richw41 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I have read through many of the posts regarding swapping a 4 speed to 5 speed. Some posts say the swap is direct no change with short 200sx(78?ish) 4 speed with overdrive. I have read others that say there is a mounting plate that needs to be shortened. Can someone tell me if they did this? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment
datsunaholic Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 There is no direct swap to a 5-speed in a 521. At a minimum you need to mod the crossmember where the rear mount goes. The trans LENGTH of a short-tail dogleg is the same as the stock trans, which makes it easier than using the larger, longer standard-pattern 5-speed. You also have to decide how you will deal with the different output type- weld up or plug the bolt hole in the original 521 flange, or have the driveshaft modified to use a slip yoke. 1 Quote Link to comment
richw41 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 There is no direct swap to a 5-speed in a 521. At a minimum you need to mod the crossmember where the rear mount goes. The trans LENGTH of a short-tail dogleg is the same as the stock trans, which makes it easier than using the larger, longer standard-pattern 5-speed. You also have to decide how you will deal with the different output type- weld up or plug the bolt hole in the original 521 flange, or have the driveshaft modified to use a slip yoke. 1 Quote Link to comment
richw41 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Is there any info already available that shows these mods? What is a slip yoke? 1 Quote Link to comment
albyneau Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Is there any info already available that shows these mods? What is a slip yoke? A slip yoke is the female part of the driveshaft~ it's smooth -n- round on the outside in all the right places, and strategically placed bumps -n- valleys (splines) on the inside. These engage the output shaft (the male part) with corresponding bumps-n-valleys (more splines) that, when properly sized, make the world go round via the driveshaft. It allows fore/aft movement during suspension travel...:cool: I have a nearly complete 5-speed setup never used on my 521, if you're interested.... 3 Quote Link to comment
jon521 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 http://community.ratsun.net/topic/35311-jons-521-l20b-5-speeed/ i did it, very easy 1 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 http://community.rat...-l20b-5-speeed/ i did it, very easy :lol: :lol: I guess it is easy when you know how, seems hard though when you've never done it before, you make mistakes, realize it won't work, tear apart what you made and do it again till it works, I do shit like that all the time, but that is half the fun of owning a datsun. I am still working on the easy part of my LZ23, i'll get it one of these days. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I have read through many of the posts regarding swapping a 4 speed to 5 speed. Some posts say the swap is direct no change with short 200sx(78?ish) 4 speed with overdrive. I have read others that say there is a mounting plate that needs to be shortened. Can someone tell me if they did this? Thanks! As Doug said the 200sx dogleg 5 speed is the right length so that the driveshaft does not need shortening but you do have to do some very minor work on it. The shifter should closely fit in the same hole in the tunnel too. The rear transmission mount does need to be modified. Clutch The dogleg will fit and is a good match for the smaller L16 in a 521. You don't mention how complete the dogleg is. Does it have the clutch arm, the slave cylinder and pushrod the works it and is there a throwout bearing and sleeve on the end of the clutch arm? If your new dogleg has the slave, pushrod, clutch arm, and release bearing collar all you need is to replace the release bearing with a new one and you are good to go. Let me know if not. The Driveshaft: The 521 driveshaft has a spline that is bolted into the end of the transmission. This spline has a flange that allows it to be bolted to the rest of the driveshaft. Here is a 521 transmission with the flange output spline. The large nut attaches it to the mainshaft of the transmission. The four holes on the flange are to bolt it to the rest of the driveshaft. Remove the nut and the spline slides out and can be used on the dogleg. The dogleg does not need the nut but the hole covered by the nut will leak oil so it needs to be plugged. Here is the dogleg (below) with the 521 flanged spline installed. The spline has been sealed with a 40mm frost plug. (or whatever works for you) Now the transmission can be installed and the rest of the driveshaft just bolts on. Transmission Mount: The 521 mount can be modified and used. I don't have the exact measurements but once the dogleg is in you should be able to measure it much closer. This is the area to be removed and welded back up. Modified mount facing the other way. . 2 Quote Link to comment
