1972 Datsun 510 Revival

[brodster]

So along with our 521 project, Datwifey and I are also in the process of reviving our 72 Datsun 510: Z20e swap, suspension overhaul, disc brake upgrade, and more to come.

 

The 510 was purchased by my father in the mid 80's and sported a beige/tan paint job. Sometime in the late 80's my dad swapped out the old tired L16 for a JDM L16 with low mileage. In the mid 90's, the car was handed over to me, who knew nothing about Datsuns at the time. I thought racing stripes were cool so I painted it white with red pearl stripes. It looked okay, not really befitting of a 510. We also put on a new Weber 32/36 and redid all the exhaust pipe. Did some brake work, and made it a solid runner for years to come. Then about 6 or 7 years ago, I decided the white and racing stripes were too gaudy. Being broke and having no paint skills, we painted it with flat black rattle cans. My dad painted on some flat grey BRE stripes. Paint looked pretty bad then, and looks worse now.

 

 

Datwifey ran that car for a couple of years before something gave way. Not sure exactly. It has been a non-runner since about 2008.

 

That brings this story up to now.

 

Being tight on money and time, and fully committed to getting our 521 running really well, this didn't leave much room for the 510. We orginally pulled the L16 out for an L20b, but we diverted that to the 521.

 

 

But as luck would have it, we came across a sweet deal. In the 521 I am putting in a rebuilt L20b with an L18efi manifold. When I was looking for the 200sx ECU, a wrecked 200sx with running motor appeared. Long story short, I pulled the Z20e and transmission and picked up an extra set of 200sx ECU hardware. Figured it was a cheap, easy way to get the 510 moving again.

 

 

Somewhere along the way, I traded the stock 200sx 5 speed for a 1980 510 5-speed dogleg, which is a short-tail tranny.

 

 

Now I am in the process of gathering all the parts, cleaning, and test fitting the engine into the car.

 

Apparently, putting a Z20e (or any other Z motor) into a 510 is not as straightforward as an L20b. I found this out after I got the engine. The problem is that a stock Z20e engine sits at a different angle in the engine compartment than the L-Series engines, despite the bottom end being pretty much an L-block. If I were to slap an L-series head onto the Z motor, I could easily get away with using all the L16 equipment to put the engine in. However, I want EFI and I want to do it cheap. Plus I want to try something a bit more challenging than an L-swap. And a bunch of other small reasons.<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

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Because of the engine angle, I basically have two choices since the 200sx Z20e has a front-sump oil pan: 1. Get a new oil pan and pick-up or 2. Reverse the crossmember and lose the swaybar.

 

Initially I tried to find a mid-rear sump Z-engine oilpan, but I don't think they exist. I did pull a 720 Z22 rear-sump pan, but it will conflict with the 510 steering linkage. Then I was considering the crossmember reversal because it sounded easier, but I don't think that is the case anymore. My plan now is to combine parts from the 200sx oilpan and the 720 oilpan. Basically hack out the area on the 720 oilpan where the steering linkage would go, and put in pieces from the 200sx pan. I may lose a bit of oil capacity, but I will to make some measurements to see if it will be a problem.

 

The pickup doesn't seem to be an issue. I took the 720 rear sump pickup and test fit it inside the L16 oilpan. There didn’t seem to be any issues with its location if I were to use it in a mid-rear application.

 

 

 

 

The only other hurdle I am dealing with now is the oil dipstick. The Z20e front sump has its dipstick too far forward to go into the mid-rear sump pan correctly. Fortunately the Z20e block has provisioning for four different dipstick locations. From the looks of it, the left-rear location (position #2 in photo) is just too far back. The stick will probably contact the shallow-rear portion of the pan and bend. But we will have to see when I do the actual fit up. It may work. This also means I would have to go grab a Z22 dipstick and tube because it appears the height of the two locations is off by about an inch.

 

 

 

 

The other location, which will definitely work, is the dipstick hole that is used for the L16/L20b (#3 position in photos) on the right side of the block. The problem is that it puts the dipstick right up into the intake manifold. It is awkward looking, but again it appears like it will work. Again, will have to see when I do the fitup.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DatWifey]

I'm so fucking excited to drive this thing again!! :hyper:

[Sealik]

Good info.

 

Where does the crossmember hit the Z20 pan?

 

There might be 2 more choices...Z22/Z24 4WD oil pans?????

[brodster]

Good info.

 

Where does the crossmember hit the Z20 pan?

 

There might be 2 more choices...Z22/Z24 4WD oil pans?????

 

I wil post up a pic where the crossmember goes when I get home. Referring to the stock L16, the crossmember hugs right up against the front of the oilpan sump. I haven't actually lowered the Z20 in with the oil pan, but it would hit right where the front sump is.

