Floor repair

[DanielC]

Thanks for the info, Charlie.  i thought Arizona trucks did not need rust repair.  But rubber, and plastic get killed in the Arizona sun.

 

I am using 18 gauge sheet metal.   I have found that the large flat section, bottom of the floor is usually the worst.  the plastic floor mat Datsun used in these trucks would not let any water evaporate, if it got under the floor mat, and of course dirt got under the floor mat.  Dirt, and water, makes grinding compound, removes the paint.  Then the water just keeps the rust forming.

 

I would think just needing a patch, like Royal Sierra needs for the gas pedal hole, without needing the rest of the floor pan, would be rare.

[Royal Sierra]

Thanks for the info, Charlie. i thought Arizona trucks did not need rust repair. But rubber, and plastic get killed in the Arizona sun.

 

I am using 18 gauge sheet metal. I have found that the large flat section, bottom of the floor is usually the worst. the plastic floor mat Datsun used in these trucks would not let any water evaporate, if it got under the floor mat, and of course dirt got under the floor mat. Dirt, and water, makes grinding compound, removes the paint. Then the water just keeps the rust forming.

 

I would think just needing a patch, like Royal Sierra needs for the gas pedal hole, without needing the rest of the floor pan, would be rare.

I do need the whole floor pan on both sides, and the metal where the gas pedal mounts to the firewall needs reinforced, as it flexes when the gas pedal is pressed. My last 521 had the same issue.

 

And yes, it'll be ready for Canby 2016. I'm in Alaska until January 2015. I have a couple truckloads of parts that have been sent to my moms house. Including a dogleg, I'm having an L16 built. Custom tailights nobody has done yet, that shall remain confidential..

 

 

If you have an extra tailgate, I'd be more than happy to purchase it..

[Charlie69]

Basically you are right butt unfortunately my truck windshield as many 520 521 do, leaked rain/wash water in the bottom passenger side and was also in a flood up in Sedona AZ back in the 1980's and was never cleaned out .  The carpet was left in it. rubber and seats and plastic do not last here at all.

 

This is the extent of my floor patch.

[DanielC]

If you looked a the edges of the pictures of the extra cab I have, you may have noticed rusty areas.  some of that is old rust, but a lot of it was from me cleaning the paint off the floor last fall, and I was an idiot, and did not get primer on it.    It was under a carport, and this rain would not get in it, I thought.  But we had a few days of cold, light blowing snow, last winter.   So there was a lot of fresh rust on the floor of the cab. 

It is getting warm enough to paint outside again.  I have spent free time in the last week or so, cleaning rust off the floor of the cab, and finally got some primer back on it last evening.

Left side.

Right side.

[DanielC]

So I finally got around to doing more work on the floor pan, and here is where I am, currently.

I have started making the detail under the gas pedal, here is a picture of the piece I am adding to the left floor pan, partially welded in.

 

Here is more of a close up picture.   This pan has been fitted into the white cab in post 21, without the gas pedal corner addition.  The corner addition is only partially welded in to the floor pan, I need to do a little more cutting and fitting.   I do not want to completely weld the corner addition in, until I fit it again in to the white cab, with the corner addition.

 

 

I have a Miller Autoset 180.  I am using CO2/Argon mix for a gas.  I am still learning to use it.  I tried using .023 wire, but I had a problem with the tips going bad, and the wire welding itself to the tip, and stop feeding.  If I tightened the wire feed pressure, I would just get a bird-nest at the feed roller.  I am currently using .030 wire, it can tolerate a higher feed pressure, before bending at the feed roller, and making a bird nest.  

 

I "cheat" when doing some MIG welds.  I try to back up the metal with a piece of copper.   I have a few pieces, 1/4 thick, and slightly larger than a credit card, and also two more pieces 3/4 x1/4 by about 5 inched long.   I have also used flattened pieces of copper pipe.   I have found holding the gun tip at a flat angle, and not so much straight down into the metal makes it easier to not blow holes into the metal.

[wayno]

So I finally got around to doing more work on the floor pan, and here is where I am, currently.

I have started making the detail under the gas pedal, here is a picture of the piece I am adding to the left floor pan, partially welded in.

 

Here is more of a close up picture.   This pan has been fitted into the white cab in post 21, without the gas pedal corner addition.  The corner addition is only partially welded in to the floor pan, I need to do a little more cutting and fitting.   I do not want to completely weld the corner addition in, until I fit it again in to the white cab, with the corner addition.

