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Floor repair


DanielC

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On page 4 of this thread, I was working on the drivers side floor pan.  The door sill bend, and the seat shelf bend are basically the same, just a mirror image of the passenger side floor.

Not so, with the bend by the transmission tunnel.

There is a bend in the transmission tunnel curve, that meets the floor about 8 inches forward of the seat shelf. 

3TunnelBend_zpsf39ff338.jpg

Picture from the side.

1TunnelBend_zpsd05e21d3.jpg

i moved a light slightly, you can see the shadow a little better in this picture.   Because of the bend in the curve, you cannot do this whole curve, from the floor to the transmission tunnel on a sheet metal brake easily.

2TunnelBend_zpsa2b2f7f3.jpg

 

The following pictures have measurements.  These are approximate measurements, based on my idea of where the mostly flat plane of the floor pan starts to curve up to meet the seat shelf, the transmission tunnel, and the firewall.

The distance forward from the seat shelf to the transmission tunnel bend, in the curve.

6DimToBend_zps59afdd73.jpg

 

Distance from the door sill to the forward part of the transmission tunnel.  This part of the transmission tunnel is very close to parallel to the door sill.

4WidthForward_zpsedf67ddf.jpg

This is the approximate width of the floor, from door sill to the transmission tunnel, by the seat shelf.  Not only to you have to accommodate the curve up to the transmission tunnel, you also have to consider the rounded corner between the transmission tunnel, and the seat shelf.

5WidthAft_zpsad95f023.jpg

 

To make a bend in a curve, one method is to make a cut in the steel.  This is how I do most of the cuts in the steel.

7AirCutoff_zps798b266c.jpg

A big diameter cutoff wheel works good for making straight cuts.  A smaller wheel, is good around curves.

 

I rounded the corner by the seat shelf to transmission tunnel.

8CornerCut_zpsa7262f34.jpg

and then cut into the corner so the metal could curve up.

9CornerSlot_zpsef71c5f2.jpg

I made another cut, 8 inches forward, for the transmission tunnel bend.

10TunnelSlot_zps77ad0394.jpg

 

Now, we can bend metal.  I have two of these duckbill Visegrip pliers.

13DuckbillPliers_zpsa08e5664.jpg

 

Remember the wood jig, or buck I made, (page 5) I clamped it curved side down where i wanted the curve.  I then grabbed the steel with the two duckbill pliers.

15ForwardBend_zps3e23c0ff.jpg

 

This is halfway bent.  Notice the corner cut I made allows the metal to overlap in the corner.

16ForwardBend2_zps2f9fb4a5.jpg

 

Just another picture of the hand bend.  This was actually the first bend, using the jug, or buck to form the upward curve.

11HandBend1_zpsb4dbd385.jpg

 

12HandBend2_zps294335f2.jpg

 

This is the forward section of the transmission tunnel curve.

14AftBend_zps79426fa5.jpg

 

The aft section had a cut, and after the bend is done, the metal overlaps.  It will get cut some more, the overlapping pieces trimmed, and welded together, as the pan is fitted into a cab.

18ForwardCornerBend_zps16bff4a5.jpg

 

So a quick review.

My measurements on the floor.  Remember these are approximate. Your mileage may vary.

19FullView_zps7b566cd0.jpg

 

This is the first of two drivers side floor pans I am making.  It is a bit of a test piece, I am using to work out techniques for making more of these.

20FullViewBent_zpsa4c0ae49.jpg

 

Now back to this picture.  Notice the odd little hump below the gas pedal stop?  That was the next project.

2TunnelBend_zpsa2b2f7f3.jpg

 

Edited by DanielC
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Daniel!  Very nice work.

 

I just want to mention that when you bend the metal like that. You can also use some flat stock. I noticed it bent pretty well but it also looked like it slightly deformed when bending using just the two clamps.  A piece of flat stock metal on the top and bottom will help spread it and keep the bend perfectly straight.

 

Good on you man, I've been watching this since you started it.