 

Regarding the 4wd Z24 oil pan, I believe it also has a rear sump that interfere with the steering linkage. I am assuming the same goes for the Z22 4wd. Not sure though.

 

 

 

[Sealik]

I wil post up a pic where the crossmember goes when I get home. Referring to the stock L16, the crossmember hugs right up against the front of the oilpan sump. I haven't actually lowered the Z20 in with the oil pan, but it would hit right where the front sump is.

 

Regarding the 4wd Z24 oil pan, I believe it also has a rear sump that interfere with the steering linkage. I am assuming the same goes for the Z22 4wd. Not sure though.

 

Yeah...both the Z22/Z24 4WD are rear sump...but slightly different from each other

 

Z24...I believe

 

[bananahamuck]

So does any of the pans ( that are useable with no mods ) have front sump ?? Maybe have you crossmember cut and rewelded like the KA guys do.

 

I know some of the info you posted probably mentions it but im kinda OCD at times.

 

I see now......the pan on the left is the pan on the right in second picture..and can see that original pan was front sump ..I think..

[DatWifey]

Yeah...both the Z22/Z24 4WD are rear sump...but slightly different from each other

 

Z24...I believe

 

Hmmmm, interesting. We saw one of these on a motor in the bed of a 720 4x4 at the Arlington JY a while ago when Brodster pulled the other 720 oil pan we currently have, and took some photos for reference, but never pulled it.

[Zfighter76]

i dont know alot about 510's, but when i put a z20 block in my 620, i had to remove the lower crossmember, grind away maybe a quarter of an inch of metal that hit the sump, and now its fine. the oil sump sits a couple of mm away maybe like 5 and it doesnt hit no matter what. the steering barely touches the oil sump when the wheels are straight and not enough to be concerned about, not touching enough to wear a hole at all. idk if that helps cuz i dont know about 510's, but just in case

[jon521]

booyah. subscribed

[brodster]

Thanks for the help everyone. Here are a couple more photos of exactly what I am dealing with. The first shows a different view of the different oil pans. The second shows the L16 installed in the 510 and how the crossmember and steering linkage wrap around it.

 

 

 

[brodster]

So does any of the pans ( that are useable with no mods ) have front sump ?? Maybe have you crossmember cut and rewelded like the KA guys do.

 

I know some of the info you posted probably mentions it but im kinda OCD at times.

 

I see now......the pan on the left is the pan on the right in second picture..and can see that original pan was front sump ..I think..

 

Not that I know about. Front sump typically requires modifying the oil pan or reversing the crossmember. I was originally going to cut the crossmember just like the KA 510s but with the oil pan parts I have, I think I can avoid that.

 

The original 200sx Z20 pan is front sump. The L16 pan is a mid-rear sump. The Z22 from the 720 is a rear sump. From the pictures and what I have seen the Z24 is also a rear sump, but the Z22 pan would be an easier starting point I think.

[Guest kamakazi620]

Just flip your crossmember and the 200sx pan sould fit,+ if you ever decide on KA.............

[brodster]

Just flip your crossmember and the 200sx pan sould fit,+ if you ever decide on KA.............

 

That definitely was my first choice. And going KA in the future did add some justification to doing it.

 

But having to get a modified swaybar I don't want to deal with or buy. Plus it means I have to hack the crossmember right? The two methods I have seen are either cutting out the center section and welding it back in or flipping the crossmember and modifying where the lower control arms sit.

[brodster]

Alright, did the initial fit-up this weekend and things don't look too bad.

 

 

 

 

The biggest problem right now is finding the right motor mount combination to get the engine to sit correctly. The engine brackets off the 200sx on the Z20e, mounted directly to the 510 stock insulators do provide the right angle; however, the engine sits too high.

 

 

I also tried reversing the stock 510 L16 brackets, and the fitment is a bit better. It still seems a bit too high and rotated just slightly to the driver's side. Plus I had to flip one of the 510 insulators to get the brackets to line up. Did some research, and somebody on the old Bluebirds list claimed that he did a similar thing:Used the L16 bracket from the passenger side and put it on the driver side. But he wasn't sure what he used on the passenger side. He thought it may have been from an L28e, which unfortunately uses a different type of mounting to the insulator. May have to go that route...

 

 

 

Today I went to the junkyard and picked up a couple of brackets and scoped some others. The datsun 620 brackets don't seem right. However, the driver side bracket from a z24 and from a z22 (720) have promise. The z24 looks like it may be close to the right angle. The z22 has some slotting that may work, but doesn't seem to help the angle.