 

 

I have a Miller Autoset 180.  I am using CO2/Argon mix for a gas.  I am still learning to use it.  I tried using .023 wire, but I had a problem with the tips going bad, and the wire welding itself to the tip, and stop feeding.  If I tightened the wire feed pressure, I would just get a bird-nest at the feed roller.  I am currently using .030 wire, it can tolerate a higher feed pressure, before bending at the feed roller, and making a bird nest.  

 

I "cheat" when doing some MIG welds.  I try to back up the metal with a piece of copper.   I have a few pieces, 1/4 thick, and slightly larger than a credit card, and also two more pieces 3/4 x1/4 by about 5 inched long.   I have also used flattened pieces of copper pipe.   I have found holding the gun tip at a flat angle, and not so much straight down into the metal makes it easier to not blow holes into the metal.

You need to keep your trigger line as straight as possible all the time, and if it keep burning up into the tip, either you need a new liner, or you need to clean the metal your welding better.

Also, you don't weld sheet metal, you tack it, 521 johnny knows how to weld, his welding is the best I have ever seen, he doesn't weld sheet metal, he tacks it when welding to old sheet metal.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://community.ratsun.net/topic/28056-body-dropped-72-521/page-14&sa=U&ei=1ZmsU7-3NIX4oASXqIEI&ved=0CAYQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNFhAFKvPacDbctB87maktdNpxER-A

 

 

[DanielC]

I got the gas pedal corner of the new floor pan done, and I did another trial fit into the cab this floor pan is going into.

 

Gas pedal corner.

 

Transmission tunnel side.

 

Door side.

 

Wheel well corner.

 

I still need to make a piece for the bottom of the wheel well., but that should be pretty easy.

[armycook]

I need one for my driver side. :)

[cjzeppy]

Looks great. The 521 I'm trying to pick up has identical rust spots. Guess that's why these aren't so common. haha

[datson4life]

Nice work

[4perrev]

You have more patience than I my friend. I cut my metal to overlap on all 4 sides, did a 70 degree bend and then used a 1/2 inch brass punch or bar to mold each piece into place around the edges. The wheel wells were a bit tricky, but with enough persuation, they molded right in. After that, I just welded all the way round. Then a samiched them from the bottom to completely seal the floor. Worked like a champ!

[DanielC]

This is probably where you should start with a floor replacement.  Clean enough of the floor you have, so you have a good idea of what you need to replace.  I did some of that today, on Ratsun, drivers side floor.

 

More pictures of the left side floor in Ratsun Datsun, and I did some cleaning.  I am cleaning rust away, to see how much of the floor needs replacing, and what I can keep.

Wheel well area.  

After some cleaning.

More cleaning

and this is where I stopped cleaning.

This is the transmission side of the floor.

and the seat shelf area.

and this is the door sill side of the floor.

and finally, the center of the floor.

[kaoss]

I have 0 patience for sheet metal work. I just cut pieces and tacked them in. I also had to deal with the frame rails coming through the floor due to the body drop. 

 

 

 

[DanielC]

That is an old hot rod technique for "lowering" a car.  You cut channels in the body, to lower the body on the frame, and the vehicle looks lower, but retains the normal ride height suspension.

[kaoss]

That is an old hot rod technique for "lowering" a car.  You cut channels in the body, to lower the body on the frame, and the vehicle looks lower, but retains the normal ride height suspension.

 

Normal ride height suspension? What the hell is that??? ;)

[DanielC]

I have been working on a second left side floor piece, for my 521 trucks.  I have one left side floor piece that is close to ready to weld into a second cab I have, a cab I call Addict.   But before I weld the floor piece in that cab, I wanted to use that floor piece as a template to make a second piece.

I had planned on making two right, and two left 521 floor pieces, because I can buy a piece of 18 gauge steel, 24x48 inches.  I am not yet sure if you can cut a right and left floor piece out of a single 22x48 piece of steel.  I will explain a little later.

I buy the 22 x 48 piece of steel, and get a 3/4 90 degree flange brake bend in to the two short sides.  This flange ends up against the door sills.   Then I start to trim the steel a little, and put bends into it.  I have found this order of bends and cuts works for me.

