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Replacing Piston Rings......HELP Please.


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#41 MikeRL411

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 01:30 PM

Datsun engine blocks are tough and the factory piston rings are chosen accordingly. Wear occurs primarily on the rings, not the walls. I rebuilt my type R, 1600 cc, at 120,000 miles and measured only 5 thousands wear on the block. That's one reason Datsun only stocked original rings, you couldn't get 20 thousands over thru the dealer. You needed to go to a rebuilder who would overbore and supply aftermarket ring sets. Later things changed for the racers,think 40 thousands over 2 liter forged pistons in a type R with the 2 liter crank and rods [this kit used to be available thru NISMO in the 80s.]

#42 agentalpha

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 11:25 PM

GREAT job!
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#43 sdsurf

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:06 AM

I did not pull the motor, So the tools I used were:


Plastigage
Posted Image


Ok I am not familar with the plastigauge. I am about to reassemble my engine (never done this) and want to do it right.
1. Where do I get one?
2. How is it used.

3. my engine is .040 over. How do I check the gap for the piston rings or does this stay the same?

I may have more questions through this process so bear with me.
'72 PL521 - current, L20B swap
*Southwest Datsun pick-ups*



Man I hope my wife loves me...

hopefully the crank only needs polishing :D


#44 kgrantkey

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:25 PM

I would never have tried this. Of course I can pull my motor and trans in about 1.5hrs. I would be far too afraid of premature bearing failure due to metal debris.

If anyone has ever worked with marine blocks they almost never have ring ridge, due to high nickel content that limits the wear.

Plastigage is easy to get, just ask whoever you get your rings from. I would change my oil more than required due to the inability to wash the block, especially the 1st 30min of run time.

#45 Wharf Rat

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 03:27 PM

Good thread, all I will add is try for a 45 degree angle on your cross hatch, takes a bit of practice with speed of drill and the ol' in an out stroke. Also I like the ball type hone but a good std. one does fine too. When done honing I take dish detergent and hot hot hot soapy water and wash the clyinders down then blow dry and wipe down with Marvel mystery oil or they will rust instantly, this gets rid of all the particals. You can use a couple cans of brake cleaner in a pinch.
PEACE WRAT

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#46 Madness

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 08:43 AM

Can anyone tell me whats in an aftermarket Re-Ring Kit? All it tells me is "rings and premium valve seals included"

#47 datsunaholic

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:35 AM

That's exactly what's in the kit. For a 4-cyl, that's 4 sets of oil rings, 8 compression rings, and 8 valve stem seals.

Of course, you also need a need gasket kit (or piece together the necessary gaskets) which pretty much means the whole engine. Which also comes with the valve stem seals.


The best way I have found to check ring gap is to stick EACH ring in the bore you're going to install it in (individually), push the ring down with the piston (that keeps it level) so that it is in its normal travel area, then measure with a feeler blade. You do NOT want overly tight clearance... you'll break a ring, break a piston ring land, and/or gouge the cylinder walls. On engines that get hot (like racing or engines set up for performance above the factory spec) you want rings a little looser (more gap).
-----------------------------------------------------

Well, at least he gets 24 hours notice. That's more than most of us get. All most of us get is, "Mind that bus!" "What bus?" _splat_!

#48 Madness

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:11 AM

Damn that's a lot more than i thought i was going to pay for rings... :blink:

oh well


edit: wait a minute. A piston ring set is 28-38 bucks and valve seals are about 12 bucks... why the hell is the ring kit so high? All i can think is that it includes a gasket kit, which is about 72 bucks.

Edited by Madness, 19 May 2009 - 10:17 AM.


#49 datsunaholic

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:52 AM

It's quite possible that it includes the gaskets. I haven't seen that before, but I tend to piece the stuff together off ebay rather than buy "kits" at retail prices.
-----------------------------------------------------

Well, at least he gets 24 hours notice. That's more than most of us get. All most of us get is, "Mind that bus!" "What bus?" _splat_!

#50 Madness

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 01:13 PM

Email from rock auto!

Dear Bart,

Thank you for the email. I can certainly tell you what is included with this
kit. Here is a breakdown for you:

-Connecting Rod Bearing Set (Sealed Power Part # 4-67230CP)
-Economy Piston Ring Set (Sealed Power Part # E-366X)
-Gasket Kit (Sealed Power Part # 260-1060: Includes valve stem seals)

Please let us know if you have any other questions.

Thank you!

Justin O
RockAuto Customer Service

phone: (608) 661-1376
fax: (608) 836-5694
toll-free: 1-866-ROCKAUTO (1-866-762-5288)
http://www.rockauto.com



even more than i thought.

#51 hang_510

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 02:21 PM

Damn that's a lot more than i thought i was going to pay for rings... :blink:


:lol: i just (RE)paid $11 (ea!) to replace the broken oil ring.
i got 2 so i dont break another one :cursing:


if your rod bearings are 0.25mm over, i have a spare set avail (clevite)

"I can spend time working on the Dattos, or wasting money at the strip club. You make the call." :D


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#52 Apollo77

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 04:24 PM

i currently have the pistons and bearings out of my truck and im ready to put them back in. however i cant seem to remember if the lil notches for the rod bearings were. both top and bottom have a notch, do they both go on the same side or opposit sides?
DV

#53 datzenmike

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 06:04 PM

Look on each side of the rod and the cap. The number one rod will have a 1 stamped in it just above the rod cap. The rod cap will also have a 1 on it. They should be assembled with the 1s together on the same side. Like this:

R
O
D

1
-----
1
ROD
CAP


BTW the piston top will have a notch on it. Face the notch toward the front of the motor. Here is a Z24 and a KA piston. The dot at 12 o'clock on the first one and the dot at 7 o'clock on the other would be facing toward the front of the motor.