 

 

 

If these don't work, may have to start gathering parts and modifying them for custom fabrication.

[brodster]

Well the z22 and z24 motor mounts don't do the trick for the passenger side. The Z24 mount is relatively close to the right dimensions, so I will probably just modify it to fit where I want it. In the pic, the Z24 mount is in my hand. Bolted to the block is a Z20e mount. Driver side currently has L16 passenger side mount.

 

 

 

One other item, I just received some plugs for the exhaust manifold (EGR, etc.). Apparently M24-1.5 plugs are difficult to find. In my searches, I came across a lot of the KA24 guys wanting them for the same reasons. There is a Audi oil pan plug that works, but I found these guys:

 

http://www.drillspot.com/products/978431/approved_vendor_38843_m24x15metric_finetapersteel07660_hex_sockethead_pipe_plug?s=1

 

 

[brodster]

Made a little progress over the last week.

 

I ended up trying out a couple more motor mounts. Nothing really works. So, since I am not a master fabricator I cut down one of the Z24 motor mounts I snagged from the Junkyard. It needs to be squared up a bit more, but so far I really like the placement.

 

 

 

 

[DatWifey]

I was trying to wait and let Brody update this with photos and such on his own since he's put so much time into it, but I just can't wait any longer.

 

He can throw in updates if he likes, but I'm putting this video here because the mother fucker lives again!! We finally got everything situated and wired up on Tuesday night and fired it up. And, last night took it for its first test drive through the neighborhood. It's so rad to see it moving under its own power again and getting to the point of being road-worthy! :w00t: It only took us 6 years to finally have the time and money to get 'er done, but better late than never. :blush:

 

[brodster]

Okay time for some "updates". Datwifey's post shows that it runs again, and currently it is quite a bit further than that. We had been so insanely busy getting it running, I really didn't have any time to update this thread. So here come the oics:

 

More before pix and fitup pix-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nasty rust under the battery tray:

 

Some cutting already done-

 

 

 

 

Cut off wheel mishap-

 

 

 

 

No photos of the finished weld product, but it wasn't too bad for my first auto body weld and first weld in about 12 years using a flux-cored home-depot rental. Got the job done. Blew through a lot of sheet metal in the learning process, but got it all patched up and smoothed down. Some filler on the inside and the damage is pretty much gone.

[brodster]

Damaged washer for end-link bushings:

 

 

Unfortunately it is spot welded on.

 

But I did realize that these washers are identical to the 521 washers and more importantly the Z cars. Went to zcarsource.com and ordered some new ones on.

 

I didn't feel it was necessary to weld them back in so I did a super nice JB weld job. I will post up if it fails to hold the washer in. If it does, I will weld it then.

 

[brodster]

This is posted in another thread, but here is the finished oil pan:

 

 

Basically, I cut out a section out of the middle of the sump area, shifted the back portion forward, and welded on a piece from a front sump Z20e oil pan. (My friend did the welding for me). I blasted the oil pan, and coated the outside with POR-15. Left the inside raw.

 

In the future I may re-modify the pan. As it turns out, I had to shift the engine back, so it is running somewhat close to the steering linkage. I may just work in some relief to the affected areas.

 

Also, I lost about 1 quart of oil in the mod. With this pan, the engine holds 3.5 quarts. I do have a hastings truck filter on the motor to pick up an extra quart of capacity. It may help with some oil cooling, it may just be a waste of money.

 

Regardless, when the pan comes out in the future, I want to weld some "wings" to the side of the sump. Add some more oil maybe.

[brodster]

Engine Bay Paint Job:

 

Goal-Clean it up! Make it cheap but presentable. Solution: Rustoleum sprayed from HVLP.

 

 

 

Initially we picked up a can of aluminum colored paint. We REALLY should have known better but the color on the outside of the can looked WAY different. The results actually look better on camera, but it basically looked like we coated our engine bay in Reynold's wrap aluminum foil. It was super gaudy and showed every rough spot:

 

 

 

Datwifey and I couldn't live with it, so waited a few days and sanded it back down. We chose Smoke Gray, which we like very much. The finish with the rustoleum was OKAY for my second HVLP paint job, but I achieved my goal. It is clean and easy to fix with an aerosol can of the same color.

 

[hobbes_the_cat]

Looks good now, that first silver was not pretty tho. It reminds me of a friends VW bug when i was a teenager, we used spray can "chrome" on the stinger exhaust pipe. :sick:

[mcmlxxxv]

nice work ! will you polish out those nice wheels ??? :D

[brodster]

nice work ! will you polish out those nice wheels ??? :D

 

The old 13" rims or the new 14" ZX 6-spoke rims?

[mcmlxxxv]

those :

 

:)