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Atomatic to Manual swap


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#1 VintageRice

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 02:47 PM

Is there a tech article on swapping out a 510 automatic to a stick?

What parts are needed and also how hard are they to find??

4 speed from 510 or 5 speed from z car right??

Looking at a auto car and wanted to know my options. Do NOT want an auto...

Thanks :D

#2 datzenmike

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 03:47 PM

Couple of choices to make first:

Which transmission?

1/ Stock F4W63 4 spd. for a 510. It fits without modifying the drive shaft length! They are available and cheap from people who have swapped to a 5 spd.

2/ FS5W63A 5 spd. from a '77-'79 S10 (200sx) or '79 US or '79-'80 A10 (later HL510 with the optional 5 speed) They fit without changing the drive shaft length but the rear mount must be modified.

3/ any FS5W71B from '77-'79 620, '77-'83 280z and zx, '80 720 2wd or '79-'84 Maxima. Drive shaft will need to be shortened and rear mount modified. Shifter hole must be relocated 5-6" further back and you need a longer speedometer cable.

(try to get the shifter assy, the clutch arm and the slave cylinder with the transmission)


Things needed:

A set of 510 clutch and brake peddles, including the mounting hardware, springs etc.
A clutch master cylinder including the push rod that connects it to the clutch peddle.
A clutch slave cylinder if there isn't one on the transmission you get. There should be a push rod with this connecting it to the clutch arm, or you will need to get one.
A hard line from the master toward the slave connected to a flex line from the vehicle body to the slave. Similar to a brake flex line. You can buy pre-made brake lines and make your own bends.
The transmission must have a clutch arm on it or get one for it. It might come with one.
A pilot bearing carefully hammered into the hole in the end of the crankshaft with a block of wood. The very front of the transmission input shaft slides into this bushing and is supported by it. Do NOT grease it. It is oil impregnated sintered bronze and does not need grease. Grease will only collect dust from the clutch disc.
You will need a 5 bolt hole flywheel for the end of the crankshaft. When you remove your automatic be sure to remove the spacer plate on the end of the crankshaft. It will have one. Pry it off before trying to mount the flywheel.
You need a 200mm clutch and pressure plate assy. to fit your flywheel. A good one will also come with a release bearing housing of the correct length matched to work with that 200mm pressure plate. It may, or should have a plastic splined dowel to properly align the clutch disc before bolting down the pressure plate.
One new release bearing properly greased (they are supplied dry) to press onto the release bearing housing. The release bearing clips onto the clutch arm.
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#3 VintageRice

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 03:55 PM

Wow, thats a great reply. Tons of info, thanks!

All I woulda got over at the realm is why do you want a manual? We need more info, what color is your car bla bla bla.


THANKS RATSUN!


:D

#4 datzenmike

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 04:19 PM

That's just off the top of my head. May be a few more things.The realm is ok, you just need to know how to ask.
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#5 mklotz70

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 04:59 PM

I may have a set of pedals.
Don't have to be too bright to be me!! :D
Sadly, I prove this nearly everyday!!! :(
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#6 qwik510

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:01 PM

I have a complete manual pedal assembly, manual steering column cover and manual gas pedal for the auto to manual swap. PM me if you are interested.

You would still need the manual trans, flywheel, clutch assembly, clutch master and slave and the fluid lines.

Also, I've determined, I'm not a hoarder, I'm a collector.
As I'm sure a lot of the old school datsun guys are.



Enjoy the Ride!


David



1972 Datsun 510(Pete Brock's 510)
1977 Datsun 620 King Cab (Barn Find)

#7 datzenmike

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:29 PM

I have a complete manual pedal assembly, manual steering column cover and manual gas pedal for the auto to manual swap. PM me if you are interested.


I have heard that the gas pedals are different also. My 710 is an auto but you can see where another pedal assy could be bolted in beside it. The auto has a kick down switch but this can be ignored on the standard.
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#8 LenRobertson

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 07:49 PM

All I woulda got over at the realm is why do you want a manual? We need more info, what color is your car bla bla bla.


I don't want to put down the "other" forums, but Ratsun is where the really cool kids hang out, even some of us that are pretty old kids.

I'm just finishing an auto-to-5-speed swap in my '72 510. It is very doable if you have a bit of mechanical skill and patience. Even if you don't have these, you will by the time you finish the swap! It isn't a one weekend project, at least not the first time you do one. I can pretty much guarantee there will be some minor part you need to get, or a rusty bolt that won't come loose. So plan to allow plenty of time. If everything goes smoothly and you get it done fast, wonderful (go buy a Lotto ticket while you are running lucky).

datzenmike gave a good summary of what to expect. It is worth going back through the several pages of the Drivetrain category and reading any posts that look like they relate to 5-speeds or tranny swaps. A lot of the stuff will be repeat info, but you will also learn some important details. For instance, the bolt that holds the pedal arm for either clutch or brake (almost certain it is brake) is backward thread, turn clockwise to loosen it. I've read of guys not knowing this and twisting the bolt off turning it the wrong direction. If you get a pedal set, try to get the bolts that go with them. Pedals from a 610 will work in a 510; not sure about a 710. Finding pedals should be the first thing to do. They aren't impossible to find, but tougher than the trans, flywheel, and other bits. Jump on the ones quik510 offered, unless he wants a million $ for them. The gas pedal has a different angle for stick or auto cars. I've left the auto gas pedal in my 510 for now. It looks like it will work, but is very close to the brake pedal.

