blueridgespeed Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Well, it's been....TOO LONG since I was last here, but I got the struts have been mocked up for the 68 510 project. It will get the vg30et engine and a (modified) 240z rear suspension (chapman struts). There are superior cars here on this site, for sure, but we all have to work with "what we got" eh? Time is limited for this old gomer with kids, a wife, lots of home projects, and...oh yeah, a career in health care! I owe most of the credit for project progress to my friends. Several North Carolina datsun-heads have helped keep the madness alive, and another friend is a super-talented fabricator and painter - and instructor of both skills My last 510 was a 4-door with modified suspension for 1/2" drive ratchet-adjustable rear ride height and of course caster and toe adjustability. The engine was a mild 2.3 (plus) L-series with Mikuni 44's and a cam from the late David Weber of Malvern Racing (R.I.P) For possible inspiration to others, and for certain motivation to me, I'll post some old pics of that car below. This one is taking much longer, but, of course, the whole suspension and frame needs to be fabricated so I have to proceed with a specific order. I refuse to compromise on parts, and my time is limited, so it creeps forward ever so slowly. I made a debut post about, what? a year ago? I was too old and dumb to post pics, but maybe I've figured it out.... If there are none here - well, I guess I'm just getting older and dumber! Anyway, I really appreciate the content on this site. Keep up the good work, guys. -just try not to make the rest of us look too pitiful by comparison. http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/blueridgespeed/Datsun510sale077.jpg -the car (the last one - now gone to the next owner) http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/blueridgespeed/Datsun510sale095.jpg -the engine (of the last car) If this works, I'll post pics of the CURRENT project. Don't worry, no hurry, it doesnt' change much with each passing day!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment
INDY510 Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Holy SH!T,,, that is one clean dime,,, mmmm....:D Quote Link to comment
DISLEXICDIME Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 one day i will have a black dime. nice car! Quote Link to comment
Duke Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 Your old car was on Ebay a while ago wasn't it? I remember admiring how clean it was, awesome car. Quote Link to comment
Icehouse Posted January 26, 2008 Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 I want to see pics of the 68! :D Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted January 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2008 yep, I sold it last year to fund this project. Wolf man, stay tuned. I had the black car pics loaded onto photobucket by a friend with a decent connection. I've got #**#@###**! -dial-up and I couldn't get my current project pics to load yesterday. I'll keep trying. The car's a shell at the moment. But it's a 68 two-door! My friend had a 68-two door a few years ago. It was yellow and he put in a 2.2 L series with megasquirt FI. That car, my shell, and your 2 68's are the only other ones I know of. When I did ebay stuff last year, there was a guy with username "2 68 510's" -but I don't know if he has the cars still or not - and of course chances are they're 4-doors. -ok, I'm going to work on posting pics now.... Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 OK, so here's some of the shell. As you can see, the entire floor was removed. The rockers are entirely re-fabricated from a slightly thicker metal. A flat vertical plate on the interior, and (thanks to a local shop with a BIG metal brake) a nicely bent pair of outer panels, matched the OE ones perfectly from our template! Then the two were plug-welded..... -and finally a coat of primer. -things got a little more complex "notching" the underside of the cowl to fit the VG30 (tucked back for weight distribution) - because I wanted to retain the functional box-section of the cowl. I'll post some pics of that if folks are interested, but I'm not sure these links are working well, so... Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Nice work :cool: Keep it up :D Quote Link to comment
nismopu Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 OK, so here's some of the shell. As you can see, the entire floor was removed.http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/blueridgespeed/Jan300768510progress001.jpg The rockers are entirely re-fabricated from a slightly thicker metal. A flat vertical plate on the interior, and (thanks to a local shop with a BIG metal brake) a nicely bent pair of outer panels, matched the OE ones perfectly from our template! http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/blueridgespeed/jan1668510progress004.jpg Then the two were plug-welded..... http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/blueridgespeed/Jan2268510progress007.jpg -and finally a coat of primer. http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/blueridgespeed/Jan300768510progress005.jpg -things got a little more complex "notching" the underside of the cowl to fit the VG30 (tucked back for weight distribution) - because I wanted to retain the functional box-section of the cowl. I'll post some pics of that if folks are interested, but I'm not sure these links are working well, so... More pics! Quote Link to comment
