Feng Shui (The 510 Experiment) (Pics fixed through page 7..)

[Josh K.]

I would personally never run boost without either a standalone or chipped ECU. AFR's and timing are so critical. I would never use a FMU, Boost Timing Retard or SAFC because you can't adjust a signal to try to get the maps in the right place, you'll end up either in a lean spot or the wrong area of the timing map. From what I've seen no motor lives without addressing timing, period! Detonation is like slamming the piston with a hammer! http://community.ratsun.net/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

 

Here's a stock KA timing MAP

 

 

 

Lets say you pull 10DEG of timing out, then use a SAFC to correct for MAF and Injectors. Now that SAFC Adjustment moved you down and over 4 cells. You could jump back the 10DEG you pulled and end up boosting 15PSI at 35DEG timing. BYE BYE PISTONS! http://community.ratsun.net/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif Now throw a supercharger on there which has 10PSI off idle which is in the 40-46DEG timing area of the map.... There is an art to the high timing/off boost and transition to the low/timing/ boost area of the map. It can do a whole lot for spooling the turbo.

 

You may know all this info already but maybe someone reading this doesn't.

 

I plan on putting the car on the dyno and tuning with a knock senor/O2 sensor to make sure I'm 100% realiable.

 

As for the MAP issue with Nistune. I have one of these on the shop bench MAP-ECU I used it in my quest to remove the MAF. Living in Maui I didn't feel comfortable with its lack of altitude correction. i think they solved that now as i had the first version they released.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Josh K.

[Josh K.]

Here's a 16PSI SR Timing map for reference.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Josh K.

[Josh K.]

Here's a good write-up by Pete from PLMS. I got my base tune from him for my SR with the Nistune. It was almost spot on.

 

SR20DET IGN timing.

 

1) Load Scales. You've got to get your load scales right for the combination of hardware you're using. This means injector size and AFM size - which both affect your K constant. Once you've got K approx right you need to adjust your load scales so that at max boost the last load column is just being used. If the figures in your load scales are too high then you'll find that you'll be using values towards the centre of the map instead of those out towards the right side. Meaning IGN timing figures higher than you want = detonation.

 

If your load scale values are too low then it'll bang straight over to the last load column even before full boost is reached. Usually resulting in timing which is too retarded at lower boost levels. It'll work (and I've seen many tunes like this) but it's a long way from optimal. It's typically what happens if somebody cranks boost up and doesn't adjust the load scales.

 

2) SR turbos typically have a somewhat unusual timing curve in that you need to remove a lot of timing in the midrange to avoid detonation (I find I'm usually using 11 to 13 degrees here at 15psi). I can only assume that this is because they tend to generate a lot of midrange torque and reach max VE quite early. Once revs start to rise the VE drops off and you can start to feed timing in again. They love timing at high revs. It can really wake them up if you can avoid detonation. Typical values are 18 to 22 degrees at 15psi.

 

3) Boost transition area. This can make a big difference to driveability and it's something that can only be done on the actual car cos it varies greatly, depending mainly on turbo size. Little 'uns boost up early, so you gotta be quick to pull timing out as they boost up. It's the big 'uns that really benefit from more timing here. Crank in the timing as boost is ramping up and it can really help liven them up. The standard technique is to have the "trail" function on in NIStune. Then do some runs and let it paint which cells are being accessed. Then go to town in these cells in the timing map.

 

4) Fuel economy. Adding timing in the low load areas and tweaking your AFR's will help here. And often improve part throttle response. But don't go too crazy or your SR will get all nasty and jerky. And I don't mean beef.

 

5) Unhappy engines. Sometimes you'll get an engine that just won't take timing. This will mean that power is down. And it's usually due to something like a restrictive exhaust/intercooler messing things up. And/or small turbo.

 

6) Happy engines. Other times you can add a bit more timing. This usually happens when somebody has paid attention to detail and fitted a quality intercooler with good plumbing and a decent dump pipe with free flowing exhaust. And/or big turbo. As soon as you can add more timing the power will come. As an example I did Matt's R34 (sure - it's not an SR but the same rules apply) and it made 220rwkw on 11 to 12psi. That was just a baseline run without even touching the ECU tune. Then I did my brother's R34. Even after 2 hours hard tuning on the dyno it struggled to make 200rwkw. The difference was that Matt's car was fitted with quality name-brand components - ARC front-mount and a full NISMO exhaust and dump. My brother's car had a cheapy eBay front-mount, factory cast dump pipe and an unknown 3" exhaust that was on the car when he bought it.

 

7) AFR's. If you add more fuel then you can usually add more timing. But it's a real trade-off as to where to aim. You'll get more power with more timing (to a point of course) but running richer mixtures will usually make less power. So you gain with one and lose with the other. There are various schools of thought here but I personally aim for around 12:1 on lower boost cars and richen things a bit to 11.6 - 11.8 once we turn things up a bit. Ideally you'd monitor EGT's to work out best mixtures and then tune IGN timing to suit I guess. One of my friends had his CA18 tuned by asking the tuner to "crank in IGN until it detonates and then put it out with fuel". I'll never know if this was a good technique (or what figures they ran) but the car went exceptionally well.

