1985 Kingcab Nissan gas swap to SD22 Diesel engine

[orizatlan]

Whats up everyone. This is the first time i post and my goal is to succesfully swap into a diesel engine with your help. I am going to do my best with all the documentation since that seems to be the hardest to find these days. I recently bought a 85 nissan king cab with a carburated gasoline engine. I bought it for 600 bucks and the body is in empecable condition. I have not even tried to start the motor that is supposedly knocking. Right off the bat, if you want this engine, let me know. I also recently acquired 3 1982 diesel datsuns. They are all junked but 2 of them are intact at there engine bays. My plan is to pull the Diesel powertrain and put it into the king cab.

 

My very first question is, Will a SD22 bolt into a 85 nissan kingcab??

 

2nd qustion, Since the diesel engines have been sitting for years, are there any recommended procedures to go through before cranking the engine?

Ive heard to pour a special oil into the top cylinder to seep into the rings and then manually rock the crank until it smoothly turns??

 

I will be posting pictures as soon as i can figure out how.

 

ALL FEEDBACK WELCOME!

[MikeRL411]

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/691-how-to-post-pictures-and-keep-online-photo-albums/

[wayno]

Whats up everyone. This is the first time i post and my goal is to succesfully swap into a diesel engine with your help. I am going to do my best with all the documentation since that seems to be the hardest to find these days. I recently bought a 85 nissan king cab with a carburated gasoline engine. I bought it for 600 bucks and the body is in empecable condition. I have not even tried to start the motor that is supposedly knocking. Right off the bat, if you want this engine, let me know. I also recently acquired 3 1982 diesel datsuns. They are all junked but 2 of them are intact at there engine bays. My plan is to pull the Diesel powertrain and put it into the king cab.

 

My very first question is, Will a SD22 bolt into a 85 nissan kingcab??

 

2nd qustion, Since the diesel engines have been sitting for years, are there any recommended procedures to go through before cranking the engine?

Ive heard to pour a special oil into the top cylinder to seep into the rings and then manually rock the crank until it smoothly turns??

 

I will be posting pictures as soon as i can figure out how.

 

ALL FEEDBACK WELCOME!

 

Welcome to Ratsun B)

The answer to your first question is no, it will not bolt in to your gas frame, and the reason is that the frame mounts are farther forward on the diesel engine frame. :crying:

But you can swap the gas cab on to the diesel frame, the cabs will interchange to a point, I would have to know what diesel frames/cabs you have, are any of the diesel frames kingcabs or long box trucks?

You will also have to use the diesel wiring harness with your diesel engine, as it is very complicated, and virtually impossible to make a diesel harness/loom yourself.

I have done what your talking about several times, to bad your not closer.

As for the engines, I have started several diesel engines with no special procedures, but the ones I have bought did not set for any more than a couple years, if they won't turn by hand, then I don't know what to tell you.

This is one of my diesel projects, it is mostly about it being a 521 kingcab, but I used the 1982 diesel frame and wiring harness in it, you really need the wiring harness with all the components, otherwise you will have to jury rig everything to start it and shut it off.

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/22928-1969-datsun-kingcab-project/page__view__findpost__p__375219__hl__wayno__fromsearch__1

[orizatlan]

Thanks for the quick response. Below are pictures of my 4 trucks. ( My wife would kill me if she saw the smile that brings to my face, haha)

 

 

 

 

 

 

So this is my inventory. I have 3 SD22 powertrains and an extra Z24 gasoline engine and transmission. As i mentioned earlier, shout if you need it.

 

Well im sad to here that i will not be able to use the mounts on the diesel. But welding new mounts sounds way easier than changing out cabins. Especially giving the great condition that my 85 is in.

 

 

 

Can i couple a SD22 to the z24 5 speed transmission?? Just curious

[datzenmike]

NO. Take a look for the starters and you'll see why.

[wayno]

Datzenmike is correct, the Z24 transmission will not bolt to the SD22 diesel engine as the starters are on opposite sides, but why are you asking, as you can remove the front case off of the Z24 transmission and put the diesel front case/clustergear bearing on it, and then it will bolt to your diesel engine.

I am sure with the 3 diesel trucks you have there, one of the diesel trannys will be good.

You need to get one of the engines running first, they are controlled by a DPC module and an engine controller, you need to see if they are working properly by disconnecting the starter wire from the starter, and then having someone turn the key to the start position and looking to see if the arm moves, if it doesn't, you can bypass these units by disconnecting the arm connected to the side of the injection pump, but this will not move the pump into the start mode, but I actually have never worried about that, as will start anyway.