Icehouse Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 DUDE!!!! How rusty was it? Do you have any pics of when you first got it? I thought my original one was rust..... :D Nice rockers too! Do you have plans for the suspension or is it going back to stock? Its seems like with that kind of a build you can go any route. Who could get mad, your saving that one for sure!!! I think in all my years of datsuns I've know of 6 of them. I guess yours makes 7 unless yours is the black primered one that was on ebay a few times. My list: ME ----------------------------- 2 Dave ----------------------------- 1 You ----------------------------- 1 yellow L injected ------------------- 1 Tana's friend (I've never seen it)--- 1 flat back one on Ebay twice--------- 1 7 68 2 doors that I can think of, I want to own them all!!! :D I think they are much more rare than the 67.5 2L roadsters. Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Wolf Man - you definitely have the '68 fever! This shell came to me from a Datsun brother here in Carolina. He has a BRE-style car (l-series) that's a 71-73 or so - he's owned that car since 1984. This 68 wasn't so rusty, but had a few isolated spots where it grew holes from sitting. The main rational for the "floor-ectomy" was to open up all the possibilites for suspension and happy geometry at lowered ride height. Besides the fender lips and wheel wells, the floor pan is the major impediment to a nice LOW car. Well, ask any of us for the "why" of a radical project and it doesn't always make sense, but after the last car was made much faster and handled much better than stock, I wanted...well....more. Power is relative, but good handling requires AT LEAST a stiff foundation and a reasonable amount of travel. Without those two, the best geometry or damping are lost. And.. HA! - the best geometry is way more complex than I want to deal with. -Tiltnose 510's RB26 car is great. That's an excellent rear suspension (it must be 240sx or z32.) - but I wanted to stick with something a little simpler. The C/V narrowing kinda threw me - a lot of custom work I wasn't able to completely get my mind around. The stock half shafts are easy to narrow (they'relittle hollow mini-driveshafts!) and I'm thinking that if they're not stressed by angulation (will lift the differential while the car goes down) they should be OK. I considered the stock rear suspension, but building in mount points for the A-arms with adjustability seemed to get rather chunky quite quickly. I like your solution for camber and toe, by the way! I'll have to show you a different solution we once came up with. Anyway, the chapman struts from a 240z will go in (shortened of course) and 280zx front struts (shortene). These selections are based largely on the fact that they were available to me and I have some knowlege about them. The 240z rear suspension is certainly not as sophisticated as a double-wishbone setup, but -witness a few FAST 240z's, it can be made to work. For the most part, I recognize that I'll have a bunch of "BIG IDEAS" based in some experience and (humbly) some decent logic, but I have SO LITTLE experience BUILDING A CAR compared to modern automotive engineers that I'm trying to stay on the simpler side. Hopefully, if nothing else it'll wind up being light! The VG30ET (without power accessories and with the necessary custom exhaust and intake) should be around 225hp (I won't have the $ or need to build it stronger right away), so I don't think that'll be too violent on the drivetrain, and I do plan to run moderate-sized street tires, so that'll be a nice "fuse" too. Anyway, as far as posting here, I'm borrowing a faster connection, so maybe I'll try to get a few more pics up - as requested by Nismopu. If this car ever amounts to anything like the projects I've seen here, I'll be one happy, proud fella! Here's one of a "motivational mock up" with the Libres and yes! , I realize those are not '68 fenders, just some newer ones I had handy for the mock up! Here's how the engine (should?.,,,Might?) fit. The bottom of the cowl was carefully sectioned and new metal was fitted, retaining the ventilation function (I hope?) Quote Link to comment
Duke Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 One more '68 2-door that I know of is the yellow one owned by Dan of DGR. It had a ca18de and now has a sr20de. Its a really clean car. Quote Link to comment
tiltnose510 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 That looks so much like mine when I started it. I put the shell on sawhorses with the whole floor pan cut out. Yours is way nicer a job than mine. I wish I had that kind of fab talent. (I'm working on being patient enough to do one that nice though.) The Z32 rear in mine was chosen because it was a lot simpler to narrow and put in and still retain geometry. The cv shafts weren't as complex as they seem. I didn't have them re-splined. (shame on me) It seems we're in the same boat because I had to work with what I had. I took them apart, stuck the outside pieces in lathe and took the splines out then crammed the axles back in at the length I needed and welded the outside thingys back on. Seem to be holding so far but the RB and slicks will be the decision maker. (I do have a diff and axles from a GTR sitting on the shelf at the ready) Keep up the progress, that's