My 710 & her ongoing issues...

[BRuZED]

I originally had a nasty overheat back in Aug.

http://http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?t=1327

 

Since then I started back into my 710 and then I had re-injured my back which kept me side-lined up to 1 week ago or so...

 

I dove back in....

I now have a complete to spec(or to my fullest intent and knowledge) 710!

 

But then theres the problem....

 

She is getting spark and fuel but is not starting up!?

I'm willing to bet it's the timing, but I have adjusted the dist. to no avail.

:confused:

 

Is there any other things i should be looking for/@

 

any ideas getting this L20b rockin' again would be gracious and appreciated!

*thanx!*

[]2eDeYe]

Dizzy 180 out?

[Mark_Z28]

If it getting spark and fuel even with it being 180 out you should be getting at least a backfire out the carb or exhaust, unless it so flooded out it drowns out the spark.

[makya]

do you have a timing light?

[BRuZED]

I have accesss to a timing light(i know i need one....)

 

I'm gonna go give it the 180*

-We'll see....

[datzenmike]

You shouldn't need to 180 it, if the cam and drive spindle was installed correctly the first time. Did you get and follow Hainz's vid?

 

Cam set in proper relation to TDC (compression)#1 piston.

Distributor/oil pump drive spindle installed in the classic '11:28' position.

Distributor installed with ROTOR, pointing to the #1 spark plug wire on top of cap.

All wires going to proper spark plugs. Don't assume!

Valve lash set, so valves will open AND close.

Intake manifold and carb mounted tightly, no vacuum leaks.

 

If all the above done, there's no way this can't start.

[BRuZED]

Okay, so we re-checked the oil pump spindle, sure enough, it was off. Pulled the pump, reset the spindle, hooked everything back up, and she still won't fire up, though we have quite the backfire going on now. I tried to advance the distributor but she only turns clockwise so far. So, let's recap...

 

Cam set in proper relation to TDC (compression)#1 piston.

 

Yes, cam is dead-on.

 

Distributor/oil pump drive spindle installed in the classic '11:28' position.

 

This I'm curious about. When we put it in, it wasn't quite what I'd call "11:28", maybe more like 11:25 or so. Can this be off by a tooth? Should it be lining up exactly with the bolt holes in the mount?

 

Distributor installed with ROTOR, pointing to the #1 spark plug wire on top of cap.

 

This is good.

 

 

All wires going to proper spark plugs. Don't assume!

 

Also good.

 

Valve lash set, so valves will open AND close.

 

also good.

 

Intake manifold and carb mounted tightly, no vacuum leaks.

 

This I'm assuming is good, it's kind of hard to check without the engine running, isn't it? Also, is this problem alone enough to cause a no-start situation?

 

Any more ideas, guys? We'd love to get her fired up tonight.

[69FJWagon]

I had`the same problem on my first 510... after a new this and that and days of mess'n with it turned out to be a 2 dollar part the condensor replaced that and first turn of the key it fired up. may be worth a look

[yello620]

 

Distributor/oil pump drive spindle installed in the classic '11:28' position.

 

This I'm curious about. When we put it in, it wasn't quite what I'd call "11:28", maybe more like 11:25 or so. Can this be off by a tooth? Should it be lining up exactly with the bolt holes in the mount?

 

 

Distributor installed with ROTOR, pointing to the #1 spark plug wire on top of cap.

 

This is good.

 

 

All wires going to proper spark plugs. Don't assume!

 

Also good.

 

 

 

 

I have seen the 11:25 position written in one of my manuals. However, if it is not correct by one spline it makes it more like 11:15-11:20. So i am betting that it is correct now. But cant hurt to recheck it.

Wires to the proper plugs, Dont assume. Common mistake is to have #1 correct and then install then clockwise, when they should be counterclockwise. Clockwise wires WILL make the cough and backfire through the carb.

 

Jason

[]2eDeYe]

Checking for vaccum leaks on a non-runner is fairly simple.

Remove the air cleaner.

Cover and seal the top of the carb with your hand.

If it fires up you have massive vacuum leaks.

If it still won't start and you hand is sucked tight to the carb, you can cross that off of the list ;)

[BRuZED]

2eDeYe;34233']Checking for vaccum leaks on a non-runner is fairly simple.

Remove the air cleaner.

Cover and seal the top of the carb with your hand.

If it fires up you have massive vacuum leaks.

