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Looking for input on alignment for an AutoX setup?? 510


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#41 Uber Deaf One

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

UberDeaf - Uh oh... now it looks like I have to go to this months event...(thatll teach me to open my big mouth)... even still - you ARE missing a bar...just a rear bar...instead of a front one :P. part of the reason Im not @ 1100lbs in the rear is YES they are great for autox , just not so much on the street, as you have found. I like a little understeer, which is infuriating sometimes on tight courses, but provides me great confidence on windy roads.

When I first got into this, someone in the datsun world much wiser than I BEAT into my head that if I insisted on daily driving my car, there are some trix I just shouldnt do. Furthermore - he forced me to acknowledge that my car would never truly be competitive until I gave up trying to compromise. You cant have your cake and eat it too... So now, I get my ass handed to me by prepped cars and try to hold off all the street-shod dailies. In that perspective my setup has been a stunning success. Won class in 2010 by being CONSISTENT. I think I hit 2 cones all year... never missed an event. Snapped the crankshaft of my L20b (long story) while street driving it, and salvaged my season with a BONE stock L16...pulled out of a KA converted wagon while still running perfectly and under 200k. (shame shame shame)

A thought - your 3.70 rear has more affect on MPG than the tires....your MPG will not be affected so long as you run tall enuf sidewalls in the REAR (14 with a 60 is what you see in my shots) . With the adjust-ability you have up front, you COULD run a much smaller front tire and raise the perches a little to compensate for the difference in tire height OR have a rake and its resulting image / handling. A 195 rear tire will fit under rolled fenders even if overlow. (205s kinda fit too), and Im sure yours are probly rolled...

I just mismatched sidewalls once I got tired of revving at 70mph and dealt with the rake while daily driving, then swapped to matching 45s for events.

There are advantages to a shorter front tire in relation to handling and nimbleness.(back to the moment of inertia madness) There were aspects of it that i really enjoyed, but the Toyos i was using were not the best tire I have ever had.

Part of my 510 weirdness is not cutting it up more than I have to... I mention all this as an alternative to relocating your upper mounts.

raising the control arm mounts is so beneficial.. Im not to that point yet either. Not really low enough to need it. Dunno if you knew, but one small but KILLER difference in the 1969 front xmembers is that they have higher front mounts for the arms. Good luck finding one though, unless you find a whole 69 that hasnt been muffed up. A friend of mine went to great pains to do the same thing you have and make it inconspicuous....


There are no competitive thoughts from me so don't feel like you "have" to go :P I'm going for a chance to finally let loose with my car. I go nuts having to drive normally on the streets. :(



Compromising on things for a daily driven 510.... I know nothing about that :P Despite the stiff suspension setup my car actually rides very nice on the street. My dad has a bad back and loves driving it lol. I do plan on getting sound deadener and carpet though.



Consistency is the only way to win championships ;) Very impressive!



Yeah I don't want to deal with switching wheels around, and having the car look funky on the streets. It is daily driven after all... it has to look good! lol Just gonna stick with the 15s. 205-50-15 is a very popular tire size, I can get the best street tires out there.



I understand your thoughts about cutting the strut towers. I'm still not completely decided yet myself. I honestly never ever ever ever ever EVER plan on getting rid of the car, so...



I didn't know that about the '69 crossmembers... that's awesome lol. If I ever come across one I'll definitely snag it...



What class would I be in with UFO??

#42 Uber Deaf One

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:59 PM

Uber - That is a great streetable stance for hard drivin'! Too low and its all wrong except the "look". Note that you are in un-even gravel and not high centered ...lol Got another 4 point sitting around for me??? The vids are great, my only one is in the rain and not too exciting. Looks like you correct for oversteer pretty quickly... driving with understeer isnt as fun, but it forces me to be disciplined about my lines.


I do have another 4 point, but it's not installed. I have a normal seat on the passenger side with just a lap belt. :( I am planning on getting another Corbeau seat eventually.

4 door power!

#43 68Datsun510

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:52 AM

That paint is original if you can believe it!!! Boaty on here buffed it out years ago from 40 years of oxidation.

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#44 O.D.D.

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:59 AM

That paint is original if you can believe it!!! Boaty on here buffed it out years ago from 40 years of oxidation.


Damn Im Super jealous now (ina good way).... my car has its original orange paint (or whats left of it), but as a whole its not in nearly that good lookin.

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#45 68Datsun510

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:12 AM

Have someone who KNOWS what they are doing hit it with a buff!!! It comes back!

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#46 O.D.D.