Door sill bend, cut a slot for the seat shelf bend.  Bend seat shelf, 90 degrees to door sill, about 45 degrees of bend.  At the seat shelf to transmission tunnel, cut a 45 degree cut, and put another cut about 8 inches forward of the seat shelf, because the transmission tunnel has a slight bend in it.   Then I cut out the front of the floor piece, by the wheel well, and then cut out a section at the front of the transmission tunnel, and work on fitting the small piece of metal for the details at the front of the drivers side transmission tunnel, under the gas pedal.

This is the first left side floor piece on top of the second floor piece.  The black mark is where I will cut the flange, to allow the seat shelf bend, in the right side of this picture.

 

I trimmed a little extra metal off the transmission tunnel side off the floor pan piece.

 

After the cut, I used the coarse disk in the grinder to deburr the edges, and then followed that up with the orange Clean and Strip disk, in the die grinder.

 

Now, the seat shelf bend.  I laid it out, using a carpenters square.  This bend is 90 degrees to the door sill, all the way to the transmission tunnel.

 

This is how I did the bend.  The floor pan is clamped to a metal saw horse, and the wide duckbill pliers are used to bend the metal up.

 

Remember the black mark, in the first picture, I used these pliers to offset the door sill flange, to allow the seat shelf bend.

 

The back, or bottom side of the seat shelf bend needed a little work to smooth out the bend.  Here I am working that out.

 

 

I also made a 45 degree cut at the corner for the seat shelf, and transmission tunnel.  In this picture, I am bending the rear section of the transmission tunnel

 

 

My finger is pointing to a slot, cut in the transmission tunnel bend.  This allows for the slight bend in the transmission tunnel of the cab.

 

Here I am using a hammer, and dolly to start to form the round corner between the transmission tunnel rear, and the seat shelf.

 

I also use this 2 5/16 trailer hitch ball to form the rounded corner. 

 

After cutting the first slot, to start the corner, two pictures above, with hammer and dolly, the rounding of the corner closes the gap.  I just take the cut off disk, in the die grinder, and cut the slot again, as it is hammed closed.  Then more hammering on the trailer ball, and recut the slot as needed, and you end up with a nice round corner.

 

 

So now, I have the door sill flange, the seat shelf is started, and the transmission tunnel bend in the floor pan.   I cut the front part of the pan, by the wheel well, and then cut the transmission tunnel bend, near the front to raise the front part of the floor board, where it meets the firewall.  then I did a trial fit into my second cab.  

 

Then I cut out the corner under the gas pedal, to fit the floor pan into Ratsun cab.

 

This is a close up of the cut.

 

 

I did some more hammering and fitting of the floor pan into Ratsun cab, and here is it against the door sill.

 

This is the seat shelf area.

 

This is the transmission tunnel side.

 

And the firewall, or front edge.

 

 

I also worked on the piece that is giving me some problems, the hump under the gas pedal.  I sketched out an idea of the profile for a smaller piece of metal on the floor pan I already had done.

 

I fitted this piece of cardboard to the done floor pan.

 

Used the cardboard to mark and cut a piece of metal,

 

Bent the metal about where I thought it should be bent,

 

then I clamped the small metal piece to the done floorboard, and hammed it some more.

 

These are some of the hammers, and punches I used to form the small floor piece.

 

But after working the small gas pedal piece, it really did not fit Ratsun cab all that well.   I need to work it some more, or possibly make and fit another piece.

Edited January 27, 2019 by DanielC
Grammer and spelling errors

[Charlie69]

That is some nice "handy" work on the metal,  You are doing a great job on your 521.

[DanielC]

A little more work on 521 cab floor replacement.   This is the cab that is going to be my first attempt at welding a new floor in to.   A word of caution.  When cutting the rusted floor out, try to do the cuts from the bottom.  Usually the floor braces are in better shape, than the main floor, and you probably want to keep them, so try not to cut them.  If you cut from the top, you cannot see them and you will cut stuff you do not want to.  Like this.

There is a small step in the inside of the door sill.  I did not realize it was there, and cut in to it.  Now I have to weld repair it, before the new floor piece goes in.

 

This is the center cab mount, left side.  I cut too deep with a spot weld saw, and have to fill the bigger hole.  The smaller holes are for screws I use to hold the floor in, while doing trial fits.

 

This is just a picture of where I stopped working on it last night, about 10:00 PM

[DanielC]

I have been doing some work on my extra cab.  It got moved into the garage, and I tipped it up on the back, so I could work on the front wheel wells, without having to be under in.

The bottom of the (front) wheel wells has some rust damage, and part of that will need to be replaced before the floor can be fitted, and welded in.  I have been removing the old paint, primer, and mostly surface rust, and getting the bottom of the wheel well ready to repair, prime and paint.