You will also need to see if the glow plug timer works, there is a light on the lower right of the dash cluster, when you turn the key on, it should light up for about a minute, then click off, that is when you are supposed to start the engine, you can also bypass this by connecting a wire from the positive side of the battery and touching one of the glow plugs, as all the glow plugs should be connected together by a wire, they will all warm up, but the jumper wire should be a big one, or it will get real hot fast.

I have to say this, these diesel engine wiring looms are complicated, and making an easy one isn't likely going to happen, some guys have used a button to warm up the glow plugs, I have no issues with that, but the same people use a choke cable to control the engine mode(on-off), this is stupid in my opinion, for one thing, if you have to shut it down, or someone else has to, you have to pull or push that choke cable, turning the key off will not turn it off unless the engine electrical system is in functioning order.

You have 3 kingcab frames there, if even one of them is good, I would transfer the gas cab to the diesel frame, and I would take the best uncut diesel wiring harness, and put it in the gas cab, this is what I would do and have done several times already, if you have a running engine/transmission and a engine hoist and a helpfull buddy for lifting the cab off/putting it on, you can have a running driveable truck in less than a week.

[Cahoon520]

I would swap the gas cab onto the diesel frame like wayno said. Then you dont have to worrry about swaping the fuel tank.If you have any questions about the diesel electronics just ask...I know the diesel electronics inside out and backwards.

[wayno]

Cahoon520 is the only one I know of that has successfully made his own diesel wiring loom, and his is a daily driver as far as I know.

[Cahoon520]

Its more of a weekend driver now. Its great for haulin stuff gonna find out how much drywall it can haul next weekend.

[orizatlan]

So let me see if i understood correctly,

 

Option 1:

is to remove the cab from the 85, which will require:

a. disconnect the engine electrical and components

b. remove the dashboard and all the electrical ????

 

c. then do steps a & c for the 82.

d. then once the 85 cab is on the 82 frame i reassemble the 82 dash into the 85 cab along with all the components??

 

Is this really easier than just swapping out motors?

 

Option 2:

a. Swap out the motors.( which will require motor mount modifications

b. Completer the missing wiring??( which is tricky but not impossible)

** Option 2 does give me the benefit of having all other auxiliary wiring intact ( i.e. lighting)

 

Today will be the first day that i actually put a wrench to all of this. My goal today will be to thoroughly inspect all frames, wiring, and bodies, and come up with an execution plan. I am also going to take a battery and maybe turn one over.

 

Id like to know your thoughts thanks alot.

 

Also, does anybody have a thread of someone who swapped cabs?

[wayno]

I have swapped several cabs, but I never did a thread on that specific procedure.

Basicly you need to swap the good cab onto the best diesel frame you have with or without the engine installed in the frame, you want to use a clean diesel tank also, and it would be much easier to deal with the tank while no cab is on the frame you are going to use.

I remove the cabs with my engine hoist(threw the door) and a car hoist(front of cab) in the photo below, but if you have help, a buddy can lift the front of the cab.

Next you need to use the best diesel wiring harness, you need to remove it from the bad diesel cab and put it into the good cab, this will require removing the dash on both vehicles, the diesel/gas dashes are the same, but the instrument clusters are differant, so you need to use the best dash you have, and also use the best diesel instrument cluster, it will fit in any 720 dash assembly.

When you pull the diesel wiring harness, you will need to unscrew every electrical component and keep it on the harness, it is not easy to get the engine compartment wiring harness threw the firewall hole, but it will go threw the hole, you will have to unplug stuff from the harness to get it threw the hole, just plug it back in before you forget where it goes.

I can remove a complete wiring harness in a couple hours, and replace it in about the same mount of time.

Remember where every ground wire goes, as you need them all.

I think it is a lot easier to just remove and replace things that bolt right in, rather than fabricating things like motor mounts, and creating custom wiring harnesses, especially complicated ones like the 720 diesel harness they sent to the USA.

[Cahoon520]

If your more comfortable building new mounts do it that way. As for the wiring you can just seperate the the diesel stuff like pcm and glow plug stuff then add it to your gas harnes.You should ge a wire diagram for the two trucks it will make your life much easier. This is how I did my 520 diesel swap. Also dont forget to swap fuel tanks, the gas tank has a galvinized coating that the diesel will break donw and plug up your diesel pump and injectors. Here is a site that has lots of infomation on Nissan Diesels. www.nissandiesel.dyndns.org Also check out my build link below.

[orizatlan]

Again thank you so much for the advice. I have taken a real good look at what i have and found that there is no way to use the old frames. All three diesel frames are in poor shape in comparison to my gasser. I liked to idea to swap cabs but this is no longer possible.