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:17 AM

Uber - You DO have me on tire availability. My car came with 15s and I sold em off when I got my 6 spokes. Street tires can be annoying sometimes...I was going through a set of Falken RT 615s about every 11-13 mos. Toyos lasted 9-10 but I drove them past that. Now I have a set of $330 semi-blah Kuhmos that squeal like mad but are "real" tires i dont have to sweat in the rain, and they will last forever since I am now trying like mad to keep myself supplied with take offs and freebies. The V700s are almost shot...well...they are already shot but I can still drive em faster than street tires, so they work in my book. I got HOOKED up with a set of Cooper Lites that are from the IMSA ultralite racing series. A few friends went to Seca and came home with a whole truckbed full, but they are 13x7 and I will need rims first. Going to KILL the V7s by end of year, so I am about to be cornered into buying or borrowing rims.

You would be in OSP not VSP because of your driveline (its not over 25yrs old). OSP tends to be Dominated by AWD cars....UFO runs their classes by a semi-dated version of SCCA classifications. They only real difference is they have made "V" distinctions for cars over 25yrs old.

VS vintage stock (has to be orig components throughout)
VSP vintage street prepared (25yo street legal and register-able cars on DOT R or lesser tires)
VP Vintage Prepared / Vintage Production (all setups allowed, plexi, tube frame, etc.... all tires open)

This came about, i am told, because of SCCA's rules classifying modestly prepped 510s into OSP / EP which was causing people to grumble. Just putting a 5spd in a stock 510 is enough to get bumped to a higher class in SCCA and it makes for VERY uncompetitive classing sometimes. My car is technically an OSP car in SCCA, I think, and It would take a miracle for me to be anywhere near competitive there. SPEC-BRE has an EP/VP car for certain (hence the lettering on the car) But it could probably get away with running VSP based on its tires.

"There are no competitive thoughts from me so don't feel like you "have" to go :P I'm going for a chance to finally let loose with my car. I go nuts having to drive normally on the streets. :( "

- Im Just talking a lil smack for fun, dont take me too seriously . Im an L motor guy so you have to understand - I'm a little weird. I didnt mean to come off like " IM GOING TO GET YOU SUCKER" or anything... hope I didnt.

Like i said earlier - my favorite part of the day is getting Pizza @ mountain mikes with the datsun guys afterwards, so if yo u go - please come to that too! 2 of our regulars are now married and doin the kid thing...and a 3rd moved to LA for school.... so we need some new comrades!

"....He Drove a DATSUN, an automatic....the Radio a Blarin' static...." Lyrics from Over the Electric Grapevine - PRIMUS


#47 O.D.D.

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:32 AM

Have someone who KNOWS what they are doing hit it with a buff!!! It comes back!


Blew my mind what a day of old school 2stage buffing and polishing compound did for mine!

Sadly the front got so chipped up from driving it, I painted it black, and my drivers door has the 13 on it over a big black patch to hide a major bit of door damage done by a fucking mechanic working on a car next to mine ( I DONT want to talk about it). :mad:

... I buffed and buffed, but the body damage wouldnt go away.....lol sob lol

"....He Drove a DATSUN, an automatic....the Radio a Blarin' static...." Lyrics from Over the Electric Grapevine - PRIMUS


#48 Uber Deaf One

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:41 PM

Yep, I run in OSP with the SCCA... my competition? A Shelby Cobra (not sure if real or a kit car) on fat slicks. I think with a set of good slicks and the suspension dialed in, I might be able to give him a run.

I'm down for some pizza!

How much does UFO charge? I've never done a UFO event before.

I'd rather have a big dent in my door than rust issues lol. I have 2 spots that need patch panels before this winter.

#49 68Datsun510

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

Im an OSP car as well, 4 wheel discs make me an outlaw lol

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#50 510T

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:00 PM

All this auto-x talk has me jonesing to get out there with you guys. Where can I find some info on this and future events in the bay area? I kind of built my car with auto-x in mind but have never been out to one yet.

#51 Uber Deaf One

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

http://www.baautox.com/

#52 O.D.D.

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

BABA - Norcalufo.org. and .... probly the coolest idea I have seen related to autox ....motorsportreg.com. the
vette club and pca use them - I just used it for first time recently...

"....He Drove a DATSUN, an automatic....the Radio a Blarin' static...." Lyrics from Over the Electric Grapevine - PRIMUS


#53 Uber Deaf One

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:01 PM

Didn't know there was a UFO website. sweet!

#54 O.D.D.

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:02 PM

Uber - ENTRY: $35.00 per person; $60.00 a couple (in the same car) - CASH Only Non-members, UFO Members may write a check.
UFO Membership $15.00 per year

'68 - I have not been out with SCCA, I would like to do a PCA event first. I hear they are very well run and laid back. Modifying your 510 without looking at the SCCA rule book first pretty much means you end up in OSP. The ease of modification of these cars makes such a catch 22 when it comes to classing them ... hotrod shit just doesnt groove with SCCA rules.

