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510 Whole Car Rewire Mess


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So I basically committed every car sin by taking out the stock harness without labeling everything and documenting with pictures because I was in a hurry to get a modern fuse box and relays installed. Then lots of time passed and things have gotten out of hand. So here's where I am:

 

I am attempting to put a modern fuse box/relay box into my 72 510. For the life of me, none of this makes sense. I like to think I'm not dumb, but this makes me feel dumb. Is there anyone willing to walk me through this so that I can make a clean install? I'm certainly capable, but I'm so frustrated. Here's the mess I'm in. I have the stock 510 harness pulled apart and ready to solder in new connectors to a fuse box from a mid 90's Honduh Accord. I have all the wiring diagrams for both cars, but it doesn't make sense to me. This is what I THINK I understand.

 

1) Power from the Battery and Alternator go into the fuse box with a White wire.

2) A power wire leads from the Alternator to the Ignition Switch on a White/Red wire and also to the Common Fuse on a White wire on the stock 510 Fuse Panel.

3) Power will flow into the Ignition Switch when in the Accessory Position from the White/Red wire.

4) When the key is turned to Accessory Position, power will then go to the Wiper and Air Conn fuses on a Blue/Black wire to the stock 510 Fuse Panel.

5) When the key is turned to the On Position, power will then go to the Black/White wire that leads to the Flasher fuse in the stock 510 Fuse Panel.

6) When the key is turned to the On Position, power will then go to the Black/White wire that leads to a fused link and then a Ballast Resistor and then a Black/Green wire before going to the Ignition Coil.

7) When the key is turned to the Start Position, power will go to a Black/Yellow wire that leads to the Starter.

8) When the key is turned to the Start Position, power will also go to a Black/Blue wire that meets the Black/Green wire after the Ballast Resistor that leads to the Ignition Coil.

 

And that's just the Start/Charge system. Here's an image someone created for visual reference.

510_charging_system.jpg

 

Here are links to the other diagrams I have.

http://i165.photobuc.../510-wiring.jpg

http://i165.photobuc...owerFuseBox.png

http://i165.photobuc...cordPowerp1.png

http://i165.photobuc...cordPowerp2.png

http://i165.photobuc...cordPowerp3.png

http://i165.photobuc...cordPowerp4.png

http://i165.photobuc...cordPowerp5.png

 

I am also wiring in a modern EFI motor, so the stock 510 wiring setup was not ideal. The ECU wiring for the motor was pretty straight forward, but this is just a mess. Can anyone walk me through this so I don't screw it up?

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ehhh. here's my advice, print out the wiring diagram for the honda motor. tape all the pages together, and then start crossing out every item and wire that you aren't going to be using to run the honda motor. (i'm sorta assuming the honda motor still has the honda harness as well)

 

then do the same for the datsun diagram, cross out all the items that are going to be gone once you pull out the datsun motor.

 

that'll essentially give you an idea of what you're gonna need, wiring wise. then you need to compare both diagrams and see what they have in common. they are both going to have to have power to from battery, a start wire, grounds and hot all the time and hot with key on. seeing what they have in common will help you know which wires to keep.

 

 

it's step one ifaic.

 

then take both harnesses cut out everything you don't need, or tuck the wires away somewhere to the side so they don't get in the way for the time being if you are nervous about cutting things out.

 

your best bet, since this sounds like it's your first time. is to put the honda motor and harness in the car, and logically (and temporarily using jumpers) start hooking up power to the items that need it until you can successfully have the engine running while it's in your car.

 

use a pair of jump start cables to run a ground directly from the battery to the motor, and to run + on the battery directly to the main + on the motor (either the alt + or the starter + node)

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I have done something similar to what patra did with the diaghrams, but i printed out everything and went to the local copier store and had them enlarged first. Think it cost me 25 cents per page. So a few bucks for some diaghrams that are large enough to read. Then i sorted out everthing i wanted and didnt want, and added wires(lines) as needed. Then i went back and had my final copy laminated after they made me a couple extra copies, just in case i had it laminated to early.

 

Good Luck

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Unfortunately, I have done all of these things already. Mainly, not tediously labeling everything like I do now.