Posted Image

Edited by datzenmike, 14 July 2009 - 06:06 PM.

Posted Image

#54 Dime Dave

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:10 PM

Posted Image

Ok I am not familar with the plastigauge. I am about to reassemble my engine (never done this) and want to do it right.
1. Where do I get one?
2. How is it used.

3. my engine is .040 over. How do I check the gap for the piston rings or does this stay the same?

I may have more questions through this process so bear with me.


Here let me try and help you out.

Plastigauge is used to determine bearing clearance. It can be bought at most any parts store. It is a "waxy" string that comes in a paper sleeve. The piece of paper in the photo that is being held to measure the width of the crushed plastigauge is actually the wrapper it comes in. Plastigauge comes in varying ranges. This one is .001 to .003 which is good for most installs. It is also available in .002 to .005

How to use it.
Pull the bearing cap off the bearing you want to check. Cut a section of plastigauge off that will fit across the bearing surface. Cut right thru the wrapper, don't try to remove the wax string you'll have a mess, just cut it in the wrapper. Once cut, open the wrapper and slide the plastigauge onto the bearing journal. Install the bearing cap and torque it to the proper amount. Be extremely careful not to move the bearing on the journal. If you do, start all over again because the reading will not be correct. Once properly torqued, remove the cap and use the section of wrapper to compare the crushed width of the plastigauge to the closest matching "bar" on the wrapper. The bearing shown in this photo measures at .002" clearance. Compare the number you get to the shop manual, if it is within the tolerance range, then you are good to go. If not or you have scoring on the journal and/or bearing new bearings and a turned crankcrank shaft will be needed.

Dave Patten
Dunbarton, NH

Dave@FutoFab.com
www.FutoFab.com
 

The Modification Theory -

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#55 datzenmike

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:35 PM

Dave, sdsurf's post is a bit stale but your info is not. :D
Posted Image

#56 MicroMachinery

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 07:46 PM

Hey, I have a question to add to this. It was slightly mentioned earlier, but I have an L18 in my 71 Wagon that smokes BAD. The engine was supposedly rebuilt 10k ago, so I'm thinkin' perhaps they put a ring in upside down. You can't really do this in-car procedure in a 510, can you? Seeing as how the crossmember has the engine mounts attached? Actually, as I'm writing this, I'm thinking of all new reasons why I shouldn't attempt this(One of which being that I'm about to do a KA swap :cool:).
But anyhow, I saw that this wasn't really touched on much, but for the sake of the fact that it is SUPER important, what do you say to justify honing the block with the crank and bearings still in? I mean, the cuttings and the oil are bad news for your happy lil' bearings. Is there anything you could maybe suggest, that would be an easier alternative to flipping the entire truck upside down? :unsure:

#57 nismo dr

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 10:16 PM

Really cool info from Wiseco

http://www.wiseco.co.../RingEndGap.pdf

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#58 herculesinwyoming

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 03:45 PM

Hey, I have a question to add to this. It was slightly mentioned earlier, but I have an L18 in my 71 Wagon that smokes BAD. The engine was supposedly rebuilt 10k ago, so I'm thinkin' perhaps they put a ring in upside down. You can't really do this in-car procedure in a 510, can you? Seeing as how the crossmember has the engine mounts attached? Actually, as I'm writing this, I'm thinking of all new reasons why I shouldn't attempt this(One of which being that I'm about to do a KA swap :cool:).
But anyhow, I saw that this wasn't really touched on much, but for the sake of the fact that it is SUPER important, what do you say to justify honing the block with the crank and bearings still in? I mean, the cuttings and the oil are bad news for your happy lil' bearings. Is there anything you could maybe suggest, that would be an easier alternative to flipping the entire truck upside down? :unsure:


alot of mistakes could cause that, i have seen a job where the guy lined all the pistion ring gaps all in on line and not staggered, it was not a good idea,

#59 JustinB

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 09:02 AM

Definitely use the plasti-gauge. I thought I'd save time without it and just got my engine completely re-built and put in. Knocks like a sonofabitch. Now I have to pull the whole damned thing back out and figure which rod bearing is out.

Re-ring kits usually have gaskets.

Check and double-check your tolerances. Double-check each internal nut/bolt and make sure it's torqued to spec. It'll save time in the long run, and you can be sure you did it right instead of being like my dumb-ass and doing it twice.

#60 screamer510

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:56 PM

Email from rock auto!

Thank you for the email. I can certainly tell you what is included with this
kit. Here is a breakdown for you:

-Connecting Rod Bearing Set (Sealed Power Part # 4-67230CP)
-Economy Piston Ring Set (Sealed Power Part # E-366X)
-Gasket Kit (Sealed Power Part # 260-1060: Includes valve stem seals)

even more than i thought.


Sorry for the old bump, but this is what I'm looking at.
Has anyone ordered this or used similar "Sealed Power" parts?
This thread was extremely helpful. The last engine I did this to was the A15 in my 1981 210 wagon back in 1997, and it was good for a refresher!

Dan
Posted Image
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