 

This leaves me with the option to swap motors out. Take a look at what i found in one of the trucks,

 

 

 

Somebody already went through the trouble of pulling the entire harness out. Its a beautiful umbelical cord! I am planning on pulling the harnesses off the other two trucks as well and take alot of pictures so as not to forget.

 

I like Cahoon520's idea to use my gas harness and integrate the rest. I guess sitting here what i really want is to have the electrical set up for my air condition and lighting. Then i would need to pull the instrumentation on the diesel dashes and install them on the gas dash. Does this sound like i am on the right track??

[wayno]

Perhaps you can cut the diesel mounts off the diesel frame and weld them to your gas frame.

[orizatlan]

Forgot to mention 2 things:

 

1. I just bought the datsun service manual for the 82's and i already had the 85's manual. So i have the electrical diagrams and just need to figure out how ti integrate.

 

If im already going to be in the dash installing diesel instrumentation, Wouldnt it be easier just to use the diesel harness then. What about my alternator? And my idle control when i turn on my compressor? TOO many questions..... sorry

 

2. Good call on the tanks. I was just going to rinse the gas tanks and flush the lines. I did not know that there was a metallurgical difference. I will be sure to pull those as well.

Now... can we bolt the diesel tanks into the gasser? I sure hope so

 

CU soon

Just wanted to throw this one in here.Its my second engine.

[wayno]

The kingcab tanks are the same size, just use a diesel tank with a diesel engine.

I would use a diesel harness, making a diesel stand alone harness is way over my head.

The diesel engines I have seen with air conditioning did not have idle controls, and you have to use diesel alternators with the vacuum pump on the back, as that is how your power brakes get their vacuum to work.

[sergent]

Is there a diesel trans or bellhousing for sale?

[orizatlan]

First things first, Sergent, I do have one transmission that i am willing to part with but cannot garuntee its funtionality. All i know is that when i turn one side, the other turns as well through all gears. And when i put it in reverse it spins the opposite direction. Send me a personal message with your offer and location.

 

So, since the last time i posted i have been able to take out two engines from there bay. They came out so easy!! I literaly took one out in an hour. I am impressed by the simplicity of this machine. I have also been in the dash of one of these and found that taking the harness out is not as hard as i thought. There are connectors everywhere. Its plug and play. At first i was taking all kinds of pictures and notes but when i compared them to the refrence manual they had it all. The manuals i have show every connection and what it is for. I have been comparing electrical diagrams with both the 85 gasser and the 82 diesel and i think i will be able to use the diesel harnes for the most part and plug my gasser auxilary connection to the rest. There will be more to come on that when i get there.

 

Right now i have switched my focus to the white truck that is mechanically intact. This engine was supposedly rebuilt 21k ago and had an electrical problem that the owner did not want to fix because he did not want to spend a dime more on that truck. The rebuilt cost hiw 2000. So he sold it as it was to that man that i bought it froim.

 

So this is what i have done in preparation to start it.

1. Checked the oil. Had to add some and even took off the injectors and poured about half a liter of marvel mystery oil in each of them

2.Checked the cooling system. Had a good level of clean looking antifreeze.

3. I placed the truck in 5 gear and rocked it so as to engage the engine. The result: I smooth turning engine. It did not sound scratchy.

4. Checked the air intake. No clogs.

5. Put the battery in and turned it to the on position. The dashboard lit and the glow plug light lit up and after about 15 seconds went out. At this point i went to the engine and touched them... they were hot!! Good sign.

6. In order to complete the fire triangle(heat/glow plugs, oxygen/air, and Fuel/Diesel), i rocked the truck to find that i can hear the diesel. I had initially thought to use it, but since it has been sitting for year thought to myself... Dont be a cheap bastard and do the right thing. So Today i will be emptying the tank out and pouring fresh diesel, 2 gallons, and a brand new fuel filter. I love that this pump has a manual primer. I am going to empty the tank. And prime/suck the line of the old fuel. Once empty i plan to install the new filter and diesel and catch prime there.

7. I did try to crank it but I think my starter may be stuck. Since i really want to turn this thing on..... this is my plan.... dont laugh

 

I am going to tow this truck at about 20mph, turn key to on position ( glow plugs on), and throw it in 3rd or 4th gear. Tow it till it combusts!

 

Dont worry, I have done this many times. For those of you who know, this is a sure way to turn your engine on forcefully.

 

Wish me luck.