If it still won't start and you hand is sucked tight to the carb' date=' you can cross that off of the list ;)[/quote']

 

 

Good seal.

It sucked good n' tight!

*still not starting ....:confused:

[BRuZED]

I have seen the 11:25 position written in one of my manuals. However, if it is not correct by one spline it makes it more like 11:15-11:20. So i am betting that it is correct now. But cant hurt to recheck it.

Wires to the proper plugs, Dont assume. Common mistake is to have #1 correct and then install then clockwise, when they should be counterclockwise. Clockwise wires WILL make the cough and backfire through the carb.

 

Jason

 

Plugs are now 'triple checked'

and so it the clockwise order....

 

I will re-check the pump minana...

[banzai510(hainz)]

11.25 or 11.28 is close enough

drop the dizzy in and where it points should be close to a plug wire. youll mark that as #1 and go Counter clockwise 1 3 4 2 fire order.

 

If you have points dizzy the points will be OPEN posisition.

If you have a elelctic dizzy the magnet prongs should line up when on #1 at TDC or the close enough when you turn the dizzy adv or retartded.(Move ment in the slotted timmingplate)

YOu could always remove the 10mm head bolt holding the timming plate /dizzy and just move it one way or the other till it seems like its going to fire. If it starts running then you just migh be off a tooth or got the timming plate pedastal mixed up or something(Should not be it its the org dizzy)

 

Gas is being squirted in the Carb? YOu see it? If yes then call the carb good enough to suck up enough gas to go BANG

 

Valve alsh is cked??????

 

this should fire

 

 

ONly other thing is maybe the if someone fucked with the wires and the hot START is going thru the ballast resisitor(if a point vehicle).But dont change anything on this if your sure it was OK before.

 

L20s do have alot more pullution crap on them!!!!!!!!!!!

[yello620]

Plugs are now 'triple checked'

and so it the clockwise order....

 

I will re-check the pump minana...

 

COUNTERCLOCKWISE

[mklotz70]

how are you checking for spark? If you are simply pulling the wire and not the plug, I highly suggest pulling the plugs and see if there's spark at the plugs themselves.....I don't care if they're brand new, don't take if for granted. I spent weeks replacing everything once...because I'd just put in new plugs so it couldn't be that. When I finally checked the plugs themselves, most were bad. Put the old ones back in...fired first click. I've seen this at least 3 different times!!!

[LenRobertson]

I gotta agree that sticking new plugs in is a wise move, even if they look good. I ran into this with both my cars when trying to clear up the bad gas problems. A local mechanic claims Autolite plugs are bad about fouling like this - he sells them, too, so he has had experience with them. He got me a set of NGKs and the car started. Although maybe it would have fired up on new Autolites. I'm not convinced he is right about this, but I'll keep buying NGKs to be safe.

 

I have burned the carbon off fouled plugs with a propane torch, when I didn't have any other choice, but new plugs are better. I used to think if a plug looked clean it must be okay, but there seems to be a condition with raw gas that can short them out somehow. Anyone have a theory on this?

 

I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but pouring a little bit (maybe a teaspoon full?) of fresh gas down the carb throat will give the engine something to run on if there is a carb problem. But you have to be careful and use good sense. Don't pour it out of a gas can - use just a little in a tin can. Get your big gas can away from the car, a long way away. Pour it before you try cranking the engine, not while cranking. Don't try dumping more into an engine that is trying to run and you think just needs more gas. If there is a backfire through the carb, you don't want your hand and even a little gas in a can right there. I know a mechanic who ended up in the hospital burned pretty bad trying this trick. If the engine won't fire and run this way, dumping more gas in probably won't do any good. But make sure the plugs are good before pouring gas in. If it won't run a few seconds with new plugs and gas down the carb, then maybe you do have a serious timing issue.

[Cruzn620]

last time i had this problem...i found a staple in my #1 cylinder valve seat. i had given up hope on the entire project, but checked all 4 cylinders for compression (friend cranked the motor over while i held my thumb over each spark plug hole) and noticed there was no compression on #1, yet, the truck ran before i tore it down. got the head off...boom...staple. we have no clue how it got in there! i put it all back together and after solving a few vacuum leak issues, the truck runs fine

[banzai510(hainz)]

Ask datsun Noob about not changing the spark plugs!!!!!!!!

after I drive to his house to look at this!!!!!!!!!I had to supply the spark plugs

[Guest DatsuNoob]

Ask datsun Noob about not changing the spark plugs!!!!!!!!

after I drive to his house to look at this!!!!!!!!!I had to supply the spark plugs

 

What a guy, it only costed me $20 for his gas trouble, and eternal embarrassment for a set of used Autolite platinums. :fu: My NGK's were brand spankin new, and a slight upgrade to the low end Autolites, but they crapped out way before their time. I don't get it. Sometimes more $$ spent isn't always better.

