welding

[king bee66]

im wanting to start learning to weld, and was curious what all i should buy, what type of welder, any type of mask work best, what metal would match datsun metal so i can practice? etc. im trying to do all of this as cheaply as possibly mostly harbor frieght stuff or craigslist.

[izzo]

18 gauge sheet metal, Mig, get gas with it if you can. otherwise flux core works fine. 30 flux to 35 flux. Get an auto darkening helmet...

 

The thing is, this metal is thin. so don't do long welds and beads(warps the metal and becomes a bitch to fix). Key is tach welding. Getting the right heat and wire speed.. You want good penetration (lulz)

 

 

There are ton's of videos on youtube on how to and some good help, general knowledge. I use just a 110v Lincoln mig wire feed with flux core, does alright. Make sure the metal is clean of paint rust etc. And properly butted up....

[wayno]

This is how I weld sheet metal, one tack at a time, about every 4 inches, then in between each weld, repeat, repeat till they are almost touching each other.

[datzenmike]

You might want to tack every 4-5" then go back over and do beside the first, which has cooled by now, and so on always keeping each tack 4 " away from the last until the gap is bridged.

[izzo]

^^ Thats basically it. You can also use a damp rag to cool it down a little quicker

[jesusno2]

It doesn't matter what ya do your gonna warp it. one tack will shrink the metal. the trick is learning how to stretch and shrink were needed,

[king bee66]

so im guessing long passes is a pretty advanced technique?

 

would this be an alright one to begin with?

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/mig-flux-welders/wire-welder-90-amp-flux-68887.html

[wayno]

It doesn't matter what ya do your gonna warp it. one tack will shrink the metal. the trick is learning how to stretch and shrink were needed,

 

 

I cannot agree with this statement, I made thousands of tack/spot welds on my 521KC and the only time I warped anything was when I tried to run a bead, absolutely nothing warped on that 520 top in the photo below, but I made sure that I did not tack within 2 inches of the last tack.

That top was the first time I ever used gas to do the top, in the past I have always used flux core wire, and I think it penetrates better, or maybe I did not have the unit set correctly for gas.

If you try to hold the trigger for even 2 seconds, yes the metal will warp, but if you tack it(maybe a half second), I have not had a warping issue.

[jesusno2]

any time you add any kinda heat to steel it expands and contracts, on a hot sunny day your sheet metal will expand a certain amount. You can keep a certain amout of control but it will still pull etc. Copper spoon, or copper backing will help control it. hitting it with a cold rag etc will make it shrink faster which may be good in the right circumstance. most people just fix their warpage with body filler anyways. their was a awesome video i seen once on a dude that was a bad ass metal worker. stretching and shrinking some old fenders

[yellowdatsun]

Take a class somewhere, the info you will get is immeasurable. It's the tiny details that make a HUGE difference when it comes to welding. Or have a good welder train you. Welding isn't something most people just pick up on their own and become great at it.

[king bee66]

Im not expecting to become great over night, but im willing to put a lot of practice in. I just have a few rust spots that id like to take out myself. A class is not really something i can work into my schedule, ive got some friends that non-auto arc weld, I can run some questions by...

 

Any feedback on the welder i linked to?

[yellowdatsun]

I love Harbor Freight, but their welders are absolute crap. It will be broken in no time.

 

Welders are one of the things that you get what you pay for. Spend the money and buy something decent. Or don't buy one at all. Seriously.

 

This Lincoln is the lowest quality welder you'd want to buy:

http://www.homedepot...51#.UI2DTFLibbw

 

I have the previous version of that welder, and have had it for probably 10-12 years. It's never failed once.

 

You will want something that can handle gas, if you want the welds to come out decent.

 

If you can't afford a new one, buy a used one, but you HAVE to get a brand name. IE: Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, etc. This way you can walk into any welding shop and get parts. Whether it be tips, a new gun, or whatever. With an el-cheapo unit you'll be screwed, and it will be land fill material as soon as it breaks. Money down the toilet.

[izzo]

^^ Nismo DR uses a harbor freight. And its been going fine still..

 

I have the lincoln 125. So its 110v. It does fine for welding sheet metal.

[merlin]

tons of great advice. another thing clean your metal well before welding. it's hard to get a good weld on rusty dirty metal and it will not be as good a weld... you also need to watch grinders and disc sanders as they will warp metal if you hold them in one spot too long... always be moving your sanders/grinders.

 

A very light sanding should be enough on most old parts , but I use degreaser/dewaxer before welding newer body parts or metal patch panels as they often are coated in a WD40 like substance to stop spot rust.

[king bee66]

Cool thats why i was asking, i blow through thier angle grinders every year or so, but the hell, they are only 20$ how much welding does nismo do? How long do you think its lasted.

