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1985 Kingcab Nissan gas swap to SD22 Diesel engine


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#21 wayno

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:46 AM

When you change the fuel filter, and I am talking about the one that spins on in the engine compartment, be sure to fill it to the top with diesel and then put it on, you should also run a pre-filter before it gets to the lift pump, that it the pump that the manual primer is connected to, that is your fuel pump.
If the fuel is truely only a year old, it is likely good, as I have started trucks that have sat for over a year, and they started right up.
The starter is kinda hard to get in and out, but try tapping on it with a long bar and a hammer on the end where the brushes are, not hard though, and make sure you have a real good battery cable from the battery to the starter, this seems to be a necessity, maybe it's because it is so long, also try using a remote starter trigger, for some reason, the ignition key can be the issue sometimes, actually the key is the issue a lot, not sure why.

Once you get it started, it will likely smoke a bit(white smoke), don't worry about it unless it still smokes after it is warmed up, it will likely quit smoking after it quits missing, as white smoke is unburnt fuel.

Make sure the vacuum hoses going from the injection to the carb looking thing are good and connected, as the injection pump is in the floored position until you get it started and create enough vacuum to pull it back to the idle position.

Here is a little info, even though these engines have a 22 to 1 compression ratio, they actually turn over easy by hand, it baffled me that when replacing my clutch cover/disc, I had to hold the flywheel still to tighten the cover bolts, never had that issue with a gasser engine, but when you drag it down the road, it will not likely turn that easy fast, as it is a 22 to 1 CR, you could likely leave black marks on the road.

 

 


#22 orizatlan

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:09 AM

Wayno.... you were right! I was not able to turn the engine by towing it. Why is that? I know its not stuck. So here i am towing it down the road at about 20mph and when i put it in 3rd i felt something. i thought the engine was engaging. I wasnt leaving black marks probably because i had the other sd22 in the back of the bed. So i probably towed it about 300 yds or so when i told my sidekick to stop becuase i smelt something burning. Guess what it was... the clutch. Si i was not able to transmit the power from the tires to the engine. I even tried it in 5th, and no luck. Back to the drawing board.

The reason we had inititially tried to turn it on this way was because the starter did not want to turn. i connected the battery and all the lights in the dash turned on... but no crank. But i also noticed that right before we began towing there were no lights working in the dash? But i made sure the pump was in the right position. So after the towing yesterday know my plan is to start it the right way. I pulled the starter and had it tested... PASSED. And know i have no lights in my dash. I also changed out my ingition to one that works and check the continuity at all phases, its good.
When i place the ignition in the ON position nothing happens. Just the other day all the lights came on and my plugs were hot. So i have also performed the following test.

http://asavage.dyndn...982&Page=20-043

And all good here.

I guess my question is, why wont my starter crank??? Please help me guys

Posted Image
Puling the engine on the second truck,last weekend

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This is the engine we took out in an hour.

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Just a pic of the engine apart from the trans and it harness.


Also, can somebody tell me what a fusible link looks like. Becuase i followed my electrical diagram on the starter circuit to find just a normal connector as show in the picture above. Tom me its just a normal connector. Is this a fusible link?? I know a fuse when i see it in line but this does not look like one.

#23 wayno

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:35 AM

This is what the fusible link looks like on the diesels.
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Posted Image
And this is where it is located, it is right on the positive battery post, it clips on, if you feel the wires with your fingers, you can feel when one is blown, as it is soft and rubbery, you cannot feel the wire inside anymore.
Check for power in all 4 wires, just unplug them from the connectors at the white plugs, and check the black and green wires for power, all 4 should have power, if no power, the fusible links are toast, but you should have at least 2 more.
Posted Image
Does the engine turn over by hand?
I hope you turned it by hand first.
When you try to start it with the key, does it click?
If it doesn't click, pull the starter exciter wire, have someone turn the key to the start position and check for voltage, if no voltage, then either a fuse has blown, or possibly the fusible link got smoked, I do not beleave you cannot buy fusible links anymore, but I have not actually tried to tell the truth.

 

 


#24 wayno

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:40 AM

It likely won't turn over for many reasons, I have push started mine before, but at walking speed.
Lets figure out why the engine won't turn over with the starter first, as it is best to start it that way if possible.

 

 


#25 wayno

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 11:45 AM

BTW, you can bypass the fusible links, but be very carefull, you don't want a fire, if they blew, it was for a reason.

 

 


#26 orizatlan

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:52 PM

Alright! I thought the white connectors were the fusible links and i was like...???... that looks like a connectore. And i even checked continuity across them. But know that i have seen the picture it makes sense.Thanks for the clarification.

