need help w/starter, 74-78 b210 a14 auto

[tycot1]

hey guys, i have been having trouble with my starter motor in my b210 auto trans car. i had some teeth wear out when i got the car so i replaced the starter with a reman, the only thing i could find new. about one month later the starter began to jam in the out position being stuck in the ring gear of the flex plate. i would remove it bench test and it was fine. i would then throw it back in the car and it would start right up, it might have started a few times before repeating the problem again. after a few weeks of this b.s. i pulled the trans and replaced the flex plate (nos) and the starter with another new reman. the problem seemed to be fixed until about a week or so later it started to jam again. i parked the car and now we are four years later and i am driving it again. now to prep the car before the initial start up i pulled the starter, bench tested it (worked good) reinstalled and it fired up. the car started about 15 times before the gremlin came back. while it was jammed this time i put a bar on the crank and i heard the starter click back out of its jammed position to the normal position. i pulled the starter and quite obviously the teeth have gotten a bit worn through the repeat jamming process. i also noticed the bushing at the end of the starter shaft is quite worn and the gear shaft is fairly wobbly. i am thinking these shit starters are jumping out a bit sideways and jamming. needless to say the car has NO teeth left and is now stranded at my shop. when i called a different part store today he wanted to know if it is a direct or gear reduction style, can anyone confirm which one i need please and any thoughts on my problem. no nos starters left through nissan. i have one more nos flex plate too. thanks tyson

[datzenmike]

All Nissan 3N71B autos require a a spacer between the flex plate and the end of the crankshaft. There is usually one behind so that the flex plate is sandwiched. The spacer is about 1/8" or 0.125" maybe more and without it the flex plate would be that much closer to the starter. Do you remember if there was a spacer on yours???

 

They would look somewhat like these:

 

 

 

Maybe space the mounting bolts with washers to move the starter away from the flex plate and see if this solves the problem?

.

[ggzilla]

You can use any A-series starter. The difference between auto and M/T starters is a slightly higher torque for the auto, but at the expense of slower cranking. Bosch reman starters are perhaps the best, but the 4-brush Mitsubishi units (stock Datsun starter) is good too.

 

had some teeth wear out

Most likly hte gear teeth on the flexplate are worn too, not just the teeth on the starter. Replace the flexplate.

 

some 1977 and all 1978 B210s can fit the "direct" drive starter, but 1974-1976 it won't fit. You don't need the direct drive starter unless you leave in ultra-cold climate (like -20).

[tycot1]

so it will go crank, flex plate, spacer, bolts. that would be looking at it from the back to the front (looking at the back of the block). im sure the spacer is there but you never know. if it is there could i make a nice spacer for the starter and shim it out just in case the washers behind the bolts dont work. you were suggesting putting the washers behind the crank and in front of the flex plate to space the plate toward the back of the car a little right? i wouldnt have to pull the trans again in case they make things worse? spacing the starter should do the same thing? any problems with the gear teeth on a reman not being the correct size and not mating up properly? thanks for the help mike! tyson

[datzenmike]

If the transmission and torque converter were off and you were looking at the back of the flex plate it should be ...

 

back............................................ front

Spacer, flex plate, spacer, crank shaft.

 

Yes, try putting 1/8" washers between the tranny and the starter to move it forward and see if the problem goes away.

 

 

I just remembered that the standards use an engine plate between the block and the transmission that is NOT used on the automatics. In other words the automatic should bolt directly to the engine block with nothing between. Just thought that if this motor was ever from a standard that plate may have been left on by mistake. Just sayin'...

[ggzilla]

A-series doesn't need nor use any shims for the starter. They are precision made, never seen one that didn't fit correctly.

[tycot1]

the car has always been an automatic and there is a plate between the trans and block. any thoughts on a direct or gear reduction starter when i order one tomorrow?

[ggzilla]

Er, I meant gear reduction is for ultra-cold climates (Alaska & Minnesota, etc).

Just buy whichever. It won't make much difference.

[datsunfreak]

I just remembered that the standards use an engine plate between the block and the transmission that is NOT used on the automatics. In other words the automatic should bolt directly to the engine block with nothing between.

 

How sure of this are you? When I bought my B210 the engine had been previously rebuilt. While replacing the starter (similar problem to the OP) I noticed the sandwich plate was not there. Thinking the person who installed the engine left it off by mistake, I shimmed the starter and the problem went away. Now I'm puzzled because I've never seen an auto that came without one, but this is my first go-round with an A-series autotragic... :huh:

 

Maybe the starter for the auto is different? The problem on mine turned out to be the nose of the starter rubbing the flywheel (hence the shimming idea).

 

For me it's all academic as I'll be swapping in a 5spd next week, but you do have me sufficiently curious... :P

[datzenmike]

Not positive ...My parts manual only lists the engine plate for the manual tranny. None shown for any automatic. A13/14/15. That's all I can say about it. :hmm:

[tycot1]

you are correct, no engine plate. i pulled the trans today and here are the pictures of the parts in the order they came out, does it look correct?

[tycot1]

this is the ring that went between the crank and the flex plate, the cupped side was facing the crank.

[datzenmike]

It appears to be fine.

[tycot1]

thanks guys. thanks mike

[ggzilla]

starters for manual and for auto are dimensionally identical. No real difference. Auto is 01.0 kilo watt, manual is 0.8 k watt. Weighs almost 2 pounds more but the case, nose and drive gear are the same. There are several vendors so there are differences, but not for auto vs manual. Get the Bosch brand (not a rebuild) if you have a choice, they are better than the Hitachis and Mitsubishi units.

 

Reduction gear free rev is 3900 RPM while the regular type is 7000 RPM

[tycot1]

i got the job done today and the car started right up. the only option i had for a starter was a Dixie, the unit was very small and about 2/3 the weight of the old one i had. later in the day i got a call from my regular parts guy who had found a bosch unit but it is a rebuild too. the last two units i put in the car were bosch and i seemed to have problems with the gear bushing wearing out. im not sure if i should put the bosch in or leave the gay little dixie one. i will probably buy the bosch and put it on the shelf just in case this one gets weird on me, it has a 2 year $ back guarantee, the bosch is one year exchange only.