I daydream about making an auto-x club kinda inspired by LeMons racing. Instead of doing year long points battles, make it a single day - single win - setup. Give them themes and maybe organize the cars differently each time so ANYONE could come out a winner depending on the days rules. Do both times classing and peer judging stuff in parallel. (a drift group ...paint/body judging...underdog winner...most out of place car...etc). cars are numbered already and it makes voting easy. Maybe only do 4 events a year, but make them a big deal.

Another thing I have thought of is Handicapping in Auto-x. If you ran year long events and one person is winning every time, with each class win you add .25 sec to their best time.... forces the fast to go faster in order to keep winning. like ballast in WTCC. In a 12 event year , you would have to beat your opponents by 3 seconds to keep first at the end of the year if you placed 1st at each event throughout... I think this is a fair way to level things out and keep low budget racers interested.

"....He Drove a DATSUN, an automatic....the Radio a Blarin' static...." Lyrics from Over the Electric Grapevine - PRIMUS


#55 O.D.D.

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:05 PM

Even in VSP there are cars that get trailered in, and huge 2 second gaps between racers sometimes...cars that could easily compete at higher levels dominate there on limited tires alone....thankfully it takes showing up to every event to get somewhere in the end. so far the overdominant cars have not made it out enough to take the class from its regular competition.

"....He Drove a DATSUN, an automatic....the Radio a Blarin' static...." Lyrics from Over the Electric Grapevine - PRIMUS


#56 O.D.D.

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:11 PM

All this auto-x talk has me jonesing to get out there with you guys. Where can I find some info on this and future events in the bay area? I kind of built my car with auto-x in mind but have never been out to one yet.


I know at least one person that drives down from NAPA to marina for events...with a little finagle-ing you 2 could probly meet and cruise down together, makes the trip waay nicer. There are plenty of SFR events sho... just not with UFO

"....He Drove a DATSUN, an automatic....the Radio a Blarin' static...." Lyrics from Over the Electric Grapevine - PRIMUS


#57 O.D.D.

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:18 PM

Btw those camber bolts are known to slip no matter what you do....


What did you mean by this,,,? I am not familiar with them whatsoever... kept meaning to ask and forgetting. Are they eccentric bolts to offset the inner part of the control arm? if so.... why use them and why do they slip??? The parts pictured looked to me like they were heim jointed in the inner pivots, mine are done like this after a fashion - just lopped off the end of the arm and welded a plate with a threaded joint in it to make adjustable track and a range of motion fore and aft for the arm...

"....He Drove a DATSUN, an automatic....the Radio a Blarin' static...." Lyrics from Over the Electric Grapevine - PRIMUS


#58 Uber Deaf One

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:27 PM

Uber - ENTRY: $35.00 per person; $60.00 a couple (in the same car) - CASH Only Non-members, UFO Members may write a check.
UFO Membership $15.00 per year


Is a membership required?

#59 68Datsun510

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:11 PM

What did you mean by this,,,? I am not familiar with them whatsoever... kept meaning to ask and forgetting. Are they eccentric bolts to offset the inner part of the control arm? if so.... why use them and why do they slip??? The parts pictured looked to me like they were heim jointed in the inner pivots, mine are done like this after a fashion - just lopped off the end of the arm and welded a plate with a threaded joint in it to make adjustable track and a range of motion fore and aft for the arm...


It was discussed at length on the bluebirds mailing list among veteran racers and autocrossers. No matter how tight you get it, it moves. Its just an eccentric bolt you tighten up on the arm. Look at t he pictures i posted at the top of page 2, those were pics of spec bre suspension.

The kind you speak of, truly heimed or adjustable arms are fine, eccentrics are crap.

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#60 O.D.D.

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:56 PM

It was discussed at length on the bluebirds mailing list among veteran racers and autocrossers. No matter how tight you get it, it moves. Its just an eccentric bolt you tighten up on the arm. Look at t he pictures i posted at the top of page 2, those were pics of spec bre suspension.

The kind you speak of, truly heimed or adjustable arms are fine, eccentrics are crap.


Ok - I guess I knew that already (sort of) As I had been warned to stay away from them in any form, (hence the heimjoints) especially on the rear of the car as being gremlin inducing and not enough adjustment. wandering around would make for some good gremlins for certain.

...I was lucky enough to get to know someone IN PERSON (lol) when I first got my car, that knocked a lot of sense into me before I really even understood half of what I was avoiding. :thumbup: :blush:.

"....He Drove a DATSUN, an automatic....the Radio a Blarin' static...." Lyrics from Over the Electric Grapevine - PRIMUS