PROGRESS! It was just the battery.haha. I know! So i put in a bigger battery with about 750CCR and this one was able to turn it. I am so excited. And yes, i did turn it by hand. That is why i was so stumped when i was tryiing to push start her. Anyways, i got the engine turning and it moves smooth. A friend of mine thought to put starter fluid so we did that and guess what it almost started. So we immedeatly loosened the no.1 injector to see if it squirted as we cranked. We did not. So now i am thinking that it may be the arm controller on the pump. When i move the ignition to the ON position, SOMETIMES the pump moves into place. Sometimes it does nothing.

Also, i have switched out 3 glow plug relay and still cannot get hot glowplugs. But i am getting closer.

MAN , when i get this thing on i am gonna run her for hours!

#27 orizatlan

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:56 PM

If my fusible link was blown,

What kind of amps could i put inline instead of just straight bypassing? 15, 25?

#28 wayno

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

As I said, everything goes threw them 4 fusible links, the glow plugs are one of them, the ign. is one of them, you need good power or nothing is going to work properly in all 4 wires, if you are not warming the glow plugs, then you don't have power to them, the glow plug power is one of the black(fusable link) to white(main harness) wires, the red wire goes to the headlight switch, and the white black goes to the ignition switch, one of the white wires goes to the glow relay, and the other goes to the fuse block, IP controller and the DPC module.
If you have to, touch a big wire from the positive battery post to number 4 glow plug for about 30 seconds, since they are all connected by the one wire, they will all warm up at once, then turn it over for 30 seconds, and then repeat over and over till it starts.
Since I am not there, I cannot see what is going on, so I am trying to type it down, but I am sure I am forgetting things.
The engine controller which is the thing/motor below the injection pump that moves the pump arm into the proper position when starting, running and shutting off the engine does not move till the engine is cranking/turning over, then it will go to the start position, it doesn't move when the ignition is turned on, but to get it started, remove the arm from the injection pump and let it move to the middle position, then expect to turn the engine over for quite a while before the engine even tries to start.
In the past I have removed all the injection lines and turned it over till the outlets started squirting fuel up at the hood, then I put the injection lines on and turned it over more till the lines filled up, but this was done this way as I was using a unknown pump.
You just have to turn it over for half a minute, and then let the starter cool off.
Don't use starting fluid, it is bad for your engine, since you seen it try to start with that fluid, now just let it start the way it's supposed to start.
Did you fill the spin on fuel filter with diesel to the top, did you pump the primer for a long time with it resisting you?
You cannot fill your injection lines with the primer, that has to be done by turning it over.
Beleave it or not, it's easier to turn the engine over in first going 10 mph, than going 30mph and trying to start it in 3rd.

 

 


#29 orizatlan

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 12:40 PM

Wayno! I got it running. On Saturday i decide to bring her home and as i was towing it i decided to throw it in gear again. This time it turned the motor and started chuggin. 15 seconds later it turned on. By this time i had emptied the diesel and put 2 fresh gallons and a new filter. I also realized that the reason it may not have turned the first time is because the clutch may have been stuck and as i heated it up it loosed. NEWays, the point is it turned on and it smokes like crazy.

I read your post,
http://community.rat...-engine-issues/
and this is exactly whats happening to me.It initially smoked gray. So as i got up to operating temp, i shut it off and gave it an oil change. Started her back up and saw an improvement. Smokes white now. This led me to believe that there is a ring problem but there is power. This engine was supposedly rebuilt 21K ago. I have also suspected stuck rings since its been sitting for 5+ years. So after reading your thread i guess i am going to check the pump timing and mess with the smoke screw. Any advice? After that i am going to change the pump out with on of the other ones that i have.

Other facts: the engine sounds great and has excellent response.
Also, i ran out of gas about after an hour of idling. WIth 2 gallons. This also leads me to believe there maybe a waste of fuel some place.

Thanks all! Stay tuned for the pictures of my little forest fire. Keep in mind we are recycling and there is a green side to that.=)

#30 wayno

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:45 PM

I would not mess with the pump timing if it was where it was stock, there are a lot of reasons why it will smoke when started, glow plug/plugs not good this will cause a gray/white smoke that comes out in puffs, which is un-burnt fuel, plugged injector, low compression for whatever reason, bad injection pump, lots of reasons I don't even know.
Give it some time, you cannot adjust out gray/white smoke that I know of.
There is smoke that is black, that is an engine running rich, that can be adjusted out with the smoke screw, do you know where the smoke screw is?
This is an injection pump.
Posted Image
This is your mechanical governor.
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This is the smoke screw, it is there to adjust the black smoke out.
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If you are dumping diesel somewhere, you will smell it, it's an unmistakable odor/smell, if you are smoking gray/white badly, you are basicly puking un-burnt fuel out the tail pipe which also smells bad.