 

 

No, I am not using a Honduh motor in my Datsun. It's actually a Mitsubishi 4G63T and the wiring for the motor is complete, minus the positive power hook ups.

 

I have traced all the wires, but the "flow" of electricity doesn't quite make sense based on the materials I have. My Datsun wiring diagram (from the Haynes manual) isn't 100% correct to what I'm seeing in the car. There are some differences in wire color and some of the junctions change wire colors. It may be silly of me, but it would be nice to show where all of the connectors are at and if the wire on the other end of it changes color on the other side of the connector. The Hazard switch is one such connector, and the headlight switch is all black wires on the switch side and multi-colored on the other.

The Charge Wiring Diagram that is pictured above, does a decent job of showing where the power flows THROUGH the fuse box, and the 510 Diagram shows nothing. Enlarging it is pointless since the hard to read material isn't printed well enough to make a difference. Also, there is a larger Underhood wiring diagram in the Haynes manual, but the wire colors there are different even from the Whole Car diagram on the previous page. (stupid)

 

To Banzai: Honestly there isn't anything "wrong" with my stock fuse panel. Except of course for the fact it takes glass fuses, the amperage rating of several circuits will be too low for some of my accessories, and I will need more circuits to run EFI and other parts for the car. I also wanted to move the fuse panel out from under the hood to decrease clutter for a cleaner look. Purely aesthetic.

 

My main issue is tracing where the electricity flows and from which wire. Stock harnesses splice into wires in the middle instead of at connectors, change colors, and altogether, are just a mess. I'm "trying" to simplify the harness, cut down on clutter, and add some needed circuits to the harness.

 

How can I tell which wires are getting power from the fuse panel? Are all wires connected to the fuse panel (minus the Alternator or Battery) getting a Positive Electric Charge? That makes sense to me, but is it right? Then EVERY wire that is not connected to the fuse panel would be taking power away and going to a ground either directly, or through a switch/object. (light etc.)

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Most Jap stuff is a switchable GROUND. esp the lights.meaning power is hooked to the battery all the time. then swithc grounds it completeing the circut. Then theres the 12v switchable.(key ON)

 

Moving the stock fusebox inside is possible plus you can use it to still power all the stock stuff. wipers parking lights horn ect.DONE

 

As for powering the Mitshibitshi harness I assume you would use Jeffs CAN/AM box or use a equivilant(box light relays).Read the Can Am Box install in the HOW TO section. this you would hook to 12volt batt/starter lug /or a Junction. use the 12 v switachable blk/ whit wire. read this HOW TO as many plaes to acutually get the wire from.

 

as for the extra power for other accessories i would use the stock fuse box .I believe there is a Air Cond wire(blu) wraped up in there or which is a switcbale 12volts to power 2 or 3 4 or howmany you want lightbox relays to power your higher powered stuff. Hook it to a 12volt junction source like the starter lug. or make a 12v remote junction.You could even use the blk/wht wire that went to the coil to power it also(I assume youll use this to turn on your ECU ect....as in the "HOW TO" section

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  • 9 months later...

I took a long break from this part of my project because it was frustrating me. But here is where I'm at:

 

I am currently still trying to incorporate a Honda Accord fuse/relay box into the stock 510 wiring. The reason being is that it has more than enough fuses and relays to suit my needs. It also has more modern components such as blade fuses and common relays that can be found more readily. I am currently trying to sort out how the wiring works with the headlights. The 510 lighting switch has only 4 wires. One seems to be constant power (WR), one goes to the fuse panel to send current to the headlights (RY). Two wires share a pinout and seem to lead to the park lights and also the headlight relay (GL). The last wire goes to the fuse panel, but the wiring diagram isn't much help on its purpose (GW).

I assume WR sends constant power to the switch and when the switch is in the first position, it sends power to GL the park lights. But why does it go to the headlight relay? Why does the GW wire go to the fuse panel? And why does the RY wire go through the fuse panel and not the headlight relay? Here is the stock 510 wiring diagram:

510_wiring.jpg

The Accord wiring diagram that I have is very different. I don't quite understand what each switch position means in the middle right section. Does the LR (blue/red) wire on 18 go to a ground that energizes the Headlight Relay? If so, then do I rewire the 510 to have no constant power at the light switch and instead hook the WR wire to ground?

accord_wiring.jpg

 

I know this isn't rocket science and I can figure it out, I just need that one piece of info that has it all make sense. Grrrr.