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That is an idea, with only two clamps, I do get some deformation.   But it is easy to work out with hammer and dolly.  That area will eventually be welded to the transmission tunnel, and the metal will have to be moved around a little anyway, to match the the exact contours of the old metal.    I know, exactly may be a bit of an overstatement.

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I did not get to the gas pedal hump today.  I worked on rounding the corner where the seat shelf meets the transmission tunnel.

This is the corner in question.   This picture was taken right after I made a cut to give me s bit more clearance.

ClearanceCutDone_zps40aad6f1.jpg

The clearance cut.

ClearanceCut_zps97198b40.jpg

 

I need a nice round form to work the corner on, this will work.

2-516Ball_zpsc406213c.jpg

 

Make a cut where the metal is high, or contacting itself, and hammer it down.

HammerOnBall_zpsc78093ff.jpg

The dolly on the rag, at the left side of the picture is also handy working on the floor pans.

 

The rounded corner.  It is not welded together, or finished yet.  I have a cab, with the floor cut out of it, that I can fit the pans into, and after the fit is good, then the corner is welded, and finished. 

CornerRounded_zps5f4cae76.jpg

 

These two pictures are one set of floor pans.

DLeftPan_zps6f90de0c.jpg

 

FirewallWelded_zps0c1bc8ae.jpg

 

This is a set for one of my project trucks, Dragon Two.

D2Pans_zps6a9f6021.jpg

 

This is a set that is going into a cab I am working on, Addict

AddictPans_zps7e9e60fa.jpg

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A little more work on the floor pans.

The pans are a little longer than the flat part of the floor, back to front.  I need to trim some metal off to clear the wheel well.

WheelWellCut_zps95a509f7.jpg

 

I did that to all three pans I am working on.  I measured that cut at 18 3/8 forward of the seat shelf.  Again, if you are making your own pans, use your own measurement, you may not measure exactly like I did, and/or your cab may differ.

 

This is a right pan,

TunnelBend_zps14d38183.jpg

 

One left pan after cutting.

LeftPan3_zps6a1586d1.jpg

 

The second left pan, after cutting.

LeftPan_zpsb6343dc6.jpg

 

This is the better fitting left pan, test fitted into the floor less cab I have. 

LeftPan2_zpsc641ca03.jpg

 

This pan need to be done before the pans that go into Dragon Two.  If you are paying close attention you might have noticed this pan had "D2" marked in the middle of the pan.  That was erased.  To erase marks made with a Sharpie, use acetone, or a lacquer thinner containg acetone.   Most fingernail polish removers also contain acetone.

 

The pan that does not fit as well as this pan, will get some work later.

 

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A stamping die would be great!   But then I would need the press to run the die.   A big press, with a lot of pressure. 

I use a crude bolt operated die to make the body mount dimple.  That has a 5/8 bolt, that I tighten pretty tight, and becsuse the bolt hole is offset from the dimple, I have to use a vice on the end of the dimple away from the bolt.

The dimpling die, together.

DimpleDie_zps3debe562.jpg

The dimpling die, apart.

DieParts_zps14acd66c.jpg

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I added about a five inch extension to the firewall side of the floor pan.  This is a test fit.

FirewallFit_zps5164d9d1.jpg

 

I trimmed a little off the upper part of the extension where it overlapped the wheel well a little too much.

FirewallFit2_zps3e64cfa9.jpg

 

This is the tunnel side.  The back inside corner needs some work to get it is fit better, 

TunneSide_zps3ed8e41f.jpg

 

I did a few cuts in the corner, to make the corner "rounder"  In the last picture, the corner was too sharp, and was holding that corner of the floor pan up too high.

ShelfTunnelCorner_zps2b6674fd.jpg

 

I also added a piece of metal to the front end of the transmission tunnel.  This is just the beginning.  I need to form the hump that is in this area, maybe.  I think the only reason for this hump is to add clearance on the rare 521 truck with a column mount shift lever.

FirewallTunnelCorner_zps4a174617.jpg

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  • 7 months later...