 

 


#31 orizatlan

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:19 AM

What if i only have start and stop function on my pump controller? When it starts, if it continues to stay in the start position, which in the manual indicates excessvie fuel, could this be the reason it smokes so much. If so, when does the pump move to the run positon? Like it is based on time or heat. I am going to try to move it manually and see if there is any iprovement.

#32 hitch

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:54 AM

The controller will move to the run position when you are no longer engaging the starter.
Being a Datsun fan, allows me to to be a car enthusiast on a working man's budget!!

#33 wayno

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

What if i only have start and stop function on my pump controller? When it starts, if it continues to stay in the start position, which in the manual indicates excessvie fuel, could this be the reason it smokes so much. If so, when does the pump move to the run positon? Like it is based on time or heat. I am going to try to move it manually and see if there is any iprovement.


Depends on the color of the smoke, only black smoke is rich as far as I know, any other color would be some other issue.
See in the photos below how the smoke is gray, this is an issue, I removed this engine as I could not fix it.

Posted Image

Posted Image

 

 


#34 orizatlan

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:36 AM

Hey all, Its been a crazy month and i have wanted to document the progress but havnt because i like to post with pictures. So even though i am not done id like to give update and give some lessons learned so far.

Since i got the 82 running, i have still not been able to figure out why it smokes so much. So i started preparing the 85 donor/gasser.

I pulled the diesel engine.

Grinded out the angle irons on the 82 where the motor mounts bolt on to.

Pulled the gas engine and trans.

Welded on the angle iron onto the gasser, BECAUSE THE MOUNTS DO NOT BOLT UP. Although there was something that i did not try that may work. The angle irons on the gasser had a different bolt pattern. The diesel mount did not match up or sit right because of the pin positioner.
WHAT I COULD HAVE DONE is just make 3 hole. Two for the bolts and one for the pin. Then slip a nut behind the angle iron and just bolt up.
But whats done is done.
What i did instead was bolt on the angle irons that i grinded out of the diesel frame and dropped it into my gasser. i marked where it sat, then took the engine out and welded. I have to say that i am very proud for having welded it right. Everything lined up.

I dropped the engine and trans into the donor.

Pulled the gas harness

Installed the diesel harness


Lessons learned:
1. I would argue the the gas tank and the diesel tank are the same. I changed them out but look exactly the same. Even the lines. Unless there is some metallurgical difference that some one can show engineering specification im guessing they are the same.
2. Drop the engine and trans as one piece.
3.Integrate the diesel components( glow plug/relay/timer, and DCP and arm controller) into the gas harness. Why? I lost my A/C, power windows, defrost, radio, and other components. Now i have to back and wire individually and integrate them into my diesel harness. I studied the wiring diagrams for the diesel and the gasser and the everything is COLOR CODED. It can be done. It would save you from taking off the dash and making a mess in an other wise perfectly wired system.

More to come

#35 wayno

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:15 PM

Hey all, Its been a crazy month and i have wanted to document the progress but havnt because i like to post with pictures. So even though i am not done id like to give update and give some lessons learned so far.

Since i got the 82 running, i have still not been able to figure out why it smokes so much. So i started preparing the 85 donor/gasser.

I pulled the diesel engine.

Grinded out the angle irons on the 82 where the motor mounts bolt on to.

Pulled the gas engine and trans.

Welded on the angle iron onto the gasser, BECAUSE THE MOUNTS DO NOT BOLT UP. Although there was something that i did not try that may work. The angle irons on the gasser had a different bolt pattern. The diesel mount did not match up or sit right because of the pin positioner.
WHAT I COULD HAVE DONE is just make 3 hole. Two for the bolts and one for the pin. Then slip a nut behind the angle iron and just bolt up.
But whats done is done.
What i did instead was bolt on the angle irons that i grinded out of the diesel frame and dropped it into my gasser. i marked where it sat, then took the engine out and welded. I have to say that i am very proud for having welded it right. Everything lined up.

I dropped the engine and trans into the donor.