gonna be an awesome ride. Mark Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 That looks so much like mine when I started it. I put the shell on sawhorses with the whole floor pan cut out. Yours is way nicer a job than mine. I wish I had that kind of fab talent. (I'm working on being patient enough to do one that nice though.) The Z32 rear in mine was chosen because it was a lot simpler to narrow and put in and still retain geometry. The cv shafts weren't as complex as they seem. I didn't have them re-splined. (shame on me) It seems we're in the same boat because I had to work with what I had. I took them apart, stuck the outside pieces in lathe and took the splines out then crammed the axles back in at the length I needed and welded the outside thingys back on. Seem to be holding so far but the RB and slicks will be the decision maker. (I do have a diff and axles from a GTR sitting on the shelf at the ready) Keep up the progress, that's gonna be an awesome ride. Mark Mark, that's insteresting to hear about the c/v axles. I guess it's in the Datsun spirit to "use what we've got"... And the fab talent is not mine, it's my friends'. I'm becoming a passable welder, but he's got a much better "vision" for these things than I do. With both of us dreaming up ideas and then picking the best ones, it works out pretty well. It's a fantastic education helping him work. If you see graceful, clean welds, they're his! The big chunky "worms" are mine!! HA! Anyway, on the suspension... There are weak links in the 240z rear, to be sure, but the (s30) Z community have got a number of creative solutions worked out. Apparently the stub axles are one of those weak points, and the later 280z stubs are stronger. I've got a set to be pressed in when the strut tube shortening and coilover mount stuff is done. Ahhh, so many parts in so many places... I look forward to the day when they're at least bolted to something! Quote Link to comment
tiltnose510 Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Ahhh, so many parts in so many places... I look forward to the day when they're at least bolted to something! Like the shelves in my shop. I'm looking forward to seeing the progress on this car. It would be awesome with that EFI setup that whoever got a couple weeks back, the one with the canted ITBs off an imsa car. One of those ebay finds. Keep up the posts and don't be afraid to share ideas. Quote Link to comment
Icehouse Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Wolf Man - you definitely have the '68 fever! You better believe it :D I like collecting them because they are so hard to find, I don't really have any other reason :D This shell came to me from a Datsun brother here in Carolina. He has a BRE-style car (l-series) that's a 71-73 or so - he's owned that car since 1984. This 68 wasn't so rusty, but had a few isolated spots where it grew holes from sitting. Do you have any pics of the Datsun brothers farm? I want to see all there rigs :D The main rational for the "floor-ectomy" was to open up all the possibilites for suspension and happy geometry at lowered ride height. Besides the fender lips and wheel wells, the floor pan is the major impediment to a nice LOW car. I agree 100% I want to build basically the same style car as all you guys, I want to do my 1200 first though :D I don't have the balls to cut my 68's up yet hehe Well, ask any of us for the "why" of a radical project and it doesn't always make sense, but after the last car was made much faster and handled much better than stock, I wanted...well....more. Just say it, you wanted to lowest dime around :D You are trying to give me and Duke a challenge hehe Power is relative, but good handling requires AT LEAST a stiff foundation and a reasonable amount of travel. Without those two, the best geometry or damping are lost. Yeah semi trailing arms suck! unless you compare them to leaf springs with a solid axle :D And.. HA! - the best geometry is way more complex than I want to deal with. -Tiltnose 510's RB26 car is great. That's an excellent rear suspension (it must be 240sx or z32.) - but I wanted to stick with something a little simpler. The C/V narrowing kinda threw me - a lot of custom work I wasn't able to completely get my mind around. The stock half shafts are easy to narrow (they'relittle hollow mini-driveshafts!) and I'm thinking that if they're not stressed by angulation (will lift the differential while the car goes down) they should be OK. I think so but CV's wouldn't be that tough. I want to tame some for my car. I considered the stock rear suspension, but building in mount points for the A-arms with adjustability seemed to get rather chunky quite quickly. I like your solution for camber and toe, by the way! I'll have to show you a different solution we once came up with. I used Byrons brakes to fix my alignment. What is your idea? Anyway, the chapman struts from a 240z will go in (shortened of course) and 280zx front struts (shortene). These selections are based largely on the fact that they were available to me and I have some knowlege about them. The 240z rear suspension is certainly not as sophisticated as a double-wishbone setup, but -witness a few FAST 240z's, it can be made to work. So are you doing struts in the front to? For the most part, I recognize that I'll have a bunch of "BIG IDEAS" based in some experience and (humbly) some decent logic, but I have SO LITTLE experience BUILDING