The spring of 2015 (notice green pasture in background) I was able to sign up for a metal shaping class at Clackamas Community College.  The instructor basically lets you choose your own project, and then lends advise, and teaching on what you need to do.   This trailer is how I got the cab up to CCC.

AddictCabOnTrailer_zpsaksawszm.jpg

 

This is inside the body shop at CCC.

AddictCabAtCCC_zpsz6ad1y1w.jpg

 

I used these tie-downs to hold the cab to the trailer.  This picture was taken at the end of one class session, and i had spot welded the new floor pan to the transmission tunnel.

AddictTunnelSpotWelds_zpshzqxltzy.jpg

 

The spot welds under the door sill.  I used a old sock to pad the tie-down to prevent cutting the tie down on the door sill edge.

AddictSillSpotWeld_zpsjtq4vc7i.jpg

 

More spot welds, on the aft section of the new floor.

AddictBraceSpotWelds_zpsoc5kynqt.jpg

 

More spot welds in the floor.

AddictSillSpotWelds2_zpsxxfrornd.jpg

 

AddictSillSpotWeldsGround_zpsnjuvoukx.jp

 

AddictSeatSpotWeld_zpscsumwmef.jpg

 

AddictTunnelSpotWeld2_zpsdhuigztj.jpg

 

Some spot welds at the front of the transmission tunnel.

AddictLinkageHumpSpotWeld_zpsouka2ltr.jp

 

Firewall spot welds.

AddictFirewallSpotWelds2_zpsffqahixb.jpg

 

AddictFirewallSpotWelds_zps7lkrrcfp.jpg

 

These screws hold the new floor to the brace under it.  One screw is removed, then the hole spot welded.

AddictBraceScrewed_zpszho9tdsw.jpg

 

In between the class finishing in June, and now, the cab has been sitting in the garage, and when I had time, I would go out and weld on it some.  Then grind the welds, look for pinholes, more welding, grinding, and so on.

Finally, yesterday, I decided I got the floor welds good enough to put some primer on the bottom of the floor.

AddictLeftBottomPrimed_zps8xw45p1e.jpg

 

I did a lot of cleaning of the right side floor, and then primed it also.

AddictRtBottomPrimed_zpslfeujyuh.jpg

Edited by DanielC
fixed some spelling, added year to spring.
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  • 3 years later...

The white cab in this thread has been sitting in storage since late summer 2015.  However, in Spring of 2018 I noticed this.  It seems that either water condensed, or some snow blew on to bare metal in a previous winter.

AddictRtCoreTop1.JPG

 

I cleaned surface rust off the radiator core support, and also off the cowl area.

AddictRtCoreTop2.JPG

 

And then it was sprayed with PPG 1791/1792 wash primer, and then PPG DP40LF epoxy primer.

AddictRtCoreTop3.JPG

 

I also primed the front of the core support, and headlight bucket.

AddictRtHlBkt.JPG

 

and the front of the center strut, 

AddictCenterStrutFr.JPG

And the back, or engine side too.

 

AddictCenterStrutBk.JPG

 

I cleaned rust off the cowl area, and primed it when I was priming other areas of this cab.

AddictRtCowl.JPG

 

And finally back to floor work.  This picture was taken in April of 2018, but I cleaned the rust off it late January 2019.

AddictRtFloor.JPG


Just a quick post to bring this topic up in the search.  I am starting floor work on Dragon Two cab.

This truck:

https://ratsun.net/topic/52124-my-dragon-2-datsun-521/

 

Edited by DanielC
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  • 4 weeks later...

September, 2015 was the last time I posted in this thread about doing some useful work.  This is an extra cab I have, that needed new floor pans in the front half of the cab only.  I have already put the drivers side pan in the cab, and started to work on the right side floor pan.  In the time since 2015, I bought some of these blind Cleco clamps.  It is a lot easier to put them into a hole to hold the floor pan in the cab, than my previous method, a #10-32 screw and nut.  But a screw and nut clamps more than a Cleco, they are rated for only about 20 pounds of clamp force.  But where you cannot get access to a nut on the backside of a screw, the Clecos work well.

