Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

simple 280zx/510 strut questions


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#21 RoadRace

RoadRace

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 186 posts
  • Location:Winnipeg
  • Cars:Landcruiser

Posted 18 May 2010 - 12:24 PM

Good call Mike! I think you are the first person I have seen anywhere that mentioned the valving of the shocks in question. Taking into account the vehicles they were designed for, the valving is going to vary quite a bit. Replacement KYB GR2's, tho thought of as a basic shock, are valved for bound and rebound differently than a stock 510 insert would be. so depending on what your going for, could be a good, or bad thing.
Anybody ever use the 280z inserts then change up to mr2 or rabbit inserts??? How is the handling now? better? worse? just curious myself as I just picked up some 280zx struts and will be doing coilovers.... :P

the OEM mfg'r for the zx strut is/was Tokico, so based on the fact that they are a good brand, and the valving would be for a heavier car than the 510 (good for comp use), i cleaned them up and put them back in with Redline med weight shock oil and used them. i put the GR2 struts in a year later and they were junk compared to the oem/redline combo.
Fast, Cheap, Reliable - Choose 2.

#22 PurePontiacKid

PurePontiacKid

    n00b

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas
  • Cars:1979 280ZX, 1969 Firebird

Posted 01 June 2010 - 08:40 PM

Anybody ever use the 280z inserts then change up to mr2 or rabbit inserts??? How is the handling now? better? worse? just curious myself as



I know this is kinda late, but I'm using the VW inserts on my car. Koni reds to be exact. they're quite a bit shorter than stock (2.5") 280ZX shocks. For my car, their damping is a bit too soft, but I'm running quite stiff springs and I'm "too low" so I can't really say on how they handle over a stock setup, but I like them alot (some time I'll go to an AutoX and raise the car up and see how they really work ;) )

#23 mklotz70

mklotz70

    Beelzebub

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,573 posts
  • Location:Gresham, OR
  • Cars:'64 Fairlane wgn, '14 Kia Forte EX, '70 521(wife's), '72 521(mine)

Posted 02 June 2010 - 03:23 AM

Has anyone looked into or tried changing the oil in the strut? There's a link on my strut mod thread that takes you to a VW shop where they were shortening the inserts....and they give an idea on changing the oil. You can buy the shock oil at a motorcycle shop. I don't know what stock oil specs are, but if you could get something a bit thicker.....wouldn't that make it stiffer?

PurePont....can you post the make/model/years or part number of the inserts you used? It should get posted in the strut mod thread too. In my searching, when I did that thread...I didn't find any inserts that were that much shorter than 280zx inserts. The 300zx inserts were a bit shorter and they were the same length as the MR2 inserts. They were actually a bit too short on my wgn, but they sure felt good!!
Don't have to be too bright to be me!! :D
Sadly, I prove this nearly everyday!!! :(
www.bluehandsinc.com
youtube.com/bluehandsvideo

#24 Dime Dave

Dime Dave

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,125 posts
  • Location:New Hampshire
  • Cars:Datsuns and Nissans, Many

Posted 02 June 2010 - 05:34 AM

I use the Koni 8610-1437 race inserts in my Datsun 1200 racecar with 225# springs. The exact front corner weights I can't remember, the 450# range comes to mind. They work good on track but may be too stiff for street use. Also, their OD is a friction fit in the Datsun strut tube. Using 200SX struts, I had to remove the paint from the inserts to get them down inside the tube. If there is any weld penetration inside the tube or the slightest misalignment when shortening the tube they will not go.

Below are some dimensions recently posted on the Bluebird List.

The Koni race strut insert dimensions are as follows:
(P/N - Body Length - Stroke)

Single adjustable (top)
8610-1436 - 11.42" - 5.63"
8610-1437 - 13.07" - 6.02"

Double adjustable (top & bottom)
8611-1257 - 11.42" - 5.63"
8611-1258 - 15.39" - 6.22"
8611-1259 - 13.07" - 6.02"

MR2 inserts body lengths.
AW10 front is ~14.5" long
AW10 rear is ~13.5" long
SW20 front is ~13.125" long
SW20 rear is ~14" long

Stock 280zx is ~15" long


Dave Patten
Dunbarton, NH

Dave@FutoFab.com
www.FutoFab.com
 

The Modification Theory -

Once started, all modifications become more complex and take twice the allotted time to finish.
 


#25 Dime Dave

Dime Dave

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,125 posts
  • Location:New Hampshire
  • Cars:Datsuns and Nissans, Many

Posted 02 June 2010 - 05:55 AM

Here is info on the VW Rabbit insert I used years ago. I actually used a KYB back in the day ('88 or so). This data is from the Monroe listing.

