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A-series distributor issue


BluEvo210

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Hi. I did a couple of searches, but didn't see any threads that seemed to talk about my specific issue(s).

 

Apparently, I need a new distributor for my 1980 Datsun 210. The stores in town don't have them, even at their warehouses. I found a couple of vendors selling Pertronix distributors for a Datsun 210, but the part description always says it's for an A12 engine. I have an A14.

 

Will a distributor for an A12 not fit an A14? I know the A14 block is taller, but I don't know how that affects the spot where the distributor attaches.

Is there some other difference between them, that would cause my A14 not to run right? I figure somebody out there must know.

 

Apparently, the distributor on my Datsun is broken. The mechanic says this part around the shaft is broken and it's making the spark really erratic. I asked if it was a distributor bearing and he said "No." Apparently, it's some part that you only have if you're in the business of rebuilding distributors. So, the mechanic called all the auto part stores in town, and then tried a couple of web sites.

 

Rock Auto has a listing for the correct distributor, but apparently it's out of stock. I'm starting wonder if I have to send somebody a core and then get a rebuilt distributor back from them.

 

If y'all know where to get a distributor made for an A14, please let me know.

 

It's starting to look like the Pertronix distributor is Plan A. If there's a flaw in that plan, please tell me before I spend money!

 

If Plan A won't work, Plan B might be a distributorless ignition like from Jacobs, MSD, or Electramotive. Then, I'll have even more questions...

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No one sells new disttributors any more. Rockauto has rebuilt units.

 

The thing that always goes bad is the advance plate, which has three ball bearings on it (it is not the distributor shaft bearing). 90% of them are bad and causing erratic spark. You can buy the advance plate from your friendly Nissan dealer, but it is $75.

 

Yes, A12 distributor will work in A14, but don't do it. The 210s have a superior distributor. 210 distributors are for A12A, A14 and A15. Any will work in your A14.

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The thing that always goes bad is the advance plate, which has three ball bearings on it (it is not the distributor shaft bearing). 90% of them are bad and causing erratic spark. You can buy the advance plate from your friendly Nissan dealer, but it is $75.

 

Yes, A12 distributor will work in A14, but don't do it. The 210s have a superior distributor. 210 distributors are for A12A, A14 and A15. Any will work in your A14.

 

Good info on the advance plate. I think that's what Rob was saying is broken (in multiple peices).

 

While re-examining the Datsun 210 distributors at Rock Auto, I saw that they had the same part number for 1.2L, 1.4L, and 1.5L engines.

 

I'm still considering what else I might do, in case Rob was right and I get a message saying "Oops, we don't have that distributor after all..."

Then I'll go to the Nissan dealer and see about ordering an advance plate. But...

 

...I was looking at the Pertronix distributor again (at classicgarage.com) and their description says:

"For Nissan/Datsun 210 Canada (A12 Engine) 1979-1980 with Single Points Distributor only."

 

When they say "A12", they don't really mean "A12A", do they? Was the Canadian market still getting A12s in 1980?

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I don't know for sure what Canada got, but their A12-powered B310 came with 12" wheels, so it was very different from USA 210s. It doesn't matter re: distributor because even the 1980s point distributor took the same points & cap as the 1971 model.

 

The A12 (1171cc) was made until 1994 but not used in USA after 1973. The A12A (1237cc) was made 1980-1982 or thereabouts.

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My distributor arrived! :D

 

...and the mechanic says he already had one. dry.gif

The previous thing I heard from him was that he was unable to order it.

I took the following weeks of silence to mean he still couldn't order it. Am I way off base here?

 

Are we back to "find another mechanic"?

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  • 1 month later...

Sounds like it.... guys like this give real mechanics a bad name.. dry.gif

 

As stated earlier, the distributors are not hard to install properly, so doing the job yourself shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility... and you get the added bonus of not having to pay a wrench turning hack to do the job for you!

 

In all seriousness though, he should have contacted you when he "found" one.

 

.02

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  • 7 months later...

Update...

While the distributor was actually broken, the new distributor didn't fix the problem.

 

The "mechanic" finally took off the timing cover, and found that the timing chain had skipped, not one, but TWO teeth on the gear. He installed a new timing set, and the engine runs as well as it ever has.

 

Then, I was riding in light traffic one night, on my way to a car wash, and a brake caliper cracked. It broke on either side of the piston, and dumped half the caliper onto the road. Fortunately, the pistons seized in the clamped position and the car stopped before hitting anything.

 

The car went to a different mechanic for that problem. Seeing as I didn't know anything about mechanics in the area, I figured I'd give this guy a chance. He had the car for October and November, supposedly waiting on parts. He had his chance, and I will never darken his door again.

That was Telly's Auto Service in Fort Walton Beach. I can't believe that guy teaches at the local college. He's not bright at all, and his suppliers are really f***ing slow.