TrialFit1.JPG

 

Just a view looking toward the door sill. or inside of the rocker panel.

TrialFit2.JPG

 

After checking the fit of the floor pan in the pictures above, I decided to add some metal to the transmission tunnel side front of the floor pan.   This picture was taken after that metal was added.  I also need to add some metal to the lower firewall by the transmission tunnel.  

TrialFit3.JPG

 

This is the process I used to add some sheet metal to the lower firewall side of the new floor pan.

First, I cut a piece of card stock.  This is part of a cereal box.   Cereal box card stock can also be used to make gaskets.

FirewallTemplate1.JPG

 

The area where the metal is pitted next to the transmission tunnel is what I want to replace.

Tunnelfirewall.JPG

 

When you have the card stock template, you use it to transfer the shape to a piece of metal.

Template2Metal.JPG

 

I used a cutoff disk in a small angle grinder.  If you just barely cut the metal on the edge of the cutoff disk, without actually penetrating through the sheet steel, you can cut a curve with a flat disk.

 

The freshly cut piece of metal that is going on the firewall needs a bend at the transmission tunnel.  This is how I did that.

MetalBend.JPG

 

Then  a quick test fit of the metal I want to add to the floor pan.

CheckFit2.JPG

 

This is the top side of the weld after some grinding.

FirewallWeld1.JPG

 

The bottom side of the weld after some grinding.

FirewallWeld2.JPG

 

The welding caused some distortion, where my finger is pointing.

WeldDistortion1.JPG

 

But there is a shallow dimple in the firewall that I am going to try to fit the weld distortion in the new floor pan into.

FirewallDimple.JPG

 

Friday February 15, 2019, I did more work on the right side floor pan.  If you look four pictures up from here, there is a sideways "V" notch where the firewall and transmission tunnel meet.  The notch is there to allow me to adjust the angle of the firewall extension to the floor pan.  I did a trial fit of the floor pan, and closed up that "V" notch where I wanted the firewall extension to be held.  This is the fit on that corner, after closing the notch.  I also put a few screws in the floor pan and lower part of the metal remaining on the transmission tunnel.  The extension needs to be trimmed  down also.

TunnelFirewallFit1.JPG

 

This is the underside of the firewall and transmission tunnel fit.  Some of this original metal still on the cab is bad, and I need to trim it, then I can start welding the floor pan in the cab.

TunnelFirewallFit2.JPG

 

some of the cab sheet metal I could jut cut with a pair of tin snips.

CabRtTrim.JPG

 

However, the area on the lower firewall I had to use a 3 " cutoff disk on a small die grinder.CabRtTrim2.JPG

 

I put a sheet of white plastic in the cab where the new floor pan goes, so make the trimmed outline of the new floor pan easily seen.

CabFloorPan2.JPG

 

This is the right floor pan sitting in the cab.   Time to clean everything, spray primer on bare metal I cannot reach when the floor pan is welded in, and use weld through primer on the welded areas..

CabFloorPan.JPG

Edited by DanielC
added six more pictures
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  • 4 months later...

Finally, I am doing some work on putting a new floor in this cab.   There is a lot more to this post, but a few days ago, I started by spraying some weld through primer on areas of this cab that is going to get a new floor pan.

Weld through primer on transmission tunnel, and lower firewall.

AddictCabWTPrimer1.JPG

Weld through primer on rear of transmission tunnel, and an area I call the seat shelf.  Notice holes in the piece of metal on the bottom of the cab.  The new floor pan top edge sits on the piece of metal above the step, and when bolted down to the lower piece of metal, it is  pulled to a close fit to the top piece of metal.

AddictCabWTPrimer2.JPG

This is the center brace for the floor pan, sometimes it is named "hat channel".   Also in this picture, is the center cab support.

AddictCabWTPrimer3.JPG

 

This is the right wheel well, but from inside the cab.  This piece of metal will be cut away, and replaced with new sheet metal, but it is actually on the bottom side of the floor pan, and easily accessed with the new floor board welded in the cab.  By putting the new floorboard in before replacing this damaged piece of metal, it gives a reference, or a location of the front of the floor pan in this area.