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  • 2 years later...

Apparently no one else seems to understand this stuff either. At least no one is willing to share. I know many people have swapped in modern fuse panels and rewired the 510 to update the system and make it more safe using another car's existing fuse panel, but no one wants to share that information like it's some big secret.

 

I'm getting a little closer to understanding what it is I need to do to make this all work together, but the differences between how the old system and new system switches circuits doesn't seem to make sense. I'm just missing one piece of information to make it all click. Anyone have good resources or done a rewire of the system to make it more efficient?

 

I know the headlight wiring is one of the main issues. Power does not need to go through the switch, only activate a relay. What am I missing to make it all make sense?

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the 510 fuse box is fine and alwasy was. If chanhed I would have just deminate the ends at the new fusebox(making sure thereis constance power to the lamp circut to the headlites like stock(as your relay usings a ground to turn them on.

 

power is at the liaghts via the fuse. then a ground is passed from the On switch(lows) then when Highs are triggered a from the grounding of the steering wheels. this puts a ground on that relay by the fusebox and strut. it puts 2 grounds 1 on the lows and 1 on the high lamps.

 

the parking lamps circut is switchable power. nothing to do with front Lamp power..

 

I never dwelled to much in to the datsun harness . most times its a simple c clip splice and then maybe a wire change color. I kkep the stock ends and make a new pigtail to plug into them if needed if theres a end change.

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If the stock wiring and fuse panel are fine, why does everyone have their headlights "fixed" with a relay? The stock harness has some issues with power delivery and old wiring doesn't help. Mine isn't bad in any way, it could just be more efficient. I am keeping the stock connectors and wiring, as it's in good condition and easy to connect to the 510 switches etc. Also, the glass fuses aren't ideal in this day and age. I've also swapped to a fuel injected motor with an ECU, I would have needed some fuses or power junction points anyway.

 

I know I'm close to figuring this out. I'll share a successful diagram when this is all over in case anyone else is doing something similar.

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owned 4 510s and never had a proplem with my lights. I added a H4 harness and that should make the stock harness last forever as its only now used as a trigger for the H4 harness.

People rush to fix what is simple if they just take there time.

 

 

What light proplems I seen was the relay needed cleaning or replaced. or the owner induced a proplem by cutting and splicing and most times could be fixed by cleaneing.

The Japs did do the wiring correctly

 

 

Jeff Hino has done multiple KA/SR swaps. he still uses the stock fuse box.now adding is Can AM box with the slip in fuses for the Engine harness power.

 

Sounds like you are just insisting on converting whats allready OK. Your mind is made up

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think this is the best and cleanest route. I'm happy that you have not had any issues with the stock setup, and I have no experience to speak from since my car has never run. However, based on what I've been reading and recommendations from places like Dime Quarterly, relays seem to be the best and safest solution. Rather than have random relays under the hood and splicing into wiring, my solution is to combine all of it into a single unit.

 

That being said, I think I'm figuring this out. It seems my issue is with the large difference between the Honda unit and the stock Datsun stuff. The Honda headlights run left and right circuits each are combined with the hi beam on a single fuse running and a single relay running all 4. Then when the hi beam switch is activated, it grounds the high circuit from a separate relay. The Datsun units run the hi and low beam on separate relays. My solution is to use another relay (in this case the power windows) to run the high beam switch. Both are rated at 20A and should do the trick. The Honda unit that powers the hi beams runs completely different eliminating it from me being able to use it.

 

The other issue is that the Honda unit wants to ground out from the switch to activate the relays. The Datsun unit runs power through the switch to the headlights. I have changed my power input on the light switch to a ground. We shall see if it works. Furthermore, the park lights have a different power feed line into the switch that directs current to the park lights. I have have left this circuit as is with power coming from my new fuse panel as the circuit seems to be the same for both cars.