Monroe Sensa Trac P/N 72826

Fits:
'75-'84 VW Rabbit, front
'75-'88 VW Scirocco, front
'85-'93 VW Cabiro & Cabriolet, front
'74-'84 VW Jetta I, front
'83-'84 VW GTI, Front

Body length, 12.5"
Travel, 6.25"

Dave Patten
Dunbarton, NH

Dave@FutoFab.com
www.FutoFab.com
 

The Modification Theory -

Once started, all modifications become more complex and take twice the allotted time to finish.
 


#26 banzai510(hainz)

banzai510(hainz)

    L motor God

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,985 posts

Posted 02 June 2010 - 06:12 AM

I dont know if this adds anything but but I had some 280zx Konis installed on my 510 struts. of coarse I had the strut cut down to the 280zx length. But I notice on the cartridge its self there is a spacer/standoff welded on the bottom. Maybe one could cut that off and make the cartridge shorter. or maybe the cartridge casing could break and leak fluid.

GR2s are just a replacement shock from KYB and best to get a better brand or a better KYB. Having a stiff spring and a lame GR2 kinda defeats the purpose.
Throw on some Weber sidedrafts, Rising Sun hood.... call it good

#27 DRIVEN

DRIVEN

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,322 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Cars:yes

Posted 02 June 2010 - 07:44 AM

I run cheap KYB MR2 inserts in cut down 510 housings with cut down stock (I think) 510 springs. It rides OK but I wouldn't take it to the track. In reference to the spacer on the bottom that Hainz referred to; I accidentally cut my housings about 1/4" too short and ended up trimming off the "cup" spacers with no ill effects. Mike mentioned in his thread that those spacers might be so that one insert can be used for several applications by adding different spacers to the bottom. Whether that is true or not, it makes sense.

#28 PurePontiacKid

PurePontiacKid

    n00b

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas
  • Cars:1979 280ZX, 1969 Firebird

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:15 AM

Aight, here's what I used:

Koni PN#: 86 1919

fits all models of '75-'89 Rabbits and Sciroccos.

and this is how they compare to Z31/S130 stuff:
Posted Image
reds are obviously Koni's lol
the upper Tokico HP's are Z31 300ZX front struts (the shorter of the blue ones)
the lower Tokico HP's are S130 280ZX front struts (the longer of the blue ones)

#29 banzai510(hainz)

banzai510(hainz)

    L motor God

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,985 posts

Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:29 AM

Pontiac kid.
Does the VW cap that holds the cartridge down the same as a nissan or does one need to find a cap? I will assume metric threading? Or doesn one need to find a strut tube(top portion to weld on the nissan strut?
Throw on some Weber sidedrafts, Rising Sun hood.... call it good

#30 mklotz70

mklotz70

    Beelzebub

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,573 posts
  • Location:Gresham, OR
  • Cars:'64 Fairlane wgn, '14 Kia Forte EX, '70 521(wife's), '72 521(mine)

Posted 02 June 2010 - 03:45 PM

This info should get added to the strut mod thread for unity :)
Don't have to be too bright to be me!! :D
Sadly, I prove this nearly everyday!!! :(
www.bluehandsinc.com
youtube.com/bluehandsvideo

#31 PurePontiacKid

PurePontiacKid

    n00b

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas
  • Cars:1979 280ZX, 1969 Firebird

Posted 03 June 2010 - 12:47 PM

Pontiac kid.
Does the VW cap that holds the cartridge down the same as a nissan or does one need to find a cap? I will assume metric threading? Or doesn one need to find a strut tube(top portion to weld on the nissan strut?


huh what? you mean the gland nut? The Koni's came with washers to put between the nut and the insert, but I didn't realize I had those until I had sectioned the tubes already and couldn't fit them in. Everything seems to be working fine though, the car drives straight, etc.

here is a comparison between stock tube and not:
Posted Image
I did have to drill the upper mount hold a bit larger to fit the shock rod (lol can't think of the name) and use some spacers to take up the gap between the nut and the mount, but all of this should be fixed when/if I get camber plates.

#32 banzai510(hainz)

banzai510(hainz)

    L motor God

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,985 posts

Posted 03 June 2010 - 01:08 PM

yes the Gland Nut the holds the cartridge in.
I assume this nuts come with the koni cartridge and kits the nissan threaded tube?

lets see more photos of these struts as you progress.

I lked up a 75-89 koni insert and they gave difeerent part #s and 86-1919
Throw on some Weber sidedrafts, Rising Sun hood.... call it good

#33 jefe de jefes

jefe de jefes

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,793 posts
  • Location:Fresno County
  • Cars:1959 L210,72 pl521,64 L320,63 NL320,71 510 4Door,72 510 2Door

Posted 03 June 2010 - 11:30 PM

MR2's are 2" shorter than stock 510. I just cut mine down last week.

got a part #?
Posted Image

#34 Chris#51EPGraham

Chris#51EPGraham

    Hall Monitor

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 362 posts
  • Location:Chesapeake Beach, MD
  • Cars:' 89 Toyota PU

Posted 04 June 2010 - 01:12 AM

Has anyone looked into or tried changing the oil in the strut? There's a link on my strut mod thread that takes you to a VW shop where they were shortening the inserts....and they give an idea on changing the oil. You can buy the shock oil at a motorcycle shop. I don't know what stock oil specs are, but if you could get something a bit thicker.....wouldn't that make it stiffer?