AddictCabWTPrimer4.JPG

This is the weld through primer I used.

WeldthruPrimer1.JPG

The other side of the label on the primer.

WeldThruPrimer2.JPG

this is the bottom of the new floor pan, with the weld through primer sprayed on some of the pan.  I ran out of the primer, and had to get another can the next day.  The floor pan is clamped to a saw horse, just so it does not fall on the floor.  There is a short piece of 2x6 lumber under the floor pan so the flange on the edge of the floor pan is not bent by clamping the pan to the saw horse.

PanWTPrimer1.JPG

 

The next day, with a new can of weld through primer, and I have moved the clamp holding the floor board or pan to the saw horse.

PanWTPrimer2.JPG

 

The back edge of the floor pan, this sits on the seat shelf in the cab.

PanWTPrimer3.JPG

 

Two pictures above, but primed.

PanWTPrimer4.JPG

 

Two pictures above, but primed, again

PanWTPrimer5.JPG

 

Primer dry, and bolting the floor pan in the cab, for the final time.  I am using #10-32 machine screws, with a nut.  The cab, and pan have 3/16 holes drilled in them.  I use black plastic test light part as a punch,  to align the holes if necessary.  If the #10-32 sheet metal screws do not go easily into the 3/16 holes, i use the tapered reamer to open the holes slightly.  A few of the #10-32 machine screws, and nuts are also in this picture.

Tools1.JPG

 

Just tools used to install the machine screws and nuts bolting the pan into the cab.  The machine screws have a 5/16 head, the nuts are 3/8 across the flats.

Tools2.JPG

 

The final installation of the floor pan before welding  needed a few more holes to hold the front part of then new floor pan to the lower firewall.  Just a drill with a 3/16 bit in it.

Also in this picture, the Cleco clamps that can go into a blind hole, that you cannot get a nut on the end of a bolt.  You can use a sheet metal screw to do this job, but I actually used the Clecos to quickly fit the pan in and out of the cab as I was forming the pan.Tools3.JPG

 

Transmission tunnel side of the pan, bolted in.

Tools4.JPG

Rear, or seat sheld side of the pan bolted in.  Also in this picture, some Cleco clamps holding the outside edge of the floor pan to the inner side of the rocker sill.PanBolted1.JPG

Same picture above, but without flash on the camera.

PanBolted2.JPG

 

Cleco clamps holding the outside edge of the floor pan to the inner side of the rocker sill.   The front edge of the side of the floor pan is forward of the door post, and it was bolted to the cab with the machine screws.

PanBolted3.JPG

 

This is the forward edge of the floor pan, that had an extension welded to it by the lower firewall.  I had to add a few more holes and bolts in this area before welding the pan in to the cab.

PanBolted4.JPG

 

This is under the middle of the cab, looking up into the forward part of the transmission tunnel.

PanBolted6.JPG

 

This is under the front of the cab, looking back at the floor brace, or the hat channel.

PanBolted7.JPG

 

This is under the cab again, looking out at the hat channel.

PanBolted5.JPG

 

This is the cab mount

PanBolted8.JPG

 

This is the rear outside corner of the floor pan.  There is a small shelf on the inside of the rocker panel that the edge of the floor pan sits on.

PanBolted9.JPG

 

This is the rear inside corner of the floor pan, the transmission tunnel on on the far right of this picture.

PanBolted10.JPG

 

 

I think I am done editing this post, I have more pictures of the welding in process, some pretty ugly, but I do not want to spend more time sitting on a computer, with actual metal work to be done for now.

Edited by DanielC
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With the doors and fenders off this cab, I can start welding.   I bolted a piece of sheet metal to the door post, and attach the ground clamp to the sheet metal.

GroundClamp.JPG

GroundClamp.JPG

Time for some ugly weld pictures.  

After bolting the new pan in the cab, I start welding the back edge of the new pan into the cab.

