Dirttrack510 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I just bought this head off of E-Gay and it was listed as a 68-73 Datsun 510 head, but when I pulled it from the box it had this "210" casting on it, I bought it to use on a 1600 race engine build I'm going to be doing. :hyper: Soooo... What exactly is it? :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: I expected it to have be an A or U series head when I bought it, so when I saw this "210" casting I was lost. I'm asssuming it'll still fit my block, as it looks like an L series head. I'm hoping this head isn't a pile of :poop: not that I can complain to much, I got it REAL cheap. :D Quote Link to comment
DAT510 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 scroll down to the chart http://olddatsuns.com/ Quote Link to comment
nismo dr Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 worst L series head from olddatsuns "This is the head that came stock on the 510. Tiny 1.125" intake ports, square exhaust ports. 1.50" intake valves and 1.30" exhaust valves. There have been variations reported on the valve sizes. This head is believed to be originally designed for the L-13, and engine never imported to the U.S. These heads are usually avoided on performance applications." Quote Link to comment
Jayden71 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 The flea bay listing would be correct 68-73 510 head. My L16 in mah 521 has it too. Quote Link to comment
nismo dr Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 a 210 and a u67 side by side, tiny ports doesn't even begin to describe how small they are Quote Link to comment
Dirttrack510 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Oh well :( It was only $10.00, so I guess it wouldn't be worth putting large valves in it. I guess the intake ports can't be opened either? If nothing else it was probably worth the money, just for the cam core and the rest of the parts. :D Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 The ports are too small for larger valves. The cam also isn't worth much either. The SSSL16 cam for it is now what you would normally find in the later L20B. Hey, it's an ok head for an L16, makes about 65 hp and was $10. Rockers and springs, lash pads and retainers would be worth that. Strip all the steel out of it and sell for scrap Al. Last I heard it was around $0.60 up here. Probably 15-20 lb of aluminum? Quote Link to comment
Phlebmaster Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 The ports are too small for larger valves. The cam also isn't worth much either. The SSSL16 cam for it is now what you would normally find in the later L20B. Hey, it's an ok head for an L16, makes about 65 hp and was $10. Rockers and springs, lash pads and retainers would be worth that. Strip all the steel out of it and sell for scrap Al. Last I heard it was around $0.60 up here. Probably 15-20 lb of aluminum? I have to say ditto to Mike. While the chamber is small the intake and valves are a big problem for modification. If you can find a closed chamber or "peanut" w58 or A87 head then get it! :-)\ Quote Link to comment
Dirttrack510 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 to be honest, I've never looked at the head on my 1969 510 race wagon. Is this probably the same head that's on that motor? That car is still 100% stock, except for the cam, intake and carb. unrebuilt original engine. Quote Link to comment
Phlebmaster Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 to be honest, I've never looked at the head on my 1969 510 race wagon. Is this probably the same head that's on that motor? That car is still 100% stock, except for the cam, intake and carb. unrebuilt original engine. The 210 head is acceptable for the L16, but not a performance head by any means. As Mike and I mentioned the chambers are inbetween a peanut head and an open chamber head...so it has decent compression but not as much flow as an L20 would require. It depends on wht you are after. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 If absolutely stock it will have a 210 head on it, but if raced the itch to improve performance would have been too much and it might have an A87 or U67.. Quote Link to comment
Dirttrack510 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I built the race wagon, but never swapped the head, so it must still have the 210 head on it. It ran pretty good last year (almost competitive) :P , I can't wait to see what it's like when I change motors for the new season, since it has the crappy head on it now. lol New motor is gonna be a "built" LZ22 with stainless Z valves, full port and polish and 5 angle valve job!!(yummy) Quote Link to comment
crackerjack69 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 You could buy the W58 peanut I have for $60 :D Quote Link to comment
Dirttrack510 Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'll keep that in mind, but I've got a shaved down U67 in the machine shop already getting all the above work done on it. I actually just need to pick it up. I'll probably be looking for another head to get built though as soon as I get the U67 head picked up from the shop. Ideally I want two full race engines built, so If I blow up, I have a backup motor ready to drop in. :D Getting a "head" job is costly. :blush: Quote Link to comment