Pulled the gas harness

Installed the diesel harness


Lessons learned:
1. I would argue the the gas tank and the diesel tank are the same. I changed them out but look exactly the same. Even the lines. Unless there is some metallurgical difference that some one can show engineering specification im guessing they are the same.
2. Drop the engine and trans as one piece.
3.Integrate the diesel components( glow plug/relay/timer, and DCP and arm controller) into the gas harness. Why? I lost my A/C, power windows, defrost, radio, and other components. Now i have to back and wire individually and integrate them into my diesel harness. I studied the wiring diagrams for the diesel and the gasser and the everything is COLOR CODED. It can be done. It would save you from taking off the dash and making a mess in an other wise perfectly wired system.

More to come



If you contact "calhoon520", he might tell you how he made his diesel mini harness, as he made one for his 520 diesel project, that way you can use your gasser wiring harness for the rest of the truck, I have never had a all electric 720(windows, ect.), so I just use the diesel harnesses for the ease of it, no headaches, and everything works.
I have been told that the diesel tanks are differant on the inside, gasser tanks are galvanized on the inside, the diesels are not???, this has been discussed quite a bit over the years.

 

 


#36 we1973

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:29 AM

HEY GUYS, I WAS BROWSING THE NET AND CAME ACROSS THIS POST. PULLING THE WIRING HARNESS FROM THE DIESEL IS GOING WAY TO FAR. I HAVE DONE 3 OF THESE CONVERSIONS, AND IT IS NOT NECESSARY. THINGS TO CONSIDER:
ALL THE TEMP, OIL, AND AMP GAUGES WORK BASICALLY THE SAME. YOUR PUMP IS MECHANICAL, ALL THE PCM DOES IS CUT IT OFF AND ON. YOU HAVE A TRUE 12 VOLT GLOW PLUG SYSTEM. IT IS NOT A 6V PLUG LIKE ON THE ISUZUS. AND RABBITS.
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CAREFULLY MARK YOUR MAIN WIRES TO THE TEMP, OIL, ETC. COMPONENTS ON THE GAS ENGINE. MARK THE PRIMARY IGN. WIRE TO THE COIL FOR A PRIMARY WIRE IF YOU NEED IT AND IF YOU HAVE A 85 IT HAS AN ELEC. FUEL PUMP YOU CAN STILL USE TO TRANSFER THE DIESEL WITH.

EVERY SWAP I HAVE DONE, I PLACED THE ENGINE AND TRANS TOGETHER. HOOKED UP THE DRIVE SHAFT, INSTALLED THE CROSS MEMBER, LOWERED THE ENGINE WITH MOUNTS ATTACHED DOWN ON TO THE GAS FRAME AND SPOT WELDED IN 3 LOCATIONS. IF MOUNT GOES BAD, NO PROB A DIE GRINDER AND A FRESH WELDING ROD WONT FIX. AS YOU INSTALL YOUR DIESEL COMPONENTS, YOU WILL FIND THAT FOR EVERY PLACE A GAS BURNER MOUNT HAS A HOLE IN THE ENGINE BAY, THE DIESEL COMPONENTS MOUNT BACK IN THE SAME PLACE. AS FOR THE GLOW PLUGS, GET A PUSH BUTTON, A OLD MODEL FORD STARTER RELAY, 2 GOOD HEAVY BATTERY CABLES, AND SOME CUTTING PLIERS. SELF EXPLANATORY. FOR THE FUEL PUMP: I HAVE OPERATED ALL OF MINE OFF OF A PUSH PULL CABLE. PRIMITIVE I KNOW, BUT THIS IS HOW ALL OF THE IH SCOUTS WITH THE SD33 DIESEL WORK. DONT MAKE IT ANY HARDER THAN IT HAS TO BE. ITS BASICALY A TRACTOR WITH A CAB. MY DAILY DRIVER IS A 85 SWB I PLACED A 81 DIESEL IN. KEEP THE GAS FUEL TANK, DRAIN IT OF COURSE, SWAP YOUR BELL HOUSINGS IF YOU DONT ALREADY HAVE A TRANNY, KEEP THE GAS REAREND. I AVERAGE 38-42 MPG AT 65 MPH AND THE TRUCK HAS NO STRAIN AT ALL.

#37 wayno

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:35 PM

Personally I want to turn the engine on/off with a key, and I want to start it when the light goes out.
If the diesel scout came with a choke cable to turn the engine on/off from a factory, I can understand why they are not in business anymore, that's what people do when they don't have money, or don't want to do it properly in the first place, there is no way a diesel maxima came with a choke cable to start it and shut it off.

I have got 36mpg going 60-65mph, that is the best I have ever done, but all my diesel trucks are kingcabs.