This is the right side, but the left side looked like this.

Another picture, with flash.

 

This is the left side.

Left side again, with flash.

 

Does anybody know how to take a picture of bare metal, that looks like you see it?  My pictures of bare metal show different hues, mainly reds, and do not really look like clean bare metal.

[wayno]

Looks like bare metal to me, I have to say that you must be the most patient man I have ever met,. I could not get my metal that clean with a sand blaster, I don't want to spend that much time on it.

Just keep taking photos until you get what you want, I have the most trouble with close up stuff, my camera keeps focusing on the background. 

[DanielC]

Last Saturday, I got some primer on the bare metal I cleaned off earlier.

It was barely warm enough to paint (prime), so I put these four Par 46 200 Watt lamp close to the fresh primer to help it cure.

Here is that area today.

 

So, this is how I clean the metal. 

First, I use a chisel to scrape large pieces of tar, and other crud off the metal.  This also works if you have to remove undercoating.  Do this when the metal is cold.  Undercoating is more brittle then and easier to remove. 

 

Then I wet a paper towel with paint thinner, and using two paper towels, one dry, and the wet one, I wipe, or sometimes scrub the dirty metal with the wet towel.  Then wipe off the metal with the dry paper towel.  Do this until the wet and dry towel stay clean.

 

Wear nitrile gloves when handling paint thinner, paints, or primers.  It is also nice to wear then, it keeps the hands much cleaner.  The dust mask is also good to wear when sanding old paint.  Our Datsuns were made when it was still common practice to use lead in paints.

 

Goggles and a face shield are also a good thing to wear.  But I will be honest, I do not wear the goggles much, because I have prescription safety glasses I wear all the time.  But when grinding, or cutting metal with a cutoff wheel, I wear the face shield.

 

Sermon over, back to work.  The metal has been cleaned with paint thinner, and the next step is to sand what I can reach, using the DA

 

 

That cleans off some paint, and rust, but it does not go into the bottom of concave curves.

 

3M, and some other companies make these Clean and Strip disks. 

Some just have a hole, and mount on an arbor, other types use an adapter.

Using the clean and strip disks, I can get more old paint, primer and rust off the metal.

 

Then I use these Nyalox brushes to clean the metal some more.

The Nyalox wheels can get even more rust, and old paint off the metal.  They also do a really nice job of doing a final cleaning of the metal.

 

These are the tools I run the disks, and Nyalox wheels with.  The hose clamp on the drill trigger allows me to lock the drill on, but at whatever speed I want.  The button lock on the drill is full speed only.  The clean and strip disks can be ran fast, but if you use too much speed with the Nyalox wheels, the nylon in them melts,and sticks to the metal.

I also use this extension to be able to reach more places with the wheels, and brushes, that i could not get to if the wheels were in the drill directly.

 

Here is a the drill, the extension, and a clean and strip disk.

 

With the clean metal, I can then prime.  Because I am doing small areas, I do not need to mix a lot of primer.  This is how I measure out small quantities of epoxy primer, activator, and thinner, if needed.

I use a small measuring cup, and to pour the primer out of the can, without making a mess, I put a masking tape spout on the can.

 

Now, I have primed metal, sitting under the heat lamps again.  I finished with the primer spraying about 8:00 PM, and now it is 11:30 PM, and time to go out into the garage and turn off the lights, and small heater in the garage.

 

[Charlie69]

I like the masking tape pour spout.

[DanielC]

Yesterday, Tuesday Oct 28, 2014, it again was warm, and dry enough to spray primer.

I cleaned some old paint, and rust spots off the firewall, and cowl, under the hood, and the pocket that the wiper motor, and fusebox sit in.  Then a wash (rust preventative) primer, and then Epoxy primer.

Firewall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cowl area

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wiper motor shelf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also worked on the corner between the inner fender, and firewall.

[zed1]

Did you use an aerosol epoxy primer?

Keith

[DanielC]

I used PPG 1791/1792, mixed 1 to 1, one medium coat.  That dries in about 10 minutes.  Enough time to clean out the gun, and mix the epoxy primer.

The epoxy primer is PPG DP40 LF, activated with PPG DP 402 LF, and thinned with PPG DT 860 reducer.

Mix ratio, 2 parts epoxy, 1 part activator, 1 part reducer.  I let that dry (cure) overnight.