Dirttrack510 Posted February 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 I know the 210 head won't be any good for racing, but I have another question and figured there's no need for another thread, but I have another question... What's the biggest valves anyone has run in a L series head? I just found this listing and was unaware that you could install 46mm intake with 38mm exhaust valves. I didn't think they would fit in the combustion chamber. I would imagine this would really make a great flowing head. Here's a link to the valves I just found. :unsure: http://www.ebay.com/itm/280436865164?item=280436865164&frommaketrack=true&viewitem=&vxp=mtr Quote Link to comment
crackerjack69 Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 wayno has some big ass valves in his, might ask him what's up. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 The 210 head is acceptable for the L16, but not a performance head by any means. As Mike and I mentioned the chambers are inbetween a peanut head and an open chamber head...so it has decent compression but not as much flow as an L20 would require. It depends on wht you are after. You could buy the W58 peanut I have for $60 :D Even if you find a closed chamber 'peanut' head you will have to mill it down if using it on an L16. A U-67 will need even more off of it. Here's why. The L16 is a very small engine and with a 7cc piston dish the 210 head volume has to be 38.5cc in order to have an 8.58 compression. If you throw a closed chamber head on it (41cc) the compression drops to 8.21 If you throw and even larger open chamber U-67 head (45.3cc) the compression drops even more to 7.72. But the SSSL16 used the 41cc peanut V912 head you say??? Yes they did, but along with it, the engine also ran flattop pistons for a 9.48 compression. Quote Link to comment
DISLEXICDIME Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Even if you find a closed chamber 'peanut' head you will have to mill it down if using it on an L16. A U-67 will need even more off of it. Here's why. The L16 is a very small engine and with a 7cc piston dish the 210 head volume has to be 38.5cc in order to have an 8.58 compression. If you throw a closed chamber head on it (41cc) the compression drops to 8.21 If you throw and even larger open chamber U-67 head (45.3cc) the compression drops even more to 7.72. But the SSSL16 used the 41cc peanut V912 head you say??? Yes they did, but along with it, the engine also ran flattop pistons for a 9.48 compression. ding ding ding this man speaks the truth lol. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Stock L16 was from 8.58 to 9.48 compression? Why so low? Other Datsuns ran 9:0 regular and 10:1 with twin carbs. Are the L heads prone to detonation? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 The SSSL16 never came here so L16s were about 8.5 ish I believe, L18s 8.43 and L20Bs were 8.4 with open chamber heads. Quote Link to comment
Dirttrack510 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Ok, So I have two other heads here at home... This one is an A87, I think it's closed chamber, but I'm not sure... Here's the A87 combustion chamber... Then I have this W58 head... Here's the combustion chamber in it... Are either of these good candidates to build a race head with? I'm pretty sure the W58 is open chamber, so it's gonna be to low of compression for racing... Correct? :frantics: Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 A-87 looks closed and the W-58 is open. Quote Link to comment
Dirttrack510 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 So I should be able to get good compression with the A87 then :D I still wonder what the biggest valves are I can get installed in it. Those 46mm intake and 38mm exhaust valves are awful tempting if they'll fit. :devil: I like big valves :D Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't know what can be done to other heads such as the A87, or the U67, I just know what can be done to a W53, as I had Dan Hart tell me what to do the first time, It can have giant valves installed, mine has big 280Z valves, the intakes on the head can also be ported to match the huge dual SU intake manifold without getting into the water jacket, I use a stock cam on my engines because of my use application, I need torque. You are building a race engine, I would imagine you are at high rpms most the time, the big valves would help I am sure, and a cam would likely help also, this is something I know little about though, other than I have less torque with a RV cam, but torque is not what you are using in your type of racing, I suspect you need HP. I wouldn't be surprised if you could do the same thing to the A87 closed chamber head, that I did to the W53 head, and I suspect that the A87 is more common, but I don't know this for sure. BTW, I don't know what fuel you use in your race car, but if you are going to ever put pump gas in it, you don't want brass seats in the head, if you have a lead foot, brass seats will disappear, I ran out of ajustment inside a year, and had to pull the head, and have hardened seats installed. The 210 head you bought is not what you need, it is what I would call a restricker plate, a bottle neck to the air supply, I suppose if set up properly, it might work, but for you to be competitive, everyone else would need that bottle neck also, which likely is not the case. I built a W53 closed chamber head with stock valves and a RV cam on a stock L20b with dual SUs, that fresh engine couldn't touch that old wore out L20b engine with the W53 head with big valves, and the same SUs. Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is a closed chamber head. This is the head you want to put your money into if it is good, how big are the intake holes? Lets see a photo of that side. Quote Link to comment
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