I've done just what you described with stock "wet" cartridges using heavier oil, autocrossed
on it the damping worked great. The OEM shock oil is watery thin, guessing 5w or 10w; stock
spring rate is around 80 lb/in. I was running 350 lb/in coilovers and used 30w motorcycle
fork oil. The heavier oil had the desired effect of stiffer damping for a stiffer spring.

Reason I removed this setup was to fix one of the cartridges not seating right that I caused
by using the wrong choice of 0-ring thickness. I intended to reinstall these struts and never
got around to it.

#35 DRIVEN

DRIVEN

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,322 posts
  • Location:USA
  • Cars:yes

Posted 04 June 2010 - 08:12 AM

got a part #?

1986 MR2 rear strut cartridge
KYB #363046

One other note on using this insert; There is a stepped down portion at the top (barely visible in the picture). Since the insert diameter is smaller than the inside of the strut housing, I used a short 3/4" scrap of exhaust tubing as a centering spacer to keep the shaft from rubbing the edge of the hole in the gland nut. Hope that makes sense.
Posted Image

#36 Yakuza

Yakuza

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 899 posts
  • Location:Japan/L.A.

Posted 09 August 2010 - 10:26 PM

I just did this swap on my 510 wagon.
Yes the entire strut [brakes & all] bolts on but...to run the 510 spring youll need to remove the 510 spring perch & weld that to the ZX struts.
Or...run coilovers.
It's reccomended that you run bump steer spacers w/ the ZX struts to keep the suspension geometry close to factory.BTW the spacers should come with longer bolts, if not youll need them.
AS far as moving the wheelbase inwards im not sure.
The stock 510 brake line DOES thread into the ZX caliper.
Also youll need to run at least a 14 inch rim to clear the ZX calipers.


True...

#37 Bears510

Bears510

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 121 posts
  • Location:Phoenix Az
  • Cars:69 510, 54 chevy p/u, 65 mustang,2002 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab

Posted 10 August 2010 - 09:29 AM

Has anyone looked into or tried changing the oil in the strut? There's a link on my strut mod thread that takes you to a VW shop where they were shortening the inserts....and they give an idea on changing the oil. You can buy the shock oil at a motorcycle shop. I don't know what stock oil specs are, but if you could get something a bit thicker.....wouldn't that make it stiffer?


Hey Mike. I would have to assume you are right about adding a thicker oil making the shock stiffer as it's the same idea when you are setting up shocks for R/C cars..you use a thicker/thinner oil to change the dampening on those and it can REALLY change the way a car handles...would be cool to have a couple of sets ready to go and make a tech day out of it...you know...see which one is the best set up for a given application instead of having to buy different shocks for different apps.
There is a Madness to my Method!!!

#38 mklotz70

mklotz70

    Beelzebub

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,573 posts
  • Location:Gresham, OR
  • Cars:'64 Fairlane wgn, '14 Kia Forte EX, '70 521(wife's), '72 521(mine)

Posted 10 August 2010 - 03:46 PM

Would be interesting. I doubt I'll be doing anything with struts anytime soon, but it would be cool to have a couple of sets and change up the oil. I'm not much of a "track day" guy....I'd rather put one set in and run them for a week, then swap them out. 99% of daily driving isn't anything like track conditions....I'd like to see what the difference feels like when you take your mind off the struts.....when you hit that same bump everyday. :)
Don't have to be too bright to be me!! :D
Sadly, I prove this nearly everyday!!! :(
www.bluehandsinc.com
youtube.com/bluehandsvideo

#39 Laecaon

Laecaon

    Mormon? or just moral?

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,035 posts
  • Location:Hillsboro Oregon
  • Cars:71 Wagon decommissioned, 02 BMW 325iT

Posted 22 August 2010 - 12:20 AM

Going on with the strut swap, I was wondering if the brake booster needed to be upgraded in order to use the ZX brakes. Would I want to take the booster off the car I got the struts from(280zx booster)?

Signature.jpg


#40 ohpyramids

ohpyramids

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 223 posts
  • Location:LA CA
  • Cars:71' 510 + 13B Streetport

Posted 22 August 2010 - 05:13 PM

super good info here. thanks.

whats the lowest a stock length 280zx strut can go with coilovers? im not sure if chopping the 280 struts down will be worth the time and hassle. (dont have a welder in LA).