A CAR compared to modern automotive engineers that I'm trying to stay on the simpler side. I think the engineers spend more time trying to figure out how to make it the cheapest but still work relatively well. I just think of indy cars, they are designed to be as fast as possible on a twist track. They don't use pogo stick suspension, they sure aren't front wheel drive. They are low light with some classy suspension. If I could only get one and mount my 510 body on top of it :D haha Hopefully, if nothing else it'll wind up being light! It will be cool to see you bring it over the scales. The VG30ET (without power accessories and with the necessary custom exhaust and intake) should be around 225hp (I won't have the $ or need to build it stronger right away), so I don't think that'll be too violent on the drivetrain, and I do plan to run moderate-sized street tires, so that'll be a nice "fuse" too. 225 will be nothing to complain about. Anyway, as far as posting here, I'm borrowing a faster connection, so maybe I'll try to get a few more pics up - as requested by Nismopu. Sweet! If this car ever amounts to anything like the projects I've seen here, I'll be one happy, proud fella! All in good time.. Here's one of a "motivational mock up" with the Libres and yes! , I realize those are not '68 fenders, just some newer ones I had handy for the mock up! Here's how the engine (should?.,,,Might?) fit. The bottom of the cowl was carefully sectioned and new metal was fitted, retaining the ventilation function (I hope?) Are you going to stick with the libras? Not that I know much of your front suspension setup at this moment but.... This is just my 2 cents and nothing more, basically I like to think aloud just to see what everyone else thinks :D I think libras are a fine wheel but 0 offset is not that desirable from what I have read, well its better than a negative offset but it does fuck up the scrub radius. I know people run them on datsuns all the time and all... Having a good scrub radius must be important, look at BMW or again indy cars. check out the front offset If your building it from scratch you may want to look into it. I love the look of zero offset rims, you can't see them from the drivers seat though! haha One more '68 2-door that I know of is the yellow one owned by Dan of DGR. It had a ca18de and now has a sr20de. Its a really clean car. I will add it to the list :D Maybe I should start a 68 to door thread :D Quote Link to comment
VRTSid Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 this is really awesome. so weird looking at wheels engine cowl and fenders and nothing else :) Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Do you have any pics of the Datsun brothers farm? I want to see all there rigs :D No, sorry, no pics. It's not really a farm. Those guys have a 510 meeting every year, though, and about a dozen or so Datsuns show. Interestingly, there have been more and more z-cars showing up. I agree 100% I want to build basically the same style car as all you guys, I want to do my 1200 first though :D I don't have the balls to cut my 68's up yet hehe ooooo, 1200's are sweet. Even smaller! Seems like many modified ones become drag cars. The solid axle seems to urge this direction. I'd like to see one built for the curves. Just say it, you wanted to lowest dime around :D You are trying to give me and Duke a challenge hehe Yes, I love 'em low! The challenge is not sacrificing "fashion for function" too much. Yeah semi trailing arms suck! unless you compare them to leaf springs with a solid axle :D I think so but CV's wouldn't be that tough. I want to tame some for my car. Yep, chalk that up to "lesson number one" for me on this project. I suppose I could always go that route some day, but for now I've chosen my parts and I need to stay on track to have any hope of progress. I used Byrons brakes to fix my alignment. What is your idea? Well, for the rear, I'm using 240z parts to start with. With the z lower A-arms, there are some pretty simple fixes with heim joint/rod ends attaching the "uprights". If this setup is used, it can give camber and toe adjustability. What I'm talking about is where the A-arms attach to the cast hub-carrying unit at the bottom of the Chapman strut. Arizona Z car makes some nice ones that I cannot afford, but you can get the idea from looking at them. Theoretically, the stock A-arms could be modified at the outer end (with heims like I'm talking about) yet still retain stock - or perhaps urethane bushings at the inner pivots (near the centerline of the car, beside the differential). This would give adjustability, but still some noise isolation/dampening. .........I dunno, but will post when I start working on this part. So are you doing struts in the front to? Yeah, just plain 280zx struts, shortened, and with coilovers. With the V-6, particularly this one with the turbo hanging down by the driver's side engine mount, there are overall width limitations - so it looks like double wishbones are not going to fit. -Pretty cool to note that a big RB-26Det gives plenty of room due to being inline! +1 more for tiltnose! I realize that turbo relocation could solve part of this problem, but the stock internal wastegate NON INTERCOOLED setup appeals to me. Driving the donor car around, it truly has imperceptable lag, and I think that's pretty cool for a turbo car. I realize that I could gain big power with other turbo setups (uh, and by adding an intercooler!) but "throttle response" is a big deal for me and my fun factor. I'm thinking it'll be sweet in this car, but we'll just have to see... I think the engineers spend more time trying to figure out how to make it the cheapest but still work relatively well. I just think of indy cars, they are designed to be as fast as possible on a twist track. They don't use pogo stick suspension, they sure aren't front wheel drive. They are low light with some classy suspension. If I could only get one and mount my 510 body on top of it :D haha -yeah, and the ability to manufacture cheaply/efficiently is a big consideration - and given that much of the modern builiding process is automated, it's just natural that we come up with different solutions when we Datsun nuts are building stuff with hacksaws, hammers, and welders! It will be cool to see you bring it over the scales. Are you going to stick with the libras? Not that I know much of your front suspension setup at this moment but.... This is just my 2 cents and nothing more, basically I like to think aloud just to see what everyone else thinks :D -probably not. The 13' diameter is pretty limiting, and by my calculations, brakes vs. horsepower could get a little sketchy. 280zx brakes will fit, but a little more room is nice. I think libras are a fine wheel but 0 offset is not that desirable from what I have read, well its better than a negative offset but it does fuck up the scrub radius. I know people run them on datsuns all the time and all... Having a good scrub radius must be important, look at BMW or again indy cars. check out the front offset If your building it from scratch you may want to look into it. I love the look of zero offset rims, you can't see them from the drivers seat though! haha 0-offeset rims are definitely an issue. For the front, the scrub radius is a factor for sure. You point this out, so I'm sure you are 100% aware! I like the "deep dish" look that 0- or negative offset wheels give, but they are definitely not going to make a big comeback. The physics just dictate otherwise. For me the wheel choices are a mix of aesthetics and function. I'd say 15x6.5 or 7's would work nicely on my car, but just stepping up and buying a set of newish/ strong 4x113/5 wheels costs money. I recently found a set of the coveted Watanabe's. Since they are so rare, and my car is so far from done, I took a "side project" and cleaned them up within an inch of their lives, ran some glass bead through my blaster, and then selected the best PPG color I could find to paint them with. A set of wheels with tires mounted is CRUCIAL to a tight-clearances build like this, so the Wat's are setting at the ready for when I get to that point of mock up.. I will add it to the list :D Maybe I should start a 68 to door thread :D Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 The Watanabe type b's - as the paint cures! Currently, I plan to run these instead of the Libres. There slightly staggered, with 0.5 greater width in the rear. The fronts have more (positive) offset than the Libre's, but still a nice 'lip'. Quote Link to comment
Icehouse Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Those rims are bad ass!! Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Metal work is time-consuming! This project is going to have a "removable face" (radiator support) and therefore the radiator support is being strengthened slightly for the job. The FACTORY VG30ET radiator (which lies down at an angle in the Z31 application) is much larger than the 510 unit, so the opening in the support has been enlarged by sectioning the existing flanged edges, removing metal, and replacing them. This worked out with about 1/8" to spare and still retained all the factory grill and headlight mounting tabs/ holes. The lower valence had been removed, so it's being cleaned up at the same time and will be spotted back on. Pics to follow! Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted March 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Not dead yet- but the metalwork was killing me! After a time-consuming series of steps to rehabilitate the struts, hubs, and calipers front and rear, the 280zx/240z/280z/Maxima conglomeration of suspension and brake parts are coming together. I got enough rebuilt to bolt the wheels on (well, on to the struts, anyway). I'll be needing a "car" of some sort to connect all this together soon enough! But staying true to my "slowest moving" theme, it's going on as planned. The "4 corners" (ie: the wheels and their "hard point" attachments) are being fleshed out - which needs to happen prior to the frame planning. Getting new stuff bolted together is great for DATSUN project morale! Quote Link to comment
moparvwfreak Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 very nice! but i dont think you ahve the slowest moving project. one of mine is clicking 11 years and counting. i am still in the parts gathering phase of it but its non datsun related so yeah.... nice looking project all in all though. cant wait to see it done. Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Got the front strut assemblies together yesterday.... Quote Link to comment
blueridgespeed Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Just to get some idea of how it will/may/could.... Uh, I DREAM? -it will look someday..... Quote Link to comment
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