AftWelds1.JPG

AftWelds1.JPG

 

After the back top edge is welded, then I do the plug, or spot welds just forward of the seat shelf.

AftWelds2.JPG

AftWelds2.JPG

 

More welds.

AftWelds3.JPG

AftWelds3.JPG

 

Remember I used some weld through primer on the cab and new floor pan?  the weld through primer seems to make the welds more "active" and want to pop and splatter more, and it seems the molten metal is more fluid.  I could be wrong on my assessment, I am by no means an expert welder.  After this weld "blew out", I held off on welding the door sill side of the floor until I could reposition the cab.

AftWelds4.JPG

AftWelds4.JPG

 

I installed a few more bolts in the front part of the floor pan where it joins the lower firewall.

FrontBolts.JPG

FrontBolts.JPG

 

These are some of the plug welds I put in the floor pan. 

PlugWeld1.JPG

PlugWeld1.JPG

 

When I was doing these plug welds, I first held a piece of copper on the underside of the weld.  

PlugWeld2.JPG

PlugWeld2.JPG

 

This is how I would hold the copper piece against the floor.  The weld to the left of the copper and jack are already done, and to the right, the screws are still in the floor pan holding it tight to the brace.

PlugWeld3

PlugWeld3.JPG

 

With the piece of copper under a weld I am going to do, I cut the bead off the end of the welding wire on the wire feed welder.  I aim the wire at the center of  the bottom of the hole, and as a puddle of molten metal forms, I use a spiral motion out closer to the edge hole, until the hole is filled up.

PlugWeld4.JPG

PlugWeld4.JPG

 

These welds are on the forward edge of the floor pan, on the sloped part of then lower firewall.  they did not flow as nice at I would like.

PlugWeld5.JPG

PlugWeld5.JPG

 

Some more welds, and I have started grinding the welds down.

PlugWeld6.JPG

PlugWeld6.JPG

 

I start by grinding the weld with the edge of a grinding disk in a small angle grinder.  Holding the grinder in this position grinds the weld forward and back.

PlugWeldGrind1.JPG

PlugWeldGrind1.JPG

 

Then I use the angle grinder some more, but grind side to side, 90 degrees to the direction of the last grinding.  I try to only grind on the weld.

PlugWeldGrind2.JPG

PlugWeldGrind2.JPG

 

Then I use the flat side of the grinding disk to flatten the weld some more, but without grinding in to metal that is alongside the weld.  After this step the weld is still a little higher than the surrounding area.

PlugWeldGrind3.JPG

PlugWeldGrind3.JPG

 

Next, I use a small air angle grinder with twist lock grinding disks,  first 36 grit, then 80 grit.

PlugWeldGrind4.JPG

PlugWeldGrind4.JPG

 

Similar to using the larger angle grinder and the edge of the grinding disk, I first use the 36 grit disk, and make the grind marks forward and back,

PlugWeldGrind5

PlugWeldGrind5.JPG

 

Notice the grind marks,

PlugWeldGrind6.JPG

PlugWeldGrind6.JPG

 

And then make the grind marks go side to side.  I am still using the 36 grit disk.

PlugWeldGrind7

PlugWeldGrind7.JPG

 

I switch to the 80 grit disk, and repeat forward and back grinding,

PlugWeldGrind8.JPG

PlugWeldGrind8.JPG

 

then side to side grinding.

PlugWeldGrind9.JPG

PlugWeldGrind9.JPG

 

The weld is pretty much flush with the rest of the floor now, and then I use a 3M clean and strip disk to finish the weld and the area around the weld.  Like before, I use the edge of the clean and strip disk forward and back, then side to side, and sometimes a little on the flat face of the disk.

WeldFinish1.JPG

WeldFinish1.JPG

 

WeldFinish2.JPG

WeldFinish2.JPG

 

WeldFinish3.JPG

WeldFinish3.JPG

 

Finally. the welded area is gone over with a 80 grit sandpaper on an orbital sander.

WeldFinish4.JPG

WeldFinish4.JPG

Edited by DanielC
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