I used the FS5W63A 5-speed (aka "dogleg") in my car. Some guys don't like this cause the shift pattern is different, but it is what I have in my 200SX so I'm used to it. And I didn't want to have my driveline shortened with an extra $100 or so expense. Some of the 280Z/ZX trans have a very tall 1st gear that is supposed to be hard to get going from a standing start with a stock 510 engine.

Len

#9 qwik510

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 03:38 AM

510 auto pedal on left, manual pedal on right.

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Also, I've determined, I'm not a hoarder, I'm a collector.
As I'm sure a lot of the old school datsun guys are.



Enjoy the Ride!


David



1972 Datsun 510(Pete Brock's 510)
1977 Datsun 620 King Cab (Barn Find)

#10 datzenmike

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:17 AM

So you could just bend it over.
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#11 erikcarter

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 02:06 PM

I did a swap in my 72 goon and it was pretty easy, I got a parts car that was a manual and went to town. as far as the gas pedal, I didn't realize there was a difference until after I got rid of the parts car so mine still has the automatic pedal it is a little tight on the clutch but you get used to it
anything with a motor will give me trouble!

#12 pxssy.destroyer

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 06:56 PM

3/ any FS5W71B from '77-'79 620, '77-'83 280z and zx, '80 720 2wd or '79-'84 Maxima. Drive shaft will need to be shortened and rear mount modified. Shifter hole must be relocated 5-6" further back and you need a longer speedometer cable.

#13 pxssy.destroyer

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:01 PM

What modifications do I need to do for the rear need? I bought a 1980 280zx for parts. Im not sure what parts I can use for the swap and what parts I cannot. Will I be able to use the 280 drive shaft? It also sort of seems like i cannot use the pedals from the 280 after pulling it out and having a better look at it.

#14 datzenmike

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 08:15 PM

Well if the '80zx is a standard, you can use the close ratio 5 speed from it. Get the shifter and dust boot also. The clutch master (with push rod from pedal, and slave and maybe the hard and flex line between them.... and that's about it.
 
The zx pedals won't fit but if you can bend them or weld you may be able to cobble something together.
 
Have your 510 driveshaft shortened. The difference between the automatic length and the 71B will be about 5.5" but confirm this. No mods to the rear end a shortened 510 drive shaft will work on the zx 5 speed.
 
The 510 automatic has the speedometer on the right side so it should easily reach the 5 speed which is on the same side.
 
You need...
Clutch and brake pedals if you can't make them.
5 bolt to crank flywheel from L16 or L18 (and the mounting and pressure plate bolts)
200mm clutch and pressure plate. Try to get one that includes the release collar and bearing.
Pilot bushing pressed into the end of the crankshaft.
 
You can still buy the 71B cross member conversion, or make your own.
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#15 edekalil

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:47 PM

I changed two cars I had automatics in to stick. Just used a 510 stock 4 speed with mount, had to find a clutch pedal, cut the shifter hole in the floor and drill 2 holes in the floor and add bolts washers and nuts for the trans mount, also a clutch master cylinder and slave,a hydraulic line from the master to the slave, also a flywheel w/ bolts. I did not do anything to the gas pedal but I will have to look at the ones I have next time I go up. If you have a doner car that would be good. If you do the xox 5 speed you will have to shorten the drive shaft as well. Mike looks like he's got it covered in detail above, Anyway good luck.

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#16 tr8er

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:29 AM

One thing to add. I did this conversion and if I recall the speedo cable on my Borg Warner 35 was on the drivers side. The 5 speed zx trans was on the passenger side. I could be wrong, and it's not a big detail, but you might double check that one. Also, I had the column shifter that was cool, but was a bunch of stuff that I removed making the throttle linkage change because the overdrive switch had no purpose anymore. So I installed a throttle cable.

It's all relatively easy stuff. It took me a few weekends to do, but I was not rushing at all. Took on one task at a time.

#17 banzai510(hainz)

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:00 PM

techno toy tuning has a x members


Throw on some Weber sidedrafts, Rising Sun hood.... call it good

#18 Draker

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:43 PM

^^ And they are affordable too


View my 69 510 4dr Sedan - Build Thread
View my 71 510 2dr Sedan - Coming soon.

http://drakers.pl510.info

 

 


#19 datzenmike

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:10 PM

My 710 had the F4W63L 4 speed, same dimensions as the 510 4 speed. I unclipped the speedometer cable from the body tabs on the under side of the driver's floor and pulled it up into the engine compartment. I then slid it down behind the head, diagonally over the top of the '79zx 71B 5 speed that I had put in. The cable fits just fine and has been trouble free for years.


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#20 tr8er

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:27 PM

But the 3 speed BW was in the early 510