 

Was going pick one tomorrow, maybe not

[merlin]

for body metal prep, i'd actually not use a grinder... i'd use a palm sander or a spot prep disc. they make really nice surface prep discs that you can use for paint removal...

http://3mcollision.com/products/abrasives/conditioning-discs

 

look like a scrubber pad - you can get them for grinders if you need to remove a lot of paint, but they can come apart like shrapnel if you use them near a sharp edge. .. and definitely try not to don't use grinding or heavy gauge sanding discs on a grinder for Datsun sheet metal.

[king bee66]

Thanks, ill look into that when im not on a phone. Ive been using a wire brush attachment, its brutal when one of the needles pokes through my jacket :P

 

[I'm BLUE]

 

Excellent advice !

 

I'm just a simple hobby welding tinkerer ,,, been doing it for almost half my life now.

So this is my advice from a hobbyist point of view.

 

practice , practice , practice ,,, and talking to welder's/learning a few tricks will get you by , but not a substitute !

If you can be a weekend apprentice to a welder/buddy ,,,, that is a good way to go.

Welding classes are good ,,,, and they are more practice as well :lol:

There is a TON of information needed for welding as an umbrella term... it's a never ending trip ! (at least that I see)

 

Bronze-silicon wire will produce 50% less heat , but 50% less strength to my knowledge.

 

Always weld in an area open with circulation.

Or at least create some circulation.

Don't weld anything galvanized ... health-hazard and just a big no no.

 

Solid advice throughout this thread from all members ! :cool:

 

Get comfortable ,,, work on your technique and attempt repititive movement's in your motions.

 

I have 2 Grinders set up.

1 has a wire wheel for cleaning work prior to welding

1 has a grinding disc or cut off disc.

It's faster for me this way.

 

As mentioned ... sheet metal stuff is time consuming ... but worth the time put in 10x fold.

 

Get yourself some of this stuff below... as needed or just options to think about if the need arises !

*Welding gloves ( <--- at least ! you don't want skin cancer. You can get welding coverall's , but be careful when underneath an object/lieing on your back and a piece of slag jumps down the coverall's ,,, it will be the fastest you sheer off your gear/clothing in no time flat ! serious. )

*MIG nozzle dip (if planning on flux core)

*MIG nozzle plier's/maintenance pliers ( will use frequently for cleaning nozzle , and changing tips )

*Welding blanket ( will burn through some ,,, but some protection is better than none )

*Butt-weld clamps ( sheet-metal work ideally )

*** Gas is absolutely ideal for bodywork and when you can get in a position to setup for it you will be very happy in general , but not necessary needed in all cases of welding. Depend's on application , experience , and material/project.

*C-Clamps ,,, welding C-CLamps ( you'll be using these quite a bit for numerous things ... bending , holding , jigging , drilling , etc )

*Angle Magnet's ... very useful ! ( many uses ,,, use mine all the time )... 45 and 90 degree's angles )

*Level's. ( many uses ,,, I use them often )

*Scribe's

*Soapstone (used for marking metal or blue-printing... I use these all the time on metal work.)

*Center Punches ( used prior to drilling )

*Copper Spoons ( body work application typically , but used for anything that warrants it )

*** Spool guns are very cool if you can afford. Certain kind of work justify's it and application ! You have to justify having it if you don't have a lot of money/work to use it for in my mind.

*Grounding magnet's (for welder ,,, not absolutely needed but useful depending ,,, and quicker if you know how to apply them)

*A good set of body tools.

*Building a self made sheet-metal brake is quite useful !

*Welding Vise-Grips... or vise grips in general.

* Heavy Duty sheet-metal pliers are nice for bending "thin" sheet-metal , but hard on the hands.

*Tape measurer's ... get 2 of them. 1 is a spare or extra line-up.

*90'degree large square's.

*Different grit cut-off disc's and grinding wheels (always wear goggles as cheap cut-off wheels WILL explode on you at some time ...

etc etc etc

 

When you buy a welder...

keep in mind that you want to purchase a welder that will do it all if possible...

Like yellowdatsun ,,, I'd buy the largest capacity name brand I can afford , and able to add gas onto !

also as yellow datsun stated ,,, it's much easier to buy replacement parts from local welding shops with a name brand welder.

As soon as you start welding ... you'll want to take on bigger and bigger projects :D ;)

 

Harbor Freight will provide some cheap welding accessories.

As always be careful of what you purchase as you have to live with it or buy twice in some cases.

 

Eastwood.com ( some pretty cool cost effective metal working tools )

Jegs.com

etc

Any welding supply shop should be able to hook you up with any critical items/gas and even tips if they are a nice ma and pa welding shop.

Home Depot and Lowes carry limited welding supplies , but decent to just gaze at.

 

I buy name brand flux-core wire in any case though.

 

Good luck and have fun !

[Skib]

using gas will make your life a million times easier working with datsun sheet metal.

 

 

I personally hate flux and will not use it.

[merlin]

totally agree with Skib... the right gas is the shit. i weld with flux when i do big stuff outside, but my weld quality once i go gas inside goes up dramatically. i also got the wrong gas the first time...straight argon... the welding shop i switched to got me a CO2/argon mix and it made things way better.

[Skib]

yeah I use CO2/argon