 

I'll head out to get a battery to test all of this and report back. I am eliminating several unused circuits while leaving room for expansion with this new unit. Instead of running separate fuse panels for the fuel injected engine and accessories like electric fans etc. from the chassis harness, it will all be in one place. That's the thought anyway  :hmm:

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I think I'm going to abandon the Accord fuse panel. I'm looking at using a 2G DSM non turbo unit, as I think I need more relays and there is a lot better support for modifying DSMs than Accords. I know I'm overcomplicating this just to make it more simple and clean. The DSM unit has room for 10 relays, 10 standard fuses, 8 large fuses, and 2 larger fuses for the battery/alternator. That should be more than enough for any future upgrades or needs as I build this. Many people don't think about how many relays you have in a vehicle. I'm even finding that many 90's cars have several separate relays for various circuits in the car. From my limited knowledge, I'm looking at having at least 6 relays, not including the special relays for the ECU. I also have to account for the 2 flasher units for turn signal/hazards. I'd love to slip those into this panel somehow, but I doubt it will work. Anyway, here's what I'm working with now. (not my unit) fuse_box_cover.jpg

I chose the non turbo unit over the turbo unit simply because of availability. This came in lots of Dodge/Chrysler/Mitsubishi vehicles of the late 90's. Let's see what other messes I can make.

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If you know what the real needs are for your setup, meaning all the true relay and circuits for your swap, this is an option as well.

 

MOD%20Fuse%20display%20white-400.jpg

 

http://www.polevolt.co.uk/acatalog/Modular_Fuse_and_Relay_System.html

 

It's available from a company in the UK but I'm sure they'd still be able to ship one to you.  I don't know if the ship time would be too long for your project.  It would allow for a true custom and sanitary harness to be made for a non stock swapped vehicle.

 

I originally looked into it for the KA swap into my 720 but decided on a Can/Am box instead.  I may upgrade/simplify to a Painless or similar 12 circuit kit in the future though to go with the Can/Am box.  It'd be more of an esthetic change than a true wiring need.

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Using another fusebox from a different car can be difficult. Often times you cant cleanly switch the wires, or are left with how the manufacturer routed the power which may not be how you like.

 

Personally, Im thinking of making my own, get some 5 or 6oz pour PCB and have my friend use his laser to etch the board. Then I can have it how I want.

 

I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out a better fuse/relay panel for my car as well. I have circuits like power windows and door locks, fuel pump, etc... Ultimately, I came to the conclusion I disliked everything I saw.

 

For now, Its a bunch of relays bolted to a sheet of ABS hanging out under my glovebox.

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all I have to say is good luck.

I seen a few people yank there harness out never to get car running again(mostly wagon owners)

 

 

a stock harness is EZ to figure out and repair if taken the time but since you been working on this since 2011 you have alot of time.

 

 

Hainz is right the factory wiring is EZ!!!  Why re invent the wheel.  Really the headlights are the only thing that need upgrading. 

 

 

 

Using another fusebox from a different car can be difficult. Often times you cant cleanly switch the wires, or are left with how the manufacturer routed the power which may not be how you like.

 

Personally, Im thinking of making my own, get some 5 or 6oz pour PCB and have my friend use his laser to etch the board. Then I can have it how I want.

 

I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out a better fuse/relay panel for my car as well. I have circuits like power windows and door locks, fuel pump, etc... Ultimately, I came to the conclusion I disliked everything I saw.

 

For now, Its a bunch of relays bolted to a sheet of ABS hanging out under my glovebox.

 

 

Have you ever actually tried installing a fuse box out of a different car into a 510?  I tired once, when I was much younger and thought it needed to be done.  It was difficult and not worth it at all, After spending weeks after work I tossed it in the trash.  

 

As for adding stuff like power windows, stereo ect. A sub system is just fine, that way when the next person gets the car it's that much easier to remove.  Or if you decide to go another route you'll save time.  

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Break everything down to simple systems.

Lets start (no pun intended) with the starter.  Battery positive, to the starter solenoid.  Battery negative to ground.  A fused wire from battery positive to a switch, probably a key switch, and then a wire from the start switch to the starter solenoid small terminal.

 

That is all you need to crank the engine.

 

With fuel injection, you probably need to supply fused power to two relays.  One relay, switches the computer, and ignition on.  Triggered by the key.  The second relay, supplies power to the fuel pump(s).  Switched ground, usually done by the engine computer.  that should get the engine running.