merlin Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 if you use a long tail 5 speed, you can use a 620 front shaft instead of the 521 front shaft and it is essentially a bolt up job.. you still need to mod the tranny mount, plus make a spacer plate to move the driveshaft center bushing one inch forward, but no need to have the driveshaft shortened and have a splined yoke mounted. i did it this way as i had a donor 620 wreck. the dogleg is an easier swap, but there is debate that they are a weaker tranny and they are definitely harder to find. 2 Quote Link to comment
merlin Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 i took 3/4 of an inch out, but you have to take the section out wher the lines are... i originally cut it at the tranny mount side and you end up with clearance issues with the top half of the tranny mount. 1 Quote Link to comment
jon521 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 :lol: :lol: I guess it is easy when you know how, seems hard though when you've never done it before, you make mistakes, realize it won't work, tear apart what you made and do it again till it works, I do shit like that all the time, but that is half the fun of owning a datsun. I am still working on the easy part of my LZ23, i'll get it one of these days. haha thats true! i did mock it up and then tear it all apart again. this is the setup i followed Here the transmission mount for a long shaft 5 speed in my 521. The truck has a L-18 engine in it. And this is the other side of it. This is a picture of the yoke I used with the 5 speed. The second picture of the yoke. The part of the mount that bolts to the cross member is just a "L" shaped piece of steel, and it has a short piece of rectangular tube welded to it. Part of the original Datsun trans mount was cut out so it could slide forward and back on the rectangular tube, and before it was welded together, the mount was bolted to the transmission, and lowered on the pieces, and tack welded. Then it was removed, and welded together. this is how it turned out. heres the mount in place this way i think is the best, and most of the fabing can be done before hand. i also used a 620 front driveline 1 Quote Link to comment
d510addict Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I must follow this for my transmission is being kind of skrewy and I want a 5 speed. 1 Quote Link to comment
richw41 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 A slip yoke is the female part of the driveshaft~ it's smooth -n- round on the outside in all the right places, and strategically placed bumps -n- valleys (splines) on the inside. These engage the output shaft (the male part) with corresponding bumps-n-valleys (more splines) that, when properly sized, make the world go round via the driveshaft. It allows fore/aft movement during suspension travel...:cool: I have a nearly complete 5-speed setup never used on my 521, if you're interested.... 1 Quote Link to comment
richw41 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I am interested. How much for the transmission? 1 Quote Link to comment
albyneau Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I am interested. How much for the transmission? Sorry for the delayed post~ I'll PM you this evening with the details.... Scott 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 A slip yoke is the female part of the driveshaft~ it's smooth -n- round on the outside in all the right places, and strategically placed bumps -n- valleys (splines) on the inside. These engage the output shaft (the male part) with corresponding bumps-n-valleys (more splines) that, when properly sized, make the world go round via the driveshaft. It allows fore/aft movement during penetration...:cool: fixed... 1 Quote Link to comment
konig209 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 This thread was fucking useless! 2 Quote Link to comment
datson4life Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 No luck yet? 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 This thread was fucking useless! There's lots of good info for two styles of 5 speed swaps. What do you need? There is no direct swap to a 5-speed in a 521. At a minimum you need to mod the crossmember where the rear mount goes. The trans LENGTH of a short-tail dogleg is the same as the stock trans, which makes it easier than using the larger, longer standard-pattern 5-speed. You also have to decide how you will deal with the different output type- weld up or plug the bolt hole in the original 521 flange, or have the driveshaft modified to use a slip yoke. http://community.ratsun.net/topic/35311-jons-521-l20b-5-speeed/ i did it, very easy As Doug said the 200sx dogleg 5 speed is the right length so that the driveshaft does not need shortening but you do have to do some very minor work on it. The shifter should closely fit in the same hole in the tunnel too. The rear transmission mount does need to be modified. Clutch The dogleg will fit and is a good match for the smaller L16 in a 521. You don't mention how complete the dogleg is. Does it have the clutch arm, the slave cylinder and pushrod the works it and is there a