 

Fuels. We pretty much tune for 98 RON fuel here. So all timing figures I've referred to are for this fuel. If you can get better fuel then go for it. You'll be able to add timing and get more power. If your fuel quality is poor then I'm afraid you'll need to back things off...

 

9) Ethanol based fuels. My favourite thing. Once you go here then all bets are off. E10 will let you add quite a bit more timing and the power curve will simply march upwards. And E85 is the madman. I've found that anything with ethanol in it will help you to fill in that classic SR20 midrange hole in the timing map. And up top you can run the extra timing that the SR craves - keeping power coming way past their typical 6500 roll-off point. Actual values vary hugely though, so I'm not even gonna mention any figures. E85 is quite spooky - you can keep adding timing without hearing any detonation. So you need to watch the torque curve and simply stop adding timing when torque stops increasing.

 

10) Safety factor. Remember that just cos it was a nice cool day when you tuned your engine, it may not always be like that. Here in Australia we get down to less than 10 degrees C daytime temps in winter and above 40 degrees in summer. If you tune to the edge in the middle of winter then you'll become good mates with the engine builder come summer. Forget the big number at the top of the dyno sheet and remove a couple degrees - no matter how many times your SR asks you to leave it in there.

 

These are just things I've learned. I'm not a professional tuner and I wouldn't wanna be - although I probably tune one car every week or two. I feel for the guys who do this every day. But as a hobby/obsession it suits me just fine. And I've been lucky enough to hang with some very smart people who live to tune - and have given me direction when needed. Simon at Morpowa, Trent at Status Tuning and Skyline Stu - thanks guys.

[WAGON JON]

Ok, put that KA in, we want to see those wheels spin!

[Josh K.]

Ok, put that KA in, we want to see those wheels spin!

 

 

It might go back in this weekend but it will come right back out after mock up is done....

 

How about March time frame for completion?

 

 

[Josh K.]

Incase anyone is wondering about the air to water intercooler. Here's what the core looks like.

 

 

I'll basically take the intercooler I posted before. cut the sides off and make a plenum to house it between the supercharger and intake manifold. Water will run from a low mounted radiator to a 12v pump and then get sent through the intercooler core to cool the hot air being discharged from the supercharger. I've seen that the M62's get pretty heat soaked so for $200 and some fab time I can have nice cool intake temps.

 

After talking with Doug at UpGarage I decided I'm going to keep the boost levels low (3-5psi) since the with the Nistune I cannot change the timing based on intake temps (to prevent knock/detonation). When I can afford the 2G's for a real standalone then I can crank up the boost to 12-15psi....

Edited July 20, 2022 by Josh K.

[Icehouse]

 

After talking with Doug at UpGarage I decided I'm going to keep the boost levels low (3-5psi) since the with the Nistune I cannot change the timing based on intake temps (to prevent knock/detonation). When I can afford the 2G's for a real standalone then I can crank up the boost to 12-15psi....

 

2G's!!! That's a bit steep IMO. To me Megasquirt is the way to go, 249 bucks plus shipping and it can do anything a normal dude would ever want to do, including IAT retard, which now that you have mentioned that I'm going to see about setting it up on my rig. Megasquirt is not the easiest to hook up though. Lots of reading, testing and trouble shooting. It's not for everyone that's for sure, but for a guy like me that loves learning and enjoys being able to run any RPM trigger any ignition any injectors and it cost less than most piggy back systems its just a no brainer.

 

You could always just tune the Nistune a little conservative in the timing department, then you wouldn't have to worry about knocks. I agree though, with a stock block I wouldn't push the boost to high. KA's don't like that.

 

P.S. I will try and remember to take a vid of my truck tomorrow. Keep forgetting :)

[Bob3]

It might go back in this weekend but it will come right back out after mock up is done....

 

How about March time frame for completion?

 

 

I understand. ;)

[Josh K.]

I like the idea of the Megasquirt but that would be way more then I can bite off right now as I'm so OCD I would have to learn every thing in the world about it.... I would go with the 2G standalone but I can't afford it..... It's definitely the cats meow!

 

The thing with air to water cooler and superchargers in general is the heat soak. The intake temps could possibly reach 220f when road or autocross racing. If this happens you gotta pull timing real fast or bad things happen. What I'm considering is running this http://www.stageonet...CU-(90-97).html paired with the Nistune ECU. This way I can tune the car for optimal condition and then adjust the ACU to pull timing as the IAT's rise. I think this would be kick ass. So cost would be $850 for Doug at UpGarage to install the Nistune and dyno tune and $225 for the Bipes ACU. This would be around $1150 for a high HP yet trackable tune. Doug's dyno is a load dyno so he can hold the engine at a specific cell while he dials the timing and afr. Once thats done he can hit all the transitions to fine tune the maps. It's really the only way I would have my car tuned.

