Need some welding/fabrication frame repairing advice

[goonfan]

Okay quick background. My Z got hit, body shop did a bad job, I'm fixing it, I've cut out all of the old repair, I'm ready to weld in a new section.

 

So in order to weld in the new section I cut all the bad crap out and this is what I'm left with. Try as I might I still did some damage to my sheet metal removing the work they did, not all my fault though their "tacks" were monstrous and I had about zero chance of drilling them out.

 

 

Jacked up upper rail, I think it pushed up a bit, mostly it's pushed in towards the motor. To fit the fender on I've been pulling the rail out and slightly down using a come along tied off to my truck, that's what that big hole is for towards the front of the rail.

 

 

 

You can see how mangled the upper rail is here.

 

 

In this shot you can just make out the crack where it's all bent and fatigued.

 

 

 

It starts getting complicated here. The piece that the fender mounts to was from my car so I left that in place, look at the giant ass holes I had to make to get the tacks out in the one area where I could actually drill them out.

 

 

 

 

 

Lower frame area is not going to be much of a challenge, still needs to be preped a bit more though.

 

 

It's a little ugly here, I can work this out though.

 

 

Here are some shots of what i cut of of a 260Z, late model.... I'll need to cut out some of the extra bracing but that won't be too hard. What I'm a little worried about is the pitting on what would be the inside of the frame rail. This IS the best patch panel I could find, I've been at all the local JY's over and over for months.

 

 

 

 

 

Cross section of upper rail.

 

 

Top view with fender mounting tabs.

 

 

 

Upper core support tie in. I'll be replacing the upper support on both sides of the car, nothing wrong with the other side just need a new upper.

 

[goonfan]

Figured I break that big ol picture post up some....

 

Here's my problem. Should I cut only the section of the car that missing out of my donor part? Basically the inner fender, reaching up under the fender mounting tabs and tieing into the strut tower and the upper rail. Or should I just cut the whole beat ass upper rail out and weld in a new section for the donor?

 

The rails of both are in about the same shape. At first I was worried about welding on structural parts but after looking at the cross section it looks like it would be doable. I'm also thinking that the rail in my car is so fatigued at this point it is probably be the weaker of the two even after welding in the new section. There's also a chance I'll never get the areas I tie into looking right. I've never done a job that big before so I'm apprehensive about getting the new section lined up square.

 

Either way I'm planning to add a strut tower brace, possibly tied into the firewall.

 

I'm all ears!!!

[I'm BLUE]

Do yourself a ... Huge ... favor

 

Go to a metal yard ... 18-gauge to 20-gauge 4ft x4ft sheet metal pieces should hover around $38.00 per sheet ...

 

Before making any more large cuts ... jig and support the frame ... so your frame doesnt shift during repair...

 

If you dont have gas setup ... sheetmetal work can be a pain ... only the heat you need <--- no more.

 

X-brace engine compartment area before doing anything else...

 

Engine frame rails should be replaced in as long sections as possible ... floor pans frame rails arnt nearly as critical but they are lol.

 

Sometimes talking to a good frame shop ... is a really good path ... what a person thinks is impossible to fix or to labor intensive ... they can pull out in 20-30 minutes more or less...

 

Graphing in old metal with more old metal can be a bitch sometimes...

 

Bad-dogg makes some slip over frame rails ... i personally wouldnt replace the engine compartment rails full length unless i absolutely had to ...

 

Get the engine weight off the frame if any more cutting is to be done.

 

[goonfan]

Thanks for the advice. I'm done making anymore cuts, that is unless I decide to cut out upper rail. I'm not replacing the lower rails or pulling them in anyway, I will box the lower section back in but that's it. It is already reinforced on the lower section, the rear of the car has a sub frame of sorts too, no sub frame connectors however. I haven't x-braced anything because it's not square anyway.

 

I was planning to pull to motor out tomorrow and probably the control arm on the passenger side. I've thought about doing a strut tower brace before I start pulling on the frame, what Iahd in mind was something like a trun buckle that I could adjust as I pulled on the rail.

[goonfan]

Just for fun...

 

Here's a shot of my coil over at max height (I left the rear alone) and some ground clearance shots, I drive probably 1" lower. You can see that my driver side fender is bent a bit from a speed bump or something.

 

 

 

 

[I'm BLUE]

Thanks for the advice. I'm done making anymore cuts, that is unless I decide to cut out upper rail. I'm not replacing the lower rails or pulling them in anyway, I will box the lower section back in but that's it. It is already reinforced on the lower section, the rear of the car has a sub frame of sorts too, no sub frame connectors however. I haven't x-braced anything because it's not square anyway.