throwout bearing and sleeve on the end of the clutch arm? If your new dogleg has the slave, pushrod, clutch arm, and release bearing collar all you need is to replace the release bearing with a new one and you are good to go. Let me know if not. The Driveshaft: The 521 driveshaft has a spline that is bolted into the end of the transmission. This spline has a flange that allows it to be bolted to the rest of the driveshaft. Here is a 521 transmission with the flange output spline. The large nut attaches it to the mainshaft of the transmission. The four holes on the flange are to bolt it to the rest of the driveshaft. Remove the nut and the spline slides out and can be used on the dogleg. The dogleg does not need the nut but the hole covered by the nut will leak oil so it needs to be plugged. Here is the dogleg (below) with the 521 flanged spline installed. The spline has been sealed with a 40mm frost plug. (or whatever works for you) Now the transmission can be installed and the rest of the driveshaft just bolts on. Transmission Mount: The 521 mount can be modified and used. I don't have the exact measurements but once the dogleg is in you should be able to measure it much closer. This is the area to be removed and welded back up. Modified mount facing the other way. . if you use a long tail 5 speed, you can use a 620 front shaft instead of the 521 front shaft and it is essentially a bolt up job.. you still need to mod the tranny mount, plus make a spacer plate to move the driveshaft center bushing one inch forward, but no need to have the driveshaft shortened and have a splined yoke mounted. i did it this way as i had a donor 620 wreck. the dogleg is an easier swap, but there is debate that they are a weaker tranny and they are definitely harder to find. haha thats true! i did mock it up and then tear it all apart again. this is the setup i followed this is how it turned out. this way i think is the best, and most of the fabing can be done before hand. i also used a 620 front driveline 1 Quote Link to comment
uberkevin Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I did another 5 speed swap.. shorty 720 5 speed with a 620 4 speed front case. Only thing that you really need to do is swap the 620 lower bearing along with case. 1 Quote Link to comment
konig209 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Nobody said Correct amount to cut of or correct length of bracket. no one mentioned throw out bearing collars causing issues if the dogleg was pulled from l20b clutch fork as well as how much to lower the mount cause it hits the top of trans tunnel. Also shifter needed to be heated to be bent. And for that the little bushing needs to be taken off with a high chance of breaking so buy a new one at dealer before hand. there are so many little things. All to take into consideration Sorry i was just pissed took me three days for the swap as well as taking the engine out 3 times 2 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Nobody said Correct amount to cut of or correct length of bracket. This is more or less a custom fit thing. Don't forget this was never in the 521 so better that you install and make your own. What works for A may not be exact for B. no one mentioned throw out bearing collars causing issues if the dogleg was pulled from l20b The release bearing collar is sized to match the clutch not the engine. All L20B doglegs were car engines and fitted with a 200mm clutch.. the same as that used in the 521, even though it is an L16. The collar should remain with the clutch it is used with. clutch fork as well as how much to lower the mount cause it hits the top of trans tunnel. Also shifter needed to be heated to be bent. And for that the little bushing needs to be taken off with a high chance of breaking so buy a new one at dealer before hand. there are so many little things. You can use the 521 clutch arm or fork, it has the threaded rod adjustment. Again the mount is a fit and measure thing. Ideally the driveshaft must remain in the same position to keep the U joints happy. I've bent lots of shifters without heating by placing in a vice and using a length of pipe over the end. I hear ya on the little things. 2 Quote Link to comment
Charlie69 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I cut my mount 2" but I also had a Z20 in my 70 521. In a 71 51 with a L16 1 7/8" On a 69 521 with a L20B I cut it 2 1/16th. This tells you need to measure yours. Quote Link to comment
konig209 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 My trans came out of a 521 with and l20b in it and a dogleg. I pulled my engine used a l16 exedy pressure plate a l16 disk an mated the dogleg to the l16 with no mods to it. Ended up biting me on the ass. It wasnt any fun. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 If the collar was a problem maybe the L20B was previously in a truck, which would have had a 225mm clutch. I put a car L20B in my 521 and used the L16 200mm throw out collar.... worked just fine. L16s and car L20B use a 200mm clutch. 2 Quote Link to comment
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