 

Now, the car is at yet another shop to figure out why the Ford 7.5" rear end is so damn loud. One thing we found is that the splines on the Moser axles have a lot of slack in them...

 

I just can't catch a break with this car. Everything that goes wrong is over my head to diagnose it, much less fix it.

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It has the right gear ratio. My Datsun came with a 3.700 differential, and the Ford assembly turned out to have a 3.73.

 

When I wore out differential #3 in this car, I was willing to pay the $950 or whatever Nissan wanted for a brand new H150 ring and pinion. They said it was no longer available.

 

I started thinking about what differentials might go in this car and have parts available for it. That eliminated almost everything actually made by Nissan, and I figured an H233 was a pretty bad idea for a car rated at 65hp. (The axle assembly would be heavier than the engine!)

 

One friend suggested a Chevy rear end, one suggested Ford...

I talked to a vintage racer on the phone and he said not only did he not have any parts that would help me, he would love to have Ford rear end if the rules allowed it.

My Datsun is a street car first, and autocrosser second. Rules, shmules. It doesn't matter what class it goes in if I can't drive it.

The Ford 7.5" came in 4-cylinder and V6 Mustangs at least as late as 2004. I looked at various part catalogs to see what was available for it.

3.73 gear ratio? Check.

Limited slip? Check.

Bearings and seals available for all eternity? Check.

Each of these things available from multiple suppliers? Check.

 

It sounded like a pretty good idea, and one of my autocross buddies in El Paso (I lived near there at the time) owned a shop that worked on transmissions and rear ends. I figured a Ford 7.5" should be easy for him.

 

We started with an axle assembly out of a 1992 4-cylinder Mustang, in a local junkyard. The rear end apparently had a 3.73 gear ratio already. I coudn't believe my luck when I heard that. 4-banger Mustangs came with a 3.45...or worse, a 3.23 or 2.73. Someone along the way wanted their 4-banger to keep up with traffic better.

When I asked my buddy how much I owed him for the axle assembly he said, "You're getting a posi, right? That replaces the spider gears, and [the junkyard guy] says he can sell the spider gears for what he wanted for the whole assembly." So, an axle assembly that could have cost $450 was free. This axle swap looked better all the time.

The trickiest part was splicing Ford and Datsun axle tubes, so that the new rear end would bolt onto the Datsun suspension. Two and a half years later, the guy in El Paso had done that, got to the part about cutting down axles, then gave up.

 

The remaining junkyard parts are the ring and pinion, parts of the axle assembly, and the front main seal (leaking).

I have a limited-slip differential from Auburn.

I have drum brakes, with new drums, shoes and hardware, for a '92 Mustang LX.

I have custom axles from Moser, because you can't cut down 4-cylinder Mustang axles. The custom axles have the Datsun bolt pattern of 4 x 4.5" (Ford was 4 x 4.25"), and Datsun lugs. So, the car goes around with a full set of Datsun wheels, and you can't tell anything is modified.

 

When I got it back together, the rear end was even louder than the Datsun gears it replaced. I hadn't expected much from junkyard parts, but I was still surprised.

I don't think my gas mileage suffered much. I was in a hurry to get to my last autocross before moving, and drove to El Paso at full throttle. That was over an hour with my foot flat to the floor, and I got 30mpg.

During the move to Florida, the Datsun was on a trailer behind the U-haul truck, and my wife was driving the S14. The S14 got rear-ended on the outskirts of Houston, so the S14 went on the trailer, and I drove the Datsun the remaining 500 miles to Crestview, FL. The junkyard gears were certainly doing their job.

 

However, when I ordered the axles from Moser, I didn't know that an Auburn LSD had different splines from the original carrier assembly. Moser sent me axles with standard splines, and they fit loosely in the carrier. Now that I know that, I bet that's causing at least half of the noise. When I let the clutch out, I feel the clutch engage and it feels like the engine gets half a turn and then there's a CLUNK and a jolt as the splines make contact. Once it's in gear and going, it's smooth. but starting and shifting are pretty rough. I didn't think it was safe, and I need to wear earplugs on the highway, so I contacted Moser to see what I could do about it. Nothing to adjust or tighten...the only fix is a new set of axles.

 

Moser wasn't trying to sell me new axles. They actually told me the axles should be fine with that much play in them, but I consider it a big driveability issue.

 

When my gas mileage got down to 25mpg (puttering around on Sundays when there's no traffic) I checked on the spark plugs to see if they told me anything, and the car suddenly started running as if on 2 cylinders, leading to the original post...

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wow you didnt have to explain yourself that much.

I didnt know a Ford axle would work.

 

a Pertronix with a 3 ohm coil would work I guess if you have that option.

 

The older cars are wired for a HoT start wire to bypass a ballast resisitor.Meaning the Point coils.

Your 1980 Datsun would not have a Hot start wire.

You Datsun I would assume have a EI coil and thus need to be replaced with a 3 ohm.

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This is the first time I've heard of an A-series timing chain jumping. They are very short and heavy-duty. Very reliable.

 

I'd never heard of it either, but it explained everything. I had replaced spark plugs, wire, the ignition coil, and the distributor. Each of these things made it run slightly better, but it still ran like $#!+.

When the mechanic and I were looking at it together, he used his timing light and adjusted the timing. It ran slightly better if he adjusted it out of spec, but it still ran like crap. My first thought was "Adjust it 'til it runs right", but it didn't work because the spark and cam were out of phase.

 

I suppose I could have put a lot of stress on the chain back in the '90s, when I was autocrossing it and didn't know any better than to shift at redline. After a few trips to the drag strip, I found I went just as fast shifting at 5000rpm or 6000rpm. I actually got slower times if I revved it all the way to redline (~ 6800) because the engine was out of breath by then. I know the drag strip was hard on the car, because I wore out a clutch, the little 6" differential made more and more noise, and I had a wheel bearing break on the way home one night.

 

Also the first time I've heard of a Datsun B-car caliper breaking. Seizing is common though. Were the pads worn too far, and so the piston come out?

 

It could be that it seized first, then broke the caliper. I was stopping from about 45mph, and the car suddenly shuddered like a wheel was coming off, then the brake pedal went flat to the floor for lack of fluid.

 

I hadn't driven the car much since changing the wheel bearings, pads, and front brake rotors. I think this might be another issue of wear caused by my driving. At my first autocross, I boiled my brake fluid. Later, when I lived in New Mexico, I drove it in the mountains numerous times, and I know my brakes got hot slowing down on steep grades. I warped a set of cheapo CarQuest rotors on my S14, and wondered why I never warped rotors on the Datsun. I must have put a lot stress on the calipers over the years.

 

Breaking sh!t didn't used to cost so much, when I had friends around who could help me fix it. Now that I've moved, and they've moved, and I don't have such friends where I live, I've started being nicer to my cars...and THEN the timing chain went wacky...

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wow you didnt have to explain yourself that much.

 

Yes, I'm a bit long-winded. :)

 

But, the distributor/timing chain issue is fixed and the engine runs really well now.

I was going to check on my gas mileage, but I hadn't gone through a whole tank of gas before the caliper broke.:(

 

Actually, that car still hasn't gone through a whole tank of gas since I got back from A$$crackistan in July.

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I wonder if the distributor was off a tooth? timming plate got loose?

never heard of a chain moving a tooth myself. I think its a fairy tale. if that happens the slack side guide must be shot and should be noisey

 

Supposedly, the distributor advance plate was broken, but a new distributor didn't solve the problem. The timing chain was the next thing to check. It's bizarre, but it was the only thing left that made any sense.

 

Whether the mechanic was honest, or made up a story, I'm not going back to him. Too many communication issues, and he was too far out in the boonies.

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  • 11 months later...

Update:

I'm starting to think something is installed incorrectly, or the spark timing might be out of spec.  It's hesitating a lot when I try to pull away from a stop, and it's getting really crappy gas mileage. 

 

I'm driving on rural roads at 65mph or less, and getting 26mpg.  I think I should be getting 40+ in these conditions. 

 

I looked at my factory manual, and it seems to assume I'm a mechanic and I know how to adjust timing.  :rolleyes:

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think I solved at least part of the MPG mystery.  I was trying to change the fuel filter (in front of Advance Auto Parts) and realized the adjacent hoses were brittle and cracking.  I replaced the hoses, and the car ran better.  Driveability below 2500rpm is much improved. 

 

...but the fuel smell got worse on the way home.  I looked under the hood and the fuel return line looked wet.  I touched it, and my thumb tore it open.  Wide open.  Need to get new hose before driving it again. 

 

Soooo...next tank of gas the results might not suck so bad.

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  • 6 months later...

I'm back with more questions.

 

I decided to change the thermostat, and when I got the old one out it was in peices.  ...So, water has been flowing pretty freely.

 

I scraped out the old gasket and put in a new gasket and thermostat. 

 

I can't find my manual right now (which is pretty frustrating)...

 

...Anybody know how much I'm supposed to torque the bolts for the water outlet? 

I started the car and verified that it's not tight enough, and it drips water when running.

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Just looked at my 1200 manual and there is no torque listing for the t-stat bolts.  Did you use any sealant on the gasket?  I have used a product from NAPA called High Tack Gasket sealant, comes in a small can with a brush attached to the inside of the lid (it also has a permatex label on it), the stuff is stickier than snot.  You just brush it on wait a few minutes and install t-stat and gasket.  Haven't had a leak the past 4 times I have used it.

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