 

I was planning to pull to motor out tomorrow and probably the control arm on the passenger side. I've thought about doing a strut tower brace before I start pulling on the frame, what Iahd in mind was something like a trun buckle that I could adjust as I pulled on the rail.

_

Sounds like an attack plan!

 

I am not sure entirely what or how your turnbuckle mechanism will work for your needs but please do post pics ! :).

 

If you plan on auto-x or installing a larger front sway bar ... nows the time to repair/beef up a bit both sides of attachment points on the frame rails ( ive had a fatter front sway bar stress the frame and rip it) ... as well as rust preventative on inside of frame ( if budget allows)

 

Sub-frame connecters are fairly simple to make :). install tri-angulated front and rear strut tower bars as well ... you will love the setup and not want to take them off :cool:

 

Get errrr done! !!

[goonfan]

Sounds like an attack plan!

 

I am not sure entirely what or how your turnbuckle mechanism will work for your needs but please do post pics ! :).

 

Get errrr done! !!

 

Thanks! Me neither, lol. I'm gonna have to mock something up and figure it out. Probably just going to weld a big ass bolt onto the ends of some tubing.... no welder, shit makes it a bitch, I'll have to wait until I can go to work to make it.

[goonfan]

I'm buying a welder!!! This is driving me crazy! Gonna take achance on a Everlast 200dx, been following these for a year.

[goonfan]

Sunday was kinda of a wasted day... Started off good, got up early, went downtown to walk the dog, grabbed some coffee, went to Lowes.... after that though things just fell apart and me, my lady and the dog all got real laaaazy.

 

On the upside I bought a welder today, whoohoo! 250 amps ac/dc tig. I'll be able to wrap this up a lot quicker now, no excuses!

[goonfan]

Stoopid life getting in the way of my projects.....

 

Plan to get back on it this weekend. I've decided I am gonna gonna quick and dirty on the strut brace I'll build a permanent solution when I do new camber plates up front.. I'll be using scraps from work to build it.. The thickest tubing I have is only 49thou by 1.5" ill weld this directly to some plate I bolt to the strut towers. This will only help to hold the strut in place while I weld in the new section.

 

ATM I'm thinking I'll cut the upper rail and patch in the new section.

 

I'll try to snap a lot of pics..... Maybe I'll move this to a build thread.

[goonfan]

Wow this is going so slow.

 

I decided I would not bother with the adjustable strut brace for now. None of the ideas I had were ones I wanted to keep, I have a unique camber plate setup that limits my options. What would best is for me to change out my plates for the weld in type. Literally just the plates, I could then weld tabs onto the plate and mount a FSB that would be much more solid.

 

For the frame work I did make some plates that will bolt to my existing plates and I can weld a brace on to those. I took some pics and will get around to posting them at some point this weekend.

 

Also cut up some 1x3 and 2x3 tubing to make my pulling anchors. I don't think I'll have to pull very much though. Everything is actually lined up right now. The fender still sits a little high and there's about an 1/8"-1/4" gap between the upper frame rail and the hood that's NOT there. Once I pull that 1/4" out I can weld the strut brace in than relax the tension, hopefully it will hold. If it doesn't I'll weld it with the tension pulling.

 

I also need to patch that pitted section of the donor piece.

 

Wish me luck! This is the weekend to get it done.

[LaidoutRivi63]

seems like you have a bit of experience fabricating. why not hack off the upper rails completely and build a tubular upper/radiator support. Really, if you already know the needed dimensions, and can get the shock towers in their right locations, the rest is easily fabricated. This is what i will be doing with my rx7. then all of your fender mounting locations can just be made on tabs, or you could make an apron piece that could weld to your tubular upper rails. Sounds more difficult than it is. I know how hard it is to deal with crinkled and work hardened sheetmetal. Replacing the core support in my 510 was a bear until i just decided to cut out the wrinkled inner fender and patch in a new piece. With something as bad as your Z, It might be beneficial starting from scratch.

[goonfan]

lol, well I fooled you! I don't have too much experience at all really, not with this sort of thing anyway.

 

I've thought about doing the whole tube front end thing, maybe at some point I will but not now. I don't have the proper tools for that kind of set up. One day I will have a tubing bender and a good, probably old, band saw. I'd also like to get a torch set up along with a plasma cutter.

 

 

Moved this over to a build thread

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/43785-goonfans-72-240z-resurrection-build/page__p__692155#entry692155