[orizatlan]

I forgot to mention that the electrical problem was the DPC. The engine was stuck on START. So lucky me i have 3 more, and have already tested them. WHen i turn the key, the controller moves the arm the the right position. YEah!!

[sergent]

PM sent. By the way reading your top post , I have used marvel mystery oil in cylinders before ( in american v8s) before rolling them. Seems to work.

[wayno]

When you change the fuel filter, and I am talking about the one that spins on in the engine compartment, be sure to fill it to the top with diesel and then put it on, you should also run a pre-filter before it gets to the lift pump, that it the pump that the manual primer is connected to, that is your fuel pump.

If the fuel is truely only a year old, it is likely good, as I have started trucks that have sat for over a year, and they started right up.

The starter is kinda hard to get in and out, but try tapping on it with a long bar and a hammer on the end where the brushes are, not hard though, and make sure you have a real good battery cable from the battery to the starter, this seems to be a necessity, maybe it's because it is so long, also try using a remote starter trigger, for some reason, the ignition key can be the issue sometimes, actually the key is the issue a lot, not sure why.

 

Once you get it started, it will likely smoke a bit(white smoke), don't worry about it unless it still smokes after it is warmed up, it will likely quit smoking after it quits missing, as white smoke is unburnt fuel.

 

Make sure the vacuum hoses going from the injection to the carb looking thing are good and connected, as the injection pump is in the floored position until you get it started and create enough vacuum to pull it back to the idle position.

 

Here is a little info, even though these engines have a 22 to 1 compression ratio, they actually turn over easy by hand, it baffled me that when replacing my clutch cover/disc, I had to hold the flywheel still to tighten the cover bolts, never had that issue with a gasser engine, but when you drag it down the road, it will not likely turn that easy fast, as it is a 22 to 1 CR, you could likely leave black marks on the road.

[orizatlan]

Wayno.... you were right! I was not able to turn the engine by towing it. Why is that? I know its not stuck. So here i am towing it down the road at about 20mph and when i put it in 3rd i felt something. i thought the engine was engaging. I wasnt leaving black marks probably because i had the other sd22 in the back of the bed. So i probably towed it about 300 yds or so when i told my sidekick to stop becuase i smelt something burning. Guess what it was... the clutch. Si i was not able to transmit the power from the tires to the engine. I even tried it in 5th, and no luck. Back to the drawing board.

 

The reason we had inititially tried to turn it on this way was because the starter did not want to turn. i connected the battery and all the lights in the dash turned on... but no crank. But i also noticed that right before we began towing there were no lights working in the dash? But i made sure the pump was in the right position. So after the towing yesterday know my plan is to start it the right way. I pulled the starter and had it tested... PASSED. And know i have no lights in my dash. I also changed out my ingition to one that works and check the continuity at all phases, its good.

When i place the ignition in the ON position nothing happens. Just the other day all the lights came on and my plugs were hot. So i have also performed the following test.

 

http://asavage.dyndns.org/Nissan/display1.php?Path=720/FSM_1982&db=Nissan&table=720_FSM_1982&Page=20-043

 

And all good here.

 

I guess my question is, why wont my starter crank??? Please help me guys

 

Puling the engine on the second truck,last weekend

 

This is the engine we took out in an hour.

 

Just a pic of the engine apart from the trans and it harness.

 

 

Also, can somebody tell me what a fusible link looks like. Becuase i followed my electrical diagram on the starter circuit to find just a normal connector as show in the picture above. Tom me its just a normal connector. Is this a fusible link?? I know a fuse when i see it in line but this does not look like one.

[wayno]

This is what the fusible link looks like on the diesels.

 

And this is where it is located, it is right on the positive battery post, it clips on, if you feel the wires with your fingers, you can feel when one is blown, as it is soft and rubbery, you cannot feel the wire inside anymore.

Check for power in all 4 wires, just unplug them from the connectors at the white plugs, and check the black and green wires for power, all 4 should have power, if no power, the fusible links are toast, but you should have at least 2 more.

Does the engine turn over by hand?

I hope you turned it by hand first.

When you try to start it with the key, does it click?

If it doesn't click, pull the starter exciter wire, have someone turn the key to the start position and check for voltage, if no voltage, then either a fuse has blown, or possibly the fusible link got smoked, I do not beleave you cannot buy fusible links anymore, but I have not actually tried to tell the truth.

[wayno]

It likely won't turn over for many reasons, I have push started mine before, but at walking speed.

Lets figure out why the engine won't turn over with the starter first, as it is best to start it that way if possible.

[wayno]

BTW, you can bypass the fusible links, but be very carefull, you don't want a fire, if they blew, it was for a reason.