 

 


#38 we1973

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:45 AM

first off the only reason IH quit making trucks was the EPA emission reg. Its hard to regulate the emissions of a 6500 lbs 1/2 ton class truck. They still manufacture 1-1/2 ton rated trucks and above. The reason they came with a pull cable to shut the fuel off was the type of pump nissan had supplied with the sd33. It did not have a pcm. I believe everyone would agree that im not short cutting im simplifying the swap. my shop is not a Nissan plant and my daily drive has served me very well for 8 years it works fine. Im stating the fact that the average joe can do this and it is not a big task.

#39 wayno

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

The diesel nissan maxima came with everything needed to start and shut down the SD33 diesel engine with a key, anything else is a short cut, if that short cut was done by a manufacturer to make the scout, then they should not be making them.
I am positive the diesel nissan maxima came with a DPC module(injection pump control unit), engine controller, and a glow plug timer, and the wiring harness to control them, or something that does the same thing that these parts do, anything else screams backyard mechanic.
I suggested that orizatlan should contact another member here that has made a diesel mini harness, so he can have a truck that works properly without using the diesel harness if that helps keep his ST harness with all the bells and whistles, and that is not I quote, "WAY TO FAR".
I have done at least 3 gas to diesel conversions in 720s, and all have worked properly, with a key, and if a choke cable/button is professional, that is something I will never be.
I usually get along with most people, but this stuff drives me crazy, to me this is like a toggle switch to turn on the ignition, sure it works, but one day it can come back and bite you in the ass.
I have seen lots of 720 diesels for sale with choke cables, and owners describing how to start the truck, you know there are 3 positions for the injection pump you are describing, start, run, and off, not one of these fellows knew this, I wonder if the scout had a sticker on the dash describing the 3 positions, a sticker is a hell of a lot cheaper than doing it right with a wiring harness and components.

 

 


#40 we1973

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:45 AM

AFTER READING THE PREVIOUS FEW POST AND REPLYS BACK TO MY POST 3 THINGS CAME TO MIND. 1 PARTICULAR MEMBER IN THE IS FORUM CANNOT TAKE ANYONE ELSES THOUGHTS ABOUT A PROJECT WITHOUT GETTING THEIR PANTIES ( SOORY LADIES) IN A WAD. JUST BECAUSE YOU TAKE A WIRING HARNESS OF ONE TRUCK AND PUT IT ON ANOTHER DOES NOT MAKE YOU A "DATSUN MECHANIC" THAT MEANS YOUR TO DAMN LAZY OR STUPID TO INCORPORATE YOUR OWN WIRE HARNESS INTO YOUR NEW TRUCK. THE PCM AND GLOW PLUG SYSTEM CAN BE HARD WIRED IN ALSO IVE DONE IT BEFORE NOT HARD. LIKE WAS POSTED HERE PREVIOUSLY, ITS COLOR CODED! GET A SCHEMATIC. 2 YOUR JUST A DUMBASS AND DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT NISSAN DIESELS OR FOR THAT FACT ANY DIESELS. MAXIMAS CAME OUT WITH A LD28 DIESEL. SCOUTS CAME OUT WITH A SD33 INDUSTRIAL DIESEL. THE SD33 WAS OFFERED A TURBO THE LD28 WAS NOT IN THE USA. THE PUMPS ARE DIFFERENT YOU IDIOT.. THE LD28 HAS A PCM THE SD33 DOES NOT. NO JEEP, SCOUT, FORKLIFT,STATIONARY MOTOR OR SAILBOAT CAME WITH A PCM. IT IS AN INDUSTRIAL ENGINE HENCE "SD" SEVERE DUTY. "LD" LIGHT DUTY. THEY HAD TO PUT SD22 IN NISSAN TRUCKS BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE DRIVE OVER HERE. I GUESS A "DATSUN MECHANIC" WOULD KNOW THIS. 3 YOUR JUST A FUNNY A FUNNY GUY. YOU CALL YOUR SELF "DATSUN MECHANIC". ALL BS ASIDE IM SURE YOUR A GOOD GUY AND A DESCENT MECHANIC. YOU HAVE TO BE TO KEEP THIS SCRAP IRON RUNNING. ALL I WAS SAYING IS YOU DONT HAVE TO START FROM A POINT, GO 4 MILES DOWN THE ROAD TAKE A RIGHT GO 50 FEET, TURN RIGHT AGAIN GO 400 FEET AND THEN TURN LEFT. JUST TAKE A RIGHT AND GO 50 FEET. DONT MAKE IT HARDER THAN IT HAS TO BE..