Modded L18.

[Dzaster]

My differnetial/driveshaft flange bang turn against the driveshaft tunnel with a stock KA.

 

Also another very good way to transfer power to wheels --kinda like poly-urethane motor mounts.

[ariascarlos1990]

Put me down for a set.

[qwik510]

We have had problems in the past selling things that are not made and physically present. Money is paid in good faith and problems in production and excuses have gone on for years with basically dozens of members left holding the bag on windshield rubber gaskets made overseas. If you want to gauge interest then make them, fine.

 

Nullbound I have no idea who you are at 52 posts. Does Kevin Deitz know you are working with HIM??? Or likely in a round about way you are just buying his product to sell here?

 

Hi Mike,

 

I know Ryan (Nullbound ) and I can vouch for him. He bought my clean wagon several years ago and he has been a great member of the Datsun community for many years. He is more on HybridZ than on here but a good guy none the less. I also know Kelvin. He is a 510 Guru and has been around 510s and the Datsun community for over 25 years. His stuff is top notch and well engineered. 

 

Just wanted to help here and make this a reality. Parts like this in the aftermarket are what is going to help keep our little Datsuns alive for years to come. 

[fivetenguy]

Put me down for a set, please.

[motavated]

will these work on a 620? Nope! I think your rear end is all removable while mine  is all welded on.

[thisismatt]

If you can only get 5 total buyers then the price should be $336/ea ($280 for the 6th set divided into 5 plus $280 for each 1 of the 5).  Just sayin :P

[nullbound]

I updated the list of interested buyers in the first post.

 

 

If you can only get 5 total buyers then the price should be $336/ea ($280 for the 6th set divided into 5 plus $280 for each 1 of the 5).  Just sayin :P

 

Heh... maybe?  I'll give it another week and see where we are. :)

[dakotahchore]

Sweet! One more person to make this an affordable reality. 

[nullbound]

Got a sixth person in from the510realm.  I'll ping Kelvin tomorrow and get the ball rolling on this.  

[dakotahchore]

Sweet!