[BRuZED]

Gar.

 

Ok, so we checked the plugs for spark, sure enough they were hella weak. Also, upon closer inspection we found some cracks on the dist. cap up by the carbon brush, so we went and got new plugs, cap, rotor, and wires. Got them in this afternoon, and now the backfire is constant, which I guess is an improvement over the intermittent backfire, but she still won't light up. And no amount of adjustment of the distributor makes a difference.

 

So, with enough spark and gas to cause constant backfire, what could be causing a no-start situation? Does the dist. spindle need further adjustment? I'm just having a hard time figuring out WHY SHE WON'T LIGHT UP!

[BRuZED]

***UPDATE***

 

Ok.

I got her TDC & checked the points = OPEN

then looked at the position of the rotor = in between #1 & #3.

 

Soooo....

I'm back to thinking i may haffta re-stab the dist.

 

any thoughts>?

[Guest DatsuNoob]

Check the firing order 1-3-4-2, are you running a stock carb? Maybe anti- backfire valve is fucked? check the connection of your ballast resistor. Also check the intake manifold connection. If it's loose it'll run like shit. Try to find an EI distributor, adjusting/replacing points sucks. Or you could go pertronix. obviously it's either a fuel or spark issue if your timing is set. I had a similar problem when trying to run my truck after switching to a weber. Had ol' Hainz scratching his head on that one, but in the end my problem was fouled plugs. I tried to get my truck running on a maladjusted carb and gunked up my plugs after repeatedly trying to start her up. It actually happened real fast because they were brand new when I started and blacker than shit after about an hour. Good luck, and let me know what you find out.

[Guest DatsuNoob]

I wonder if your fuel pump is any good, have you disconnected the supply to see if any comes out. Sometimes the arms on the mechanical fuel pump crap out. I wonder if it's possible she's getting only enough gas to cough and not enough to run. You should have right around 3-5 pounds. Have you checked the fuel filter yet? Fuel lines on a 30+ yr old vehicle tend to be pretty plugged sometimes.

[banzai510(hainz)]

if between 1 & 3 then the pedastal is WRONG for that distributor(mismatched parts).So you can fix this by dropping the oil pump and turning the spinal in the direction of #1 plug wire. This is the only time where you dont want the 11.28 position is cause there is a wrong part installed as some L20 had 2 types of pedastals(Mostly seen on the matchbox dizzys) where the 10mm bolt tang is located a few degs off and put s the rotor in the wrong position iwhen the timming plate is secure. aBut this should have took this out if you went buy my earlier instruction (remove the 10mm bolt that holds the timming plate)just to turn the dizzy

This would also appiy if a electronic and the rotor pointed to a plug wire but the prongs dont line up to fire.

 

OK just to see if this works remove the 10mm bolt and turn the dist close to the #1 plug wire and hopefully the point is still close to open. while holding the dizzy with your hand have somebody start the truck and it should fire.

 

I believe your close.

Long as the valves are adjusted.(fully closing and you got gas this shoule be close to firing off.

 

Now I am assuming nothin was changed from before cause this car was running. Right? If was running good before then then the oil pump was already installed off to make this work.

I have to assume the motor is assembled per the book and everything is standard. All L motor ligne dup to TDC I can take any 4 cyl L mosotr dist and with the correct pedadstal/dizzy set up(should alwasy come together as a set) should bolt right in whiether . pedastal can be mounted 180 off to put the vacuum adavance in another location just move the plug wires) Now the confusing start when people buy differnt dizzys w/o the peadastal or buy rebuilds from different years as the timming plate or pedastal dont match up. and over the years people rig this up. Some mount the timming plate upside down to get what they want.

 

also remember on the back side of the dizzy is a 8mm bolt where you can adjust the timming plate to more advance or retard.

[goldy_Adel]

I recently had some issues with getting an old engine running. My problem turned out to be a lack of power to the fuel cut-off solenoid valve on a stock carby. This valve ensures the low speed carby circuits do not have fuel when you want to stop the engine.