 

I really want to run around 10psi since the 370's will handle it, anymore and now I have another expense, maf and 550's...

 

We'll see, either I'll have the money this month or I'll be staying N/A with the supercharger down the road :(

[Josh K.]

I understand. ;)

 

 

What am I doing in front of a computer? I got work to do!

 

I pulled my seat covers off and discovered Miata leather seats with headrest speakers in them! I just ordered a kick ass set of replacement speakers ;) It looks like someone spray painted the seats? I'll take pics today as I try to clean them up.

[Josh K.]

Ok, back to reality as I have a LOT of work to do on this thing before I can drive her again!

 

I finished the seat mounts. Now I just need to find a way to remove the vinyl paint from my leather seats?

 

 

What a mess!

 

 

Motor is back in for mock up.

 

 

Planning the wiring harness.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Josh K.

[Josh K.]

I need a little motivation, today I busted my ass but came out of it feeling a little overwhelmed. I'm going to focus on getting the car running and keep the supercharger as phase 2.

 

Grind all excess mounting points and material off intake manifold.

Hot tank manifold and weld up egr port and PCV ports.

Weld water neck where clearanced for alternator belt.

Machine a catch can for the PCV.

Weld in passenger seat mount.

Weld a slash pipe in the exhaust to vent.

Machine a oil filter relocation plate.

Machine a new IACV Body.

Redo the whole Engine harness and relay/fues system. (Started today)

Cutout the "hump" floor section and weld in new/old floor..

Finish scraping the sound mat off the floors.

Weld up all holes in the floor.

Weld the new shift boot section from underneath the car and seal/paint

Seal/paint the floor inside the car.

Redo the whole exhaust system (possibly dual 2" with a crossover midway)

Possibly make a new transmission mount to reroute exhaust.

Finish modding gauge cluster to make aftermarket tach match white needle gauge set.

Slot rear crossmember and possibly cut second hole for dual 2" exhaust.

 

 

So the list for tomorrow is as follows:

 

Finish mocking up the wiring harness and accessories.

Pull the motor back out.

Cutout the "hump" floor section and weld in new/old floor.

Finish scraping the sound mat off the floors.

Weld up all holes in the floor.

Weld the new shift boot section from underneath the car and seal/paint

 

This means next week/weekend I can sand/prep and POR15 the floors. Thats a lot of work but it needs to be done so I can move forward with other areas.

[Josh K.]

Yesterday I drove to Maple valley and picked up 4 studded snow tires for $200, they came off a 86 720 2wd (Mines an 85). They even came mounted on some sweet rims http://community.ratsun.net/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Josh K.

[Josh K.]

I took some time off for other projects, today back to work making some fun stuff.

 

Here's my design for the oil relocation plate. Gonna program and start cutting it now....

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Josh K.

[DISLEXICDIME]

those are d50 wheel's . I have studs all the way around my truck also. :lol:

[Josh K.]

those are d50 wheel's . I have studs all the way around my truck also. :lol:

 

I thought that when I first seen them :) Definitely looks better then it did before!

[Josh K.]

Here's some high speed machining on an old ass tree mill..... :)

 

 

I could've went way faster but for one part it's not worth the risk.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHNrq4rWR-k

[Josh K.]

First side done, just gotta tap the holes..

 

 

Here's one for you Icehouse!!!! http://community.ratsun.net/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Josh K.

[Josh K.]

All done, now off to the shop and see if it actually fits......

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Josh K.

[Icehouse]

AWESOME!!! I like the video, you program much different than I do (not that I'm even close to a real machinist). You should send me the DXF file :)

[WAGON JON]

Nice!

[Josh K.]

On 12/12/2010 at 2:43 PM, Icehouse said:

AWESOME!!! I like the video, you program much different than I do (not that I'm even close to a real machinist). You should send me the DXF file http://community.ratsun.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

It's Dynamic Milling. This is what it looks like when you crank it up!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGE94pOkI4M

 

I somehow measured the bolt spacing wrong, it works but I had to enlarge the holes slightly. I might redo the model and make another one..... If I do... you want 2D or Solid Model?

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Josh K.

[Josh K.]

On another note..... My dad is on this season of "Ax Men". Bob "The Colonel" Kinney on the Papac crew in Alaska.

[Josh K.]

Rev 2.0

 

This time I'm going to make a 0.125" plate with this bolt pattern and test fit before making the whole thing.... I made the mistake of thinking the pattern was symmetrical......

 

 

[nis720]

Nice... some guys on Zilvia.net made some oil filter relocators. I bought the protype from them but never got around to installing it. It has additional ports for oil feed line (turbo).