 

Now, you need to charge the battery.  Hook up the alternator.

 

Now, it cranks, starts, runs, and charges the battery.

 

Then do the legal stuff.  Brake lights, fused power to a brake light switch, and the brake lights.

Tail/marker/dash light, fused power through the light switch, to all those lights.

Emergency flashers, fused power through a switch, a flasher, and to the lights.  A stock Datsun four way flasher cuts off power to the turn signals when flash is on. at least on a 521.

 

I think you see the pattern. 

Break everything down to simple systems.  Then it is simple.  Look at the whole mess, and it is overwhelming.

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"I am the smartest man alive!" Not really, but I think I've got this whole thing figured out. I made a little 12v test rig using an old PC power supply and I'm testing the relays and using the stock headlight to make sure I'm getting all of this right. First tests on making the headlight relay function using the stock switch works. I have changed the stock switch to use ground instead of letting positive current flow through it. All of the modern switches I've seen take this route and it needs to work this way for the relays as well. I'm in the process of laying out the wiring diagram and splitting off sections to use connectors so it's not all hardwired together. With any luck, I'll have something that resembles a wiring harness by the end of this long weekend  :thumbup:

 

Edit: I will NOT being making the stock switch use ground to switch the relay. It makes more sense to leave it along and just hook it up to allow positive current to trigger the relay than to change the entire setup.

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I now have functioning headlights and near functioning hi beams using the relay panel and stock headlight switch. Everything is soldered and shrink wrapped. I'm labeling everything to ensure that it is clear to myself and anyone else what I did. This is NOT a hack job and the majority of the stock wiring and connections remain in case someone would like to "fix" what I've done in the future.

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If you know what the real needs are for your setup, meaning all the true relay and circuits for your swap, this is an option as well.

 

MOD%20Fuse%20display%20white-400.jpg

 

http://www.polevolt.co.uk/acatalog/Modular_Fuse_and_Relay_System.html

 

It's available from a company in the UK but I'm sure they'd still be able to ship one to you.  I don't know if the ship time would be too long for your project.  It would allow for a true custom and sanitary harness to be made for a non stock swapped vehicle.

 

I originally looked into it for the KA swap into my 720 but decided on a Can/Am box instead.  I may upgrade/simplify to a Painless or similar 12 circuit kit in the future though to go with the Can/Am box.  It'd be more of an esthetic change than a true wiring need.

 

This looks to be an amazing option for a fuse box nice find. 

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I haven't been able to find a seller to ship to the US...

 

 

Here is their North America corporate info for the manufacturer:

 

http://www.mta.it/en/north-america

 

Based in Illinois.

 

 

And I once talked to this distributor via email about international shipping and they were willing to work with me, but it was spendy:

 

http://www.proquip.com.au/ProductPages/MTA/MTA.html

 

Based in Australia.  With the Ratsun members that live in Australia, although surly lately ;) , it may be something that could happen easier.

 

 

I had recently found this company, but as of yet, I have not tried to contact them:

 

http://www.egelectronics.com/web/Products/Electromechanics/Fuses___Fuse_Holders/Modular_Fuse___Relay_Housings-04608.aspx

 

Based in Sweden.

 

 

Admittedly, after I found the shipping cost to be a bit too high at the time, I kinda dropped the issue for my needs.

 

Sorry to the OP for a partial, yet on topic, thread jack.

 

 

ADDITIONAL:  Found this just now, and they offer international shipping:

 

http://www.swecheck.com.au/index.php

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I like what you are trying to do. I just updated my fuse box to a blade type fuse box in my 620 truck. The only reason why i did it was because my stock fuse box was all corroded and melted. But if you have any pics, I'd like to see what setup you have going. I might upgrade mines again in the near future to a better setup. But here's what i have so far.

 

Old:

20140729_230022_zpsfqvd9krm.jpg

 

20140729_230030_zpswbztcjao.jpg

 

New:

20140729_230120_zpsup2ofanz.jpg

 

20140801_071641_zps74ytlw6c.jpg

 

20140812_070346_zpswledf4cw.jpg

 

20140823_054318_zps9gfbvglk.jpg

 

20140824